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Old 12-20-2010, 02:37 PM   #1
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Default Our Future

So I was thinking...now that the win streak is over and reality has shown it's ugly head,what lies in our future.I asked myself these questions so I'll ask you.

1.If we don't get Melo,where do we go from there?I really think Melo is a must grab.Even more so than LeBron.He's the last pure scorer available for a while and we really need one.Additionally,I think wherever Melo goes,Chris Paul is sure to follow.I find it hard to imagine that Utah loses Derron Williams.We realy need to get this done if we plan on winning a playoff series any time soon.This current roster needs more than just a player or two.We need another star.Amare is going to be burned out by the end of the year.

2.Who's Plan B if we don't get Melo? I say Josh Smith,which is a huge step down IMO but he'd fill our need for a shot blocker perfectly.Then we'd have to go out and get a perimeter scorer because I dont trust Gallo or Chandler to be our 2nd option offensively.

3.Are you comfortable with Allan Houston taking over the helm once Walsh leaves? (which seems to be in the near future). I'd say absolutely not.Remember that Houston was a key contributor to our financial woes in the past.He refused to retire and take the strangle hold that was his contract off of us.

4.If we don't end up getting anyone (star caliber talent),has Walsh's tenure been a failure and should he be on the hot seat?I say yes.Sure he's cleared cap but it isn't like we traded for equal talent.What he did was mathematics...not bargaining really. That being said.I commend him for it if it yields big time talent but if we tanked 2 seasons and get only Amare in return to be proud about...that's not cool.Especially when I still don't completely believe Isaiah didnt have anything to do with Amare being here. Not buying that one.

5.If not Allan Houston (which I hope not),who's our GM of the future?I'm very pro Pritchard.He has a eye for young,underrated talent.He wheels and deals on draft night and unlike the T-Wolves,he doesnt get a team full of the same position.

6.Who's our coach of the future?I'm damn sure not comfortable with D'Antoni.My first choice would be Sam Mitchell.I've heard Mike Brown.Not sure how I feel about him.He has folded under crucial circumstances but he also had an amazing record.Not sure whether he was merely a product of having LeBron or whether he had a strong impact in that locker room.He was a student of Popovich,whose an amazing coach.Arguably the best in the league.

7.If we strike out with Paul and D Will but get Melo or another big time scorer,can we trust Felton enough to compete? I'm not sure about this one.A year ago woulda said hell no.I've always thought he was overrated since UNC but you can just look past his numbers.He's having a career year BUT he's also extremely erratic and out of control.I'd personally trade him for a guy like Jameer Nelson but or Ty Lawson.We'd probably have leverage and may be able to get their respective teams to throw in a solid bench player.leading me to my last point

8.Would you do this overhauling deal?
Ty Lawson, Melo, JR Smith, Birdman,Gary Forbes

for

Chandler,Gallinari,Anthony Randolph,Timofey Mozgov,Raymond Felton,Toney Douglas,Ronny Turiaf

I'd do it!
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:09 PM   #2
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Default Re: Our Future

1 & 2. I agree, we need another star right now. To me Paul would be perfect (even more than Melo). Anyone else would be a step down (I'm assuming D-Will or Dwight Howard are not willing to change franchise) and Josh Smith being the next best viable option is rather disquieting, but he probably is. We wouldn't become a contender in this case anyways. I'd rather have Robin Lopez then, who is cheaper (of course worse than Smith, but he fills our need).

3 & 5. Tbh I have no idea. From here, I'm not familiar with GMs expect the most well known ones.

4. Yes, definitely.

6. I am not enthusiast about Mitchell, and don't like Mike Brown at all. Unless I missed something, Jeff Van Gundy is available and proven already. Otherwise, Mike Fratello? And Pat Ewing would be intriguing. All three would be defensive-minded, that's what I like from a coach.

7. An upgrade at PG is our biggest need right after finding a legit defensive C. If we somehow landed Dwight Howard (...) then I'd be happy with Felton

8. So we basically turn into the Nuggets +Amare -Billups -Nene?
Lawson / ?
Fields / Smith
Anthony / Forbes / Walker
Amar'e / Forbes / Williams
Birdman / ?

No depth, no outside shooting... I'm dubious...

