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Old 01-03-2011, 09:03 PM   #16
tamaraw08
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

Around March last year, John Ireland said he gives up, he thought he knows the Lakers, that they will put it together by March but alas, they lost so many questionable games, arguabley the worst 20 final games under Phil Jackson.
Lost to Miami, blown out by Chalotte, lost again to Orlando, 3 game losing streak.
Got butchered by the young OKC in March 26, lost to the terrible Hornets then got slaughtered by Atlanta then
losses to Spurs, Nugs, Blazers and Clippers.
whoah, bad losses and yet win the championship? They might be thinking they can lose more games and then flip the proverbial switch.
it's like my wife spending more time in putting more make up and still make it on time for the party by flooring the gas pedal and perhaps run a few stop lights.
I can almost imagine PHil handing out the secret memo to "take it easy" during the exit meetings. Phil has been half asleep for the past 3 years.
Artest and Fish surely got the message.
Bynum almost jump with joy but remembered that he has a bum knee, so he rolled his wheel chair to Africa and delayed surgery.
They mailed the memo to Pau in Spain but there was a mixed up. Pau registered mvp stats in the first 2 weeks then he eventually got a hold of the memo in LA.
Odom got the memo but bec he smoked too many funny cigarrettes in his Clipper games he forgot. Then he played under Coach K in the US team and played his tail off, slowly tho he remembered the memo.
Barnes and Blake didn't know about the memo but realized lately how laid back everybody are in practice they scratched their heads then Shannon showed his memo.
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

I think I kind of see what DKLaker is saying, and I somewhat agree with one thing he said.

Honestly, as much as we like Phil Jackson, I think it is the right timing for him to retire after this year. I think the Lakers need some sort of change, and I don't think it is the personal change we are talking about but the coaching staff change. Phil has done VERY well had a Laker head-coach but every chapter must come to an end. I am not blaming Phil for what is happening with this team, but realize that it is tough to be coached by the same person most of your career or at least 5-6+ years.

I know some people will take this post as insulting/belittling Phil and me blaming him for everything that is happening with the Lakers. That is NOT what I am saying and it is NOT my point, I just want people to merely understand that every great team needs to make changes, whether it is personal or coaching. Usually it is a personal change, but it is tough for the Lakers to make a personal change at this point w/ the salaries in mind (we already did make a few personal changes over the last 5 years). I think it is a perfect time for the Lakers to make the coaching change at the end of this season and to move in a different path.

As SoCal said, players were starting to get bored by Riley with his fiery attitude, I think the same may be happening with Phil. We need somebody fiery (the opposite of Phil) to come in and light a fire under the current Laker team starting next season once Phil retires. Challenge the Laker players a bit and put some pressure on them to see how the Lakers perform when push is turned into a shove, pull out every pulp out of them before the next rebuilding stage once Kobe is old and 3rd or 4th option, close to retiring. We have about 5 years of halfway decent Kobe left. Find a coach that will challenge Kobe like Phil did when he first was hired by the Lakers. I don't think Phil can challenge Kobe anymore like a new coach would be able to.

Of course, the new coach has to be respected somewhat around the league and have something to back up his bark with a ring or something before he is hired by the Lakers. I don't know right now who would fit that category.
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:54 PM   #18
SoCalMike
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

I continue to be amused with the pages and pages of comments regarding this Laker team....

If you really want change, be careful what you wish for... you are not seeing the whole picture.

This is the "greener pastures" attitude....



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Old 01-03-2011, 10:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

At this point, things can only get better. The talent is there and once upon a time, so was the chemistry. Some time and trust is all it take for a team like this to gel towards a good playoff run. If LA is still a top 3 seed in the West with no injuries, they can beat anyone in the West.

As Mike has hammered into us, patience is the key. Barring something like a 10 game losing streak, there won't be any panic by the coaching staff or FO. Give it time.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:27 PM   #20
gts
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
I continue to be amused with the pages and pages of comments regarding this Laker team....

If you really want change, be careful what you wish for... you are not seeing the whole picture.

