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Old 12-19-2010, 02:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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Communism is a movement and socialism is an economic system. They are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it would be difficult to have one without the other.

Communism is all about a society without classes and without state oversight. It stresses common ownership and distribution based on needs. That is where the socialism comes in, because it dictates how a society could go about implementing this system.

It isn't that communism is 'not humanly possible,' it is just that humans have yet to do it successfully.Maybe as we evolve beyond our predatory, natural 'power-hungry' impulses, we could achieve it... We are not there yet.

Actually humans have essentially done communism successfully. They're called "Amish villages."

But the catch is that there is no progress in communism, because there is no incentive for it. Why would you spend time practicing, inventing, or perfecting anything if there is no reward for it? Might as well catch some extra z's instead of learning and working extra.

Alexander Graham Bell wouldn't have invented the telephone if America was communist. Bill Gates wouldn't have invented Microsoft. There is no such thing as "investing" in communism because why would you invest with no reward?

Communism is basically the antithesis of progress. It is a static state. For people who think communism is such a great idea, you could definitely hit up an Amish village. They're very receptive and welcoming. But the truth is you like capitalism. You like being on the computer and having electricity and a car and a microwave. So maybe don't complain just cuz you wanna throw stones at "the man" and "the establishment" etc.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:07 AM   #17
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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Overstating things a bit? I suppose you would label the US a 'tyranny'? It certainly isn't anarchy.

The problem with that stance is that tyranny implies an absolute ruler or dictator. The way that our checks and balances work, that isn't possible here. Congress can literally render the executive branch useless. If it is tyranny, who is the dictator?

The US is certainly a tyranny. The government has thousands, probably millions in all of laws, codes, ordinances, regulations etc that are backed by force. How is a "dictator" necessary when I can be legally killed for sufficiently resisting a parking ticket. The existence of a state that claims the use of force is in and of itself tyrannical by default. The end result is the same regardless of its organization.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:07 AM   #18
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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Originally Posted by CMsam
Actually humans have essentially done communism successfully. They're called "Amish villages."

But the catch is that there is no progress in communism, because there is no incentive for it. Why would you spend time practicing, inventing, or perfecting anything if there is no reward for it? Might as well catch some extra z's instead of learning and working extra.

Alexander Graham Bell wouldn't have invented the telephone if America was communist. Bill Gates wouldn't have invented Microsoft. There is no such thing as "investing" in communism because why would you invest with no reward?

Communism is basically the antithesis of progress. It is a static state. For people who think communism is such a great idea, you could definitely hit up an Amish village. They're very receptive and welcoming. But the truth is you like capitalism. You like being on the computer and having electricity and a car and a microwave. So maybe don't complain just cuz you wanna throw stones at "the man" and "the establishment" etc.


I like the 'throwing stones' comment. Who threw stones? I'm happy with our system (although improvements could be made), but it IS NOT a purely capitalistic society (nor should it be).

Also, the idea that progress is only motivated by currency is a fallacy. One of the most important scientific discoveries of the last century was Jonas Salk's polio vaccine and he literally patented it and gave it away for free. Believe it or not, there are people in the world that are motivated by things besides a bank account.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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How is a "dictator" necessary when I can be legally killed for sufficiently resisting a parking ticket.
...because the definition of a 'tyranny' includes a dictator with absolute power. If it doesn't exist in our society, it isn't a tyranny.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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I like the 'throwing stones' comment. Who threw stones? I'm happy with our system (although improvements could be made), but it IS NOT a purely capitalistic society (nor should it be).

Also, the idea that progress is only motivated by currency is a fallacy. One of the most important scientific discoveries of the last century was Jonas Salk's polio vaccine and he literally patented it and gave it away for free. Believe it or not, there are people in the world that are motivated by things besides a bank account.


Sure, like you would break your ass working on something if you didnt knew there is some economic reward after it.

Please.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:10 AM   #21
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

bunch a pseudo idiot savant savagery up in this piece.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:10 AM   #22
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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Sure, like you would break your ass working on something if you didnt knew there is some economic reward after it.

Please.
Actually, yes I would... And I have.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:11 AM   #23
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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Actually, yes I would... And I have.

Illustrate me, im seriously not being sarcastic. Tell me what you would do with no economic reward and what you actually "did".
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:14 AM   #24
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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Illustrate me, im seriously not being sarcastic. Tell me what you would do with no economic reward and what you actually "did".
Volunteer tutor at a local inner-city high school, preparing students for ACTs, SATs and OGTs... And sometimes just random homework. There is literally no reward in it for me, aside from seeing kids receive their high school diplomas and go to college.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:16 AM   #25
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack


I like the 'throwing stones' comment. Who threw stones? I'm happy with our system (although improvements could be made), but it IS NOT a purely capitalistic society (nor should it be).