Last edited by Jasi : 12-20-2010 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: Our Future

1. We gotta get Melo, if there's anyone on our roster outside of Amar'e make the deal happen.

2. If not Melo get some solid role players or a big in the summer don't go out and overpay some random guys that can drop 20PPG with 20 shots. The team has good chemistry we don't really need more scoring we need a bench and a few defensive presences.

3. What does Allan Houstons player contract have to do with what kind of GM he would be? That's like saying Phil Jackson wouldn't be a good coach because he was a scrub when he played, COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. He may even learn from the mistake the Knicks made on him.

4. I think he has put together a pretty solid team you just have to give him some more time but I think if we don't get Melo he'll bring in some solid role players to bolster the bench and make us a solid playoff team.

5. I'm good with Pritchard as well.

6. If the team is constructed the same as now I'm much more confortable with Coach D'Antoni, maybe Lawrence Frank would be nice.

7. I think Ray has been great I would definitely trust him with Amar'e and Melo, CP3 or Williams would be nice but with those 3(Felton Melo Amar'e) and a solid 8 man rotation I think we could be a serious contender, more than getting 1 of those guys I'd like to get a good defensive big to fill Amar'es holes.

8. Seriously bro trade the Knicks with out Amar'e for The Nuggets? That's like a 20 win team they wouldn't do it and I don't think anyone has traded entire teams to eachother.

On a side note nothing to do with any of your points I think that when Randolph finally gets his PT when he learns the system he'll be a pretty good role player sorta like a Josh Smith just give him some time he's still extremely young and his athletisicm isn't going anywhere for a while. I'd really like to keep em.
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: Our Future

I'll just answer #2.

If we don't get Melo, we need to go for Dwight Howard. He is gonna leave Orlando eventually. They are making all these moves in an effort to keep him, but it will end up backfiring on them in the end since they won't win. He is gonna be available at the end of next year. If we were able to line up Dwight and Amar'e, along with 1 other scorer, I would say it would be one of the most formidable front courts of all time.
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Old 12-20-2010, 08:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: Our Future

Great post.

8. I would exclude Fields but yes I would do that trade. Birdmans a fan favorite.

We'll be the New York Nuggets.
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Old 12-20-2010, 09:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: Our Future

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
3.Are you comfortable with Allan Houston taking over the helm once Walsh leaves? (which seems to be in the near future). I'd say absolutely not.Remember that Houston was a key contributor to our financial woes in the past.He refused to retire and take the strangle hold that was his contract off of us.[/b]


So because he refused to retire because he had a lot of money coming his way, that automatically qualifies him as a bad manager? Would you have not done the exact same thing in his position? That doesn't even have anything to do with HIS management skills, at all. The man took the money that he was owed. That doesn't mean anything when it comes to being a manager. I think that was an unfair point but other then that it was a good read.

I would much rather have Pritchard than Houston but calling Houston a bad fit because he did what anyone else wouldve done is borderline ridiculous.

Last edited by Bano114 : 12-20-2010 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: Our Future

The post above is completely right, I would of done the same thing he was in a situation as a player not as an executive.
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:27 AM   #8
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Default Re: Our Future

My thing is,if a player comes with a ridiculous contract demand to be overpaid or doesnt wanna be bought out....couldnt they use that against him?If you were overpaid,wouldnt it be hard to begrudge a guy from being overpaid?Similarly,wouldnt your idea of "too much" be a lil off or do most players know they've been overpaid? It was just a question anyway.Didnt think it would cause so much uproar.

As for the depth in the proposed trade n lack of shooting.JR Smith shoots like 40% from three and its not hard to go out and get another shooter n role players.

I dont see us getting Dwight.Something catastrophic would have to happen in Orlando.

N the proposed trade isnt the entire nuggets roster or ours.I dont think it's inconceivable.We're getting their backup pg,backup sg,backuppf and backup wing player along with Melo for our starting sf starting pf starting pg and role players.