This is the "greener pastures" attitude....



yep, this.. any thought phil has lost this team is just wishing by folks who have problems with him already...

btw

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angele...ory?id=5985885

Quote:
"When a game starts getting out of hand -- and rightly so -- Kobe will crank it up, not screw it up," Jackson said. "I used that term 'screw it up' but not in terms of it being an error or a mistake, but 'crank it up.' He'll go to another notch to try to get us back in the ballgame. That's something we do in the fourth quarter, that's our fourth quarter action, that's how we win ballgames. To have to crank it up and do that in the third quarter, we didn't have much left in the gas tank after that." - Phil Jackson
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:34 PM   #21
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
I continue to be amused with the pages and pages of comments regarding this Laker team....

If you really want change, be careful what you wish for... you are not seeing the whole picture.

This is the "greener pastures" attitude....




Not to sound harsh or anything, but what do you recommend? Do you think Phil and the triangle offense is perfect? Bro, I continue to be amused that you are so stubborn lol. I agree that Phil has been great with the Lakers and he has done a very good job and I even agree that Phil is arguably the greatest coach EVER, but like I said not everything lasts forever successfully. Even you said "A good coach knows when to push and when not to... coaching with passion all the time can and will wear out one's welcome and I can cite many, many examples, including the "oh passionate one," Riley himself who nearly got run from the Lakers...." If coaching with passion all the time can wear out one's welcome, don't you think the exact opposite can also wear out one's welcome? Phil and Riley are basically the exact opposites in how they coach.

To say that one (coaching w/ visible passion all the time can wear out one's welcome) is right and the other (coaching w/o visible passion all the time can wear out one's welcome) is wrong is a contradiction in itself. Both ways work as we have seen Phil succeed and Riley as well. Neither way is right or wrong, it is about how the team works together throughout the journey (like you said many times). We have seen Phil's methods, lets see how somebody does with a different teaching method that is on the opposite spectrum once Phil is retired and relaxing in his Montana home, away from civilization . All I am saying is that we need somebody to challenge this team and to light a fire under them. We need new life out of these players.

Again, I am NOT bashing Phil anywhere. I am just stating what you said yourself and agreeing with one of DKLaker's points while throwing my own wording/opinion in there. I am just looking at the whole picture while taking into perspective what you/dklaker/me are saying.

BTW - I hope you are reading the whole posts and not just the first couple sentences. I like to develop my thoughts in paragraph forms, if you are just reading the first couple sentences then you are not looking at the whole picture from my perspective and you are not getting the juice of the argument. It is better to not read the post at all than to read a couple sentences and commenting on the whole post based on a couple sentences. Thanks.

Last edited by bladefd : 01-03-2011 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

Nothing at all wrong with Phil's way of coaching....it works, it's the best style for the modern era of basketball.
ANY coach with a set system is going to get tuned out after awhile....it's just human nature, we get bored, we get complacent.
This is why Michael Jordan left to play baseball.....even the ultimate success of winning championships becomes boring if everything stays the same.......just think of having nothing but missionary with your wife for 20 years.....lmao.
Let's say this team were to win the title this year and Phil stayed to go for 4 straight......I sure the hell wouldn't buy a ticket for a regular season game......obviously they would have no reason to play hard.....Phil wouldn't coach them to play hard.......I'd just save my bucks for the games they care about aka...THE PLAYOFFS and FINALS. At that point IMO a fire would need to be lit under them to get them to play the kind of ball we want to watch year round........maybe that new coach would only be effective for 2 years......i'll take it at this point.

Same points Bladefd made.

Last edited by DKLaker : 01-03-2011 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:12 PM   #23
SoCalMike
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladefd
Not to sound harsh or anything, but what do you recommend? Do you think Phil and the triangle offense is perfect? Bro, I continue to be amused that you are so stubborn lol.

I recommend that we all take a deep breath and just let this play itself out... Perhaps I am being stubborn, but I am likely a bit older than you and some of the other posters, and that gives me a tad of wisdom (not intelligence, because you are obviously very intelligent)... but my experience tells me that the Lakers season is far from over and that no drastic changes need to occur.

If you were to do some blog searches, you would see that only a couple of years ago, I got very spun up over the regular season game by game, and the frustration with the poor level of play. I called out the Lakers saying they had no heart, etc... I was wrong then, and I learned from it. My family is grateful because I am much calmer during the regular season (and I don't beat them anymore - haha just kidding) as I truly understand its a journey and there is a lot to bringing a team together and united in a quest for a ring.