Also, the idea that progress is only motivated by currency is a fallacy. One of the most important scientific discoveries of the last century was Jonas Salk's polio vaccine and he literally patented it and gave it away for free. Believe it or not, there are people in the world that are motivated by things besides a bank account.
No, he refused to patent it.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:17 AM   #26
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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No, he refused to patent it.
Yes, you are correct. He refused to patent it because he did not want to attain wealth from its development. Error on my part.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:19 AM   #27
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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Volunteer tutor at a local inner-city high school, preparing students for ACTs, SATs and OGTs... And sometimes just random homework. There is literally no reward in it for me, aside from seeing kids that I helped receive their high school diplomas and go to college.


Fair enough, if this is true (which I think it is since I dont see you as a liar and actually respect you as a poster) then nothing to knock on you, but you failed to realize one thing: not everybody is like you . Is it a shame? partly. Is it a reality? yes.

But im going to be honest, if I was some kind of scientific genius and cared to work on some new project or whatever, I wouldnt do it just for the sake of "helping mankind", making money and feeling I actually received a real reward for it is more important to me.

But CMsam`s point wasnt even that anyway, we talking about a whole different animal here. If people actually lived under communism nobody would have the motivation or incentive to try and do "serious and better shit" since no matter what you do or create you will always remain equal to the rest.

And that my sir, is bullshit. No matter how you look at it.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:24 AM   #28
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack


I like the 'throwing stones' comment. Who threw stones? I'm happy with our system (although improvements could be made), but it IS NOT a purely capitalistic society (nor should it be).

Also, the idea that progress is only motivated by currency is a fallacy. One of the most important scientific discoveries of the last century was Jonas Salk's polio vaccine and he literally patented it and gave it away for free. Believe it or not, there are people in the world that are motivated by things besides a bank account.

You appeared to be throwing stones with the comment that man hasn't achieved a communist society because we're too predatory and greedy etc.

Anyway, the example of the polio vaccine is misleading. Why did Jonas Salk become a doctor in the first place? Why didnt he just raise chickens? Maybe it was because he genuinely wanted all the extra schooling, but for most people its the financial security. He gave away the polio vaccine in altruism, but thats more the exception than the norm.

Also, volunteering your time is not the same as creating something. It's nice, but doesn't illustrate how communism advances progress. Because it just doesn't. Sure, a lot of things are invented by accident, and might thus be used, but you'd basically be living in an Amish village. You'd have to be, because all the jobs have to be of equal value and importance or else people wouldnt do them all for equal pay.

Why be a cop and risk your life if you can sit at a cash register? In our society its because at the register you make 8 bucks an hour, and as a cop you make 60k a year. Why would someone do it in a communist society tho?

I know you said you like the system we have, but you make it sound as if communism is the ideal scenario. It's really not, because its not like something we can work towards. It's an impossible scenario in modern society that most people wouldnt even want if they understood what it would really be like.

Last edited by CMsam : 12-19-2010 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:28 AM   #29
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMsam
You appeared to be throwing stones with the comment that man hasn't achieved a communist society because we're too predatory and greedy etc.

Anyway, the example of the polio vaccine is misleading. Why did Jonas Salk become a doctor in the first place? Why didnt he just raise chickens? Maybe it was because he genuinely wanted all the extra schooling, but for most people its the financial security. He gave away the polio vaccine in altruism, but thats more the exception than the norm.

Also, volunteering your time is not the same as creating something. It's nice, but doesn't illustrate how communism advances progress. Because it just doesn't. Sure, a lot of things are invented by accident, and might thus be used, but you'd basically be living in an Amish village. You'd have to be, because all the jobs have to be of equal value and importance or else people wouldnt do them all for equal pay.

Why be a cop and risk your life if you can sit at a cash register? In our society its because at the register you make 8 bucks an hour, and as a cop you make 60k a year. Why would someone do it in a communist society tho?

I know you said you like the system we have, but you make it sound as if communism is the ideal scenario. It's really not, because its not like something we can work towards. It's an impossible scenario in modern society that most people wouldnt even want if they understood what it would really be like.


This.


Actually nowadays most communists are mainly 14-18 year old teenagers with the brain filled of "idealist and saving the world" thoughts.

Nobody with half a brain or with some sort of maturity believes or supports communism, and if they do they actually lieing to your face cause they just as capitalist as anybody, if not more.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:29 AM   #30
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Default Re: Im a communist and a good person

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...because the definition of a 'tyranny' includes a dictator with absolute power. If it doesn't exist in our society, it isn't a tyranny.

Thats really just a semantical argument. If you like I'll frame it this way. Theres two governmental systems coercive and non-coercive. I don't see a distinction between systems based on force.

Last edited by RoTM : 12-19-2010 at 03:32 AM.
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