N i never said Houston was a bad fit becuz of wat he did as a player.I just said i dont want him.I cant remember the last time we've had a good gm.Im not even sure we've had one in my lifetime.I dont wanna try another unproved one out.I want a guy who brings player I can get excited about. Not a guy whose gonna bring in a bunch of role players and try to convince me that they are great team players on and off the court.
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Old 12-21-2010, 04:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Our Future

first and foremost, after we get melo, or even if we don't get melo, we need to go get a center. chandler is too short and weak.

at this point in time, i wud just throw what i can for melo (who is allowing the knicks a chance to get him at his asking price, no way he will leave 65 mil on the table and walk), we can use a legit #2 who can take pressure off amare and vice versa. gallinari and chandler does not create enough spacing for amare to work. guys are double/triple teaming him because those two are not consistent.

its like comparing amare with david lee...we've seen how much of and impact amare has been compared to what david lee used to bring and how amare commands more respect on the court...
same can be said when comparing melo to galo/chandler...just his presence will lift this team higher

Last edited by bluechox2 : 12-21-2010 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:23 AM   #10
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Default Re: Our Future

I agree with most of your post.Its funny though because remember there were people here that questioned whether Amare would really be an upgrade over Lee? I swear we've been so bad for so long now that when good stuff happens or players look good on the court,we get mighty full of ourselves lol

That being said,we really need Melo.I love Amare being here.He's a class act off the court and a beast on the court.He's made us relevant to an extent but that will be short lived if we dont get another scorer here.I think Knick fans like that we had that win streak but no1 really takes us seriously yet.Whether you are a fan of Gallo (like alot of you are),or Chander (like me and a few other guys are) or Fields or whoever...I think we need to come to the realization that these guys just are not Melo.We need Melo even more so than we needed LeBrick.If we don't get him,there arent many options after.Even if we luck up and get Dwight,I'm not sure it helps up better than getting Melo.Sure Dwight isnt polished on the offensive end,but a guy who's most likely gonna get the max salary,isnt going to not want to shoot.He's gonna want the ball and like Shaq,I'm not sure if he won't get in Amare's way.Not to say I wouldnt take him if we had the chance,but I think Melo makes more sense. I would also like Chris Paul.What he did with Chandler (Tyson) would be multiplied with Amare.Not only would it make things easier for him but it would cut down on Amare's turnovers.Felton gives Amare the ball to high.Amare isnt as fluid with his dribble as say a Chris Bosh.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:03 AM   #11
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Default Re: Our Future

i agree on the chris paul part, for instance if felton is giving a pass from teh free throw line, on the same play chris paul would of been 2 step in with a better pass. I seen paul play and hsi passing is crisp.

felton does lob the ball too much when hes unsure to amare which makes it easier to steal like we have seen repeatedly. And when hes really unsure, he hand the ball like 20 feet out and tells amare to go iso.

if we loose out on melo, knicks better make a serious pitch at stern to trade paul to the knicks

Last edited by bluechox2 : 12-21-2010 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Our Future

That whole NBA owning the Hornets thing is messed up in my opinion.I think it will affect trade moves.If a team offers a talent but they arent marketable,I doubt Stern is gonna let it go down.I cant see them being in charge of a New Jersey Nets type team where even if they do start winning,the fan base wont pick up unless they have a superstar.
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:36 AM   #13
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Default Re: Our Future

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
1.If we don't get Melo,where do we go from there? ....Additionally,I think wherever Melo goes,Chris Paul is sure to follow.
This fan base needs to give up on the dream of Chris Paul. The NBA is looking for a buyer for the Hornets. Would you be willing to pony up your cash for a Paul-less Hornets team?

Right now Carmelo Anthony is an upgrade of a working part. If the Knicks strike out on a trade they need to focus on plugging a hole. Look at adding a better bench depth. The PG, Wing, and Big off the bench are going to let this club down in the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
2.Who's Plan B if we don't get Melo?
Off the top of my head? Caron Butler and David West are free agents this summer. I'd see what type of money they'd asking for. Not necessarily as a pair though.

With D'Antoni coaching Amar'e Stoudemire is locked in at the C spot. West brings enough shooting and on-ball skills that Pringles might just be open to playing West at the 4 along side STAT.

Butler SEEMS to have adjusted his game and is no longer prone to his occassional "I'm going to take this game over" ineffective streak he had with the Wizards. I actually have tix to the Mavs game against the Wizards so I'll have to keep you guys posted on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
3.Are you comfortable with Allan Houston taking over the helm once Walsh leaves?
Have no feeling on it either way. That job is one where you won't know how a guy does until you see how he does.

Also Houston did retire. The issue is that the way the rules are set up insurance had to pay the contract but it still counts against the Knicks cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
4.If we don't end up getting anyone (star caliber talent),has Walsh's tenure been a failure and should he be on the hot seat?
Not quite a failure but not a major success. More like a small shaky step in the right direction.