So, while I acknowledge that watching the Lakers play is maddening, infuriating and frustrating, I don't think it warrants over reaction as many do... think of it is a battle ship on the ocean...it cannot turn on the dime, and needs a lot of distance to make a turn... the Lakers and this journey are the same way, and it will take them a while to figure it out.. and they will.

Also remember that they are third in the Western conference... its not as if they are in jeopardy of not getting into the playoffs. When the Lakers are pushed with their backs against the wall, they are deadly as we have seen.... again, another reason why I am not worried.

So yes, I am stubborn and I am not going to give into the media hype nor the message board hype that is rampant.

The journey continues and I get it.



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Old 01-03-2011, 11:23 PM   #24
gts
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

btw anyone thinking phil is backtracking on his words and making excuses for using the word "screw" up (this is from the main forum)

here's a quote from 2002 when he used the same word to describe kobe cranking up his game


"He's been dying to get Michael in a one-on-one situation for a few years, and I know that he'll screw it up to that level at some point, but that's not the purpose of that game"

Here is a link for reference:

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020212.html
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:32 PM   #25
SoCalMike
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
btw anyone thinking phil is backtracking on his words and making excuses for using the word "screw" up (this is from the main forum)

here's a quote from 2002 when he used the same word to describe kobe cranking up his game


"He's been dying to get Michael in a one-on-one situation for a few years, and I know that he'll screw it up to that level at some point, but that's not the purpose of that game"

Here is a link for reference:

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020212.html

"crank" or "screw"... must be a montana slang thang.... LOL nice post....
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:04 AM   #26
gts
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
"crank" or "screw"... must be a montana slang thang.... LOL nice post....
could be...just checking and it's an american idiom the example they give is

screw up one's courage
1. To muster or summon up:

Fig. to build up one's courage. I guess I have to screw up my courage and go to the dentist. I spent all morning screwing up my courage to take my driver's test.
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:08 AM   #27
SoCalMike
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
could be...just checking and it's an american idiom the example they give is

screw up one's courage
1. To muster or summon up:

Fig. to build up one's courage. I guess I have to screw up my courage and go to the dentist. I spent all morning screwing up my courage to take my driver's test.

so basically, pjax has a better vocabulary than all of us... so noted!



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Old 01-04-2011, 03:43 AM   #28
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

This season is kind of reminding me of the 2001-2002 season....but worst. lol

Lakers finished 58-24 that season behind the Queens.
They did have a three L streak and never made it over the double digit marker on win streaks.

That year on the way to the Finals it took a what double OT in 7 games to beat the Queens.

Point is...the road in the NBA to win 3 straight...heck to make it to the Finals four times in a row is tough. I think what we are seeing right now is wear and ter on our guys. They have played basically an extra season over most teams in the NBA in the span of 3 years because they went deep in to the Finals each year. I think they just need time to get back in the groove physically and mentally. Once they do that they will be fine. There is a whole lot of season left.

Come on now we know we still have the best product in the NBA when everything is clicking...trust in that!!!!

GO LAKES!!!!!!!
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:20 PM   #29
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

Maybe we should consider some changes in the starting lineup. Fisher and Artest are not earning their minutes and meanwhile we have some guys with more speed on the bench that might serve us better given that teams are basicaly beating us with speed.

I'd love to see Shannon Brown and Matt Barnes either move into the starting lineup or getting starter minutes.
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:02 PM   #30
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Default Re: *****The state of the Lakers*****

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
I recommend that we all take a deep breath and just let this play itself out... Perhaps I am being stubborn, but I am likely a bit older than you and some of the other posters, and that gives me a tad of wisdom (not intelligence, because you are obviously very intelligent)... but my experience tells me that the Lakers season is far from over and that no drastic changes need to occur.

If you were to do some blog searches, you would see that only a couple of years ago, I got very spun up over the regular season game by game, and the frustration with the poor level of play. I called out the Lakers saying they had no heart, etc... I was wrong then, and I learned from it. My family is grateful because I am much calmer during the regular season (and I don't beat them anymore - haha just kidding) as I truly understand its a journey and there is a lot to bringing a team together and united in a quest for a ring.