Walsh simply did what the media would have killed Isiah Thomas for if Thomas admitted it was his plan. I'm still amused that people don't realize Thomas had the exact same intent as Walsh. Do people really believe it's a coincidence that most of Thomas' Knick team would have come off the book this summer or last and many of them had ties to LeBron or LeBron's inner circle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
5.If not Allan Houston (which I hope not),who's our GM of the future?
I'm not a Kevin Pritchard fan. For all the props he gets for the Trailblazers, what has that team actually done? Plus once players found out about his attempts at "blackballing" Darius Myles, they soured on him. I doubt he'd be able to sign a guy without overpaying significantly.

I'd actually look at getting Sam Presti's assistant out in Oklahoma City, Troy Weaver. They have developed an excellent track record with the draft and Weaver is the guy in charge of that. I'd take a chance and see if they have developed a scouting routine that can work here.

Also, Weaver is not a name thrown around a lot and as an assistant getting the big job he'd be cheaper than an established name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
6.Who's our coach of the future?
I'm not a Mike D'Antoni fan.

I'd look at Don Newman, assistant with the Spurs. He has head coaching experience, and a masters degree in education so there is a chance that he could really get the younger guys to buy into what he is selling.

I'd just really hammer him on his offensive stuff during interviews. The Spurs defensive game-plan is not close to as intricate as people pretend it is. I want to make sure that Newman can coach both sides of the floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
7.If we strike out with Paul and D Will but get Melo or another big time scorer,can we trust Felton enough to compete?
Felton is a real PG. He understands spacing, tempo, and proper defensive rotations. Individually Felton plays tough defense and makes PG's work. Outside of the elite guys at the position I can't think of a PG that would be better for the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
8.Would you do this overhauling deal?
Ty Lawson, Melo, JR Smith, Birdman,Gary Forbes

for

Chandler,Gallinari,Anthony Randolph,Timofey Mozgov,Raymond Felton,Toney Douglas,Ronny Turiaf
Hell no. You destroy the roster and end up with the same underachieving core that is in Denver.

Last edited by Da KO King : 12-22-2010 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:57 AM   #14
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Default Re: Our Future

Quote:
Hell no. You destroy the roster and end up with the same underachieving core that is in Denver.


Everybody keeps saying that but it's not that at all.We'd still have Amare.We'd still have Fields.Didnt the Nuggets go to the Western Conference Finals with the same "underachieving core"?They gave LA a run for their money.You to tell me it wouldnt have been an even closer series with Amare instead of NeNe?


Ty Lawson
JR or Landry
Melo
Amare
Birdman

All we would need is a backup point guard and some role players.Who'd be able to score with us?

Quote:
Walsh simply did what the media would have killed Isiah Thomas for if Thomas admitted it was his plan. I'm still amused that people don't realize Thomas had the exact same intent as Walsh. Do people really believe it's a coincidence that most of Thomas' Knick team would have come off the book this summer or last and many of them had ties to LeBron or LeBron's inner circle?

PPL act like Walsh made all of their contracts end @ the same time also lol.

Quote:
I'd look at Don Newman, assistant with the Spurs. He has head coaching experience, and a masters degree in education so there is a chance that he could really get the younger guys to buy into what he is selling.

Repped for doing your homework.I hate when ppl get up here and argue points with a simple "because I said so" answer.You aren't my mother lmao
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: Our Future

We're one of the youngest teams in the league. We probably won't be top contenders but with an addition of a couple decent role players we should still be a solid playoff team which isn't that bad.

Chandler has room to grow, Gallo will get more consistent and Fields just needs to extend his range. Felton and Amare are legit starters.

If Melo ends up getting traded before the deadline we can dump some of our expiring contracts for role players with longer deals. And if not we'll have money to spend on a legit backup center and point guard.

Here's who we can go after in '11 FA:
Tyson Chandler
Tayshaun Prince
Jamal Crawford
Carl Landry
Joel Przybilla
Mike Dunleavy

Chandler would perfect in D'antonis offense and we could probaby get him for around 6-7mil (unless Cuban decides to shower another center with a 5 year 50mil deal)
I wouldn't mind bringing Crawford back, he'd be the perfect spark off the bench.
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