So, while I acknowledge that watching the Lakers play is maddening, infuriating and frustrating, I don't think it warrants over reaction as many do... think of it is a battle ship on the ocean...it cannot turn on the dime, and needs a lot of distance to make a turn... the Lakers and this journey are the same way, and it will take them a while to figure it out.. and they will.

Also remember that they are third in the Western conference... its not as if they are in jeopardy of not getting into the playoffs. When the Lakers are pushed with their backs against the wall, they are deadly as we have seen.... again, another reason why I am not worried.

So yes, I am stubborn and I am not going to give into the media hype nor the message board hype that is rampant.

The journey continues and I get it.




I agree with most of your post, I also agree that we don't need to make any drastic changes for this Laker season. I was never talking about making changes in the middle of the season. I was talking about next season after Phil retires. I don't think Lakers should bring in somebody that is like Phil - very laidback and seems to lack passion (passion as in yelling at the players and just getting into their faces a lot more). We need somebody that is strict for next season to be able to challenge this team for even more greatness.

Also, the reason why I believe that we need to go in a different path than the zen, relaxing path is because it is a time for change. You, yourself, said that players get tired of the same type of teaching methods by using Riley as an example. I am not even looking at this last 10-15 regular season stretch; that is only the icing on the cake. I am looking back the last few years and seeing that the team needs to go a different path.

Remember the season when Pau first rolled into town. Remember how much energy and hustle the Lakers were playing with in those playoffs? I know we lost to the Celtics in 6, but there was a lot of energy everywhere in regular season AND playoffs. Then in the Magic year, we were almost as vibrant and lively in the playoffs as the year we lost to the Celtics; you could tell that the team wasn't as dominant as the year before throughout the playoffs and seemed to lack focus at times, but it was still very good..

Then you look at last year - yes we won the championship, but if you remember how lethargic the team was at times during the playoffs. I felt like they were starting to tune out Phil at times (not "tune out", too strong of a word; maybe "bored"??); I remember a few instances when Phil would scowl at the players and the players would just walk away without saying anything or even looking at Phil's way since they already knew what Phil would say word-for-word. Overall though, it was good enough to win the championship. Since we won the championship, everyone is quick to forget how bad the team looked at times, whether it was in reg season or playoffs. We almost blew it to the Thunder and then the Suns series was pretty difficult. I also thought we should have lost a couple Jazz games; as much as I hate to say this, we were getting a lot of fouls our way in that series - at least much more so than the Jazz. We would have blown the finals if it wasn't for Fisher having one of his greatest quarters ever to close a game and solid game by Kobe/Pau in another.

This season looks even worse. Team looks even more lethargic and just bored as hell. It is almost as if the teams is fine with 2 rings and it is time to lay back. Did you look at the player's expressions? It was like getting blown out by Memphis and Heat meant little "Oh we will just flip the switch in playoffs. It will be easy when we are desperate in the playoffs."

Unless this team changes how they approach the games and take losses personal, this team won't beat the Spurs.. Nobody is saying that the Lakers need to push everything they have for regular season games, the Spurs sure as hell aren't pushing everything they have. Their big 3 are playing limited minutes compared to what they will be playing in playoffs and they are just rolling over teams. Don't think for a minute that Pop will continue that in the playoffs. He will push in the playoffs, the big 3 will dominate in more playing time.

There is no on or off switch. I don't understand why people think the Lakers can just hit a switch when their backs are pushed against the wall and easily go win a ring with a switch without putting the work in. As I explained, the Lakers are getting more and more bored as the last few seasons go on to the point that they are relaxing, taking it easy on a REGULAR BASIS now. It is one thing to play hard in limited minutes for the starters, but it is another thing to have careless facial expressions on the faces and just not give 2 $hits (Kobe is exception). Nobody is upset or outspoken about it (outside Kobe). Everybody is bored of being winners; these Lakers don't look the same as they did 3 years ago or 2 years ago or even last year. Every year is getting worse and worse. At this pace, what will happen next season? Lakers will be in the 7th or 8th spot in the West next year at this point?

I think the players are acquiring the habits of the head-coach. "If the headcoach doesn't seem to care and is just relaxing in his final year as a coach, why should we?" We can't afford to have another sit-back, relax coach next year if we wish to push everything out of these Laker squad before Kobe significantly drops due to age.

Last edited by bladefd : 01-04-2011 at 04:09 PM.
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