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Old 01-19-2011, 10:20 PM   #1
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Default Is it possible that a point guard...

...can go through however many years of youth basketball, four years of high school basketball, 3 years at one of the most storied Division One programs in the country...

...without learning how to set up and run a pick and roll? Or, you know, actually play point guard?

Amar'e Stoudemire is probably the best P'nR finisher in the league. The best since Malone. He's got great hands and explosive athleticism. He and Steve Nash used to slice and dice opposing defenses with that simple play. With the Knicks, he hasn't been on the receiving end of a 1-5 P'nR since, like, early December. Or at least it feels that long. Other players have done it recently. Fields, Gallo.

Is Raymond Felton incompetent? Or is he faltering under the pressure and attention and weight of expectation?

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Old 01-19-2011, 10:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

Or perhaps he's just not that good like I've been saying all along.He's a decent point guard.Not good,not bad.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

There's being "not particularly good", and then there's apparently lacking some of the most basic skills your position entails. Day one stuff.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

The wind is blowing against him at the moment. In a point guard loaded league, 3 weeks ago, he was being mentioned as a possible All Star. There is another thread here about him hitting a wall. He was flying on adreneline there for awhile. I think he might have crashed... we can hope that he knows his potential and keeps the level he had earlier in the year.

He does have the best possible schooling if you look at his past. Form and fundamentals break when you are tired. So give him a chance.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

As much as I hate to say it,in his defense,these minutes for our starters are ridiculous.We're overworking our guys like Gil Meche lol
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:15 AM   #6
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

It makes a pick and. Roll hard to run if the defense doesn't respect the gaurds shot and play up on him- so they don't really have to fight through the screen or switch if the defensive player just goes under the screen- and the little guys have a tough time making the pass or ven an entry pass if they don't get covered for the shot
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

There's too much wrong with how Felton plays his position. Ball-handling, passing, timing, everything. He just has bad instincts. And this system absolutely revolves around the PG. His PG fundamentals are so bad. Did he even create a single open shot for anyone tonight? He's not the PG for this system. It was just amazing how large the difference was in Nash's ability to run the point and Nash's ability in that game vs. Phoenix a few days ago. He was getting everyone WIDE open shots at the rim or at the 3-point line while Felton was getting everyone contested shots at the 3-point line and Amare had to still work hard to finish at the rim and Felton would still get credit for the dimes. The only reason he looks so good sometimes is because as bad as he is at running the point, he's by far the best playmaker on the team. How sad is that?
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Knicks
There's too much wrong with how Felton plays his position. Ball-handling, passing, timing, everything. He just has bad instincts. And this system absolutely revolves around the PG. His PG fundamentals are so bad. Did he even create a single open shot for anyone tonight? He's not the PG for this system. It was just amazing how large the difference was in Nash's ability to run the point and Nash's ability in that game vs. Phoenix a few days ago. He was getting everyone WIDE open shots at the rim or at the 3-point line while Felton was getting everyone contested shots at the 3-point line and Amare had to still work hard to finish at the rim and Felton would still get credit for the dimes. The only reason he looks so good sometimes is because as bad as he is at running the point, he's by far the best playmaker on the team. How sad is that?
This is what I'm talking about. He makes the offense harder for his team mates. Especially Amar'e. No one ever gets the ball on the way to the rim, or in a position to take an open shot. Everyone is forced to create for themselves, and no one is great at it. Luckily, they're pretty much all good to great shooters, so it's not a complete debacle. I actually think Fields and Gallo are better playmakers, at least instinctively speaking. Gallo I've seen complete a pick and roll with Amar'e in the last few games, and Fields moves well off the ball, making it easier for guys like Turiaf and Amar'e to make simple, easy passes to the cutter.

Felton has played better at times this season, but it's almost like he needs to learn how to play the position. He should watch some Nash footage.
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoooter
...can go through however many years of youth basketball, four years of high school basketball, 3 years at one of the most storied Division One programs in the country...

...without learning how to set up and run a pick and roll? Or, you know, actually play point guard?
Felton knows how to play PG. I haven't gotten to watch a Knick game in a couple weeks so I haven't seen his struggles lately. Still, saying he does not know how to be a PG is an exaggeration. Hell even if true it doesn't matter cause guys like Derrick Rose and John Wall have no understanding of PG play and they are considered two of the best around.

As for pick and roll play, that has always been a weakness of Felton's. He didn't do much of it at UNC or his first few years in Charlotte. What I'm hoping Felton does is contact Jeff Van Gundy and work with him this off-season on pick and roll play. JVG is extremely knowledgeable in that part of the game.

SN: I always suggest Dean Cooper and JVG as guys to go to for PnR learning. This may be the first time ever that I MAY be able to pass the advice on to a player through back channels.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:12 AM   #10
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
Hell even if true it doesn't matter cause guys like Derrick Rose and John Wall have no understanding of PG play and they are considered two of the best around.

[/i]
I'm gonna save this one. I don't think I have ever heard this before.

From a fundamental basis you are 100% correct.

But todays pg's, most don't have the fundamental game.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:16 AM   #11
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

As far as Felton goes, the guy is injured, and playing too many minutes.

He needs someone to back him up.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:09 AM   #12
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

Quote:
guys like Derrick Rose and John Wall have no understanding of PG play and they are considered two of the best around.


you're kidding right? Derrick Rose is a top 3 pg in the league and John Wall just had 10 assists in the 1st half last night for the 2nd night in a row if I'm not mistaken
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
you're kidding right? Derrick Rose is a top 3 pg in the league and John Wall just had 10 assists in the 1st half last night for the 2nd night in a row if I'm not mistaken
Passing and PG skills are not one and the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
I'm gonna save this one. I don't think I have ever heard this before.

From a fundamental basis you are 100% correct.

But todays pg's, most don't have the fundamental game.
What Chize said above is part of the problem with the NBA approach to PG play. In the NBA PG's are measured by assists and points. That is it.

Neither John Wall or Derrick Rose understand the tactical side of basketball. They don't understand spacing, when a numbers advantage is not a real advantage, what tempo to play at, how to achieve that tempo, etc.

However, both Wall and Rose can get to whatever spots on the floor they want due to quickness and both are willing passers. That's enough to not only get them to the league as a PG but have them succeed as well.

The requirements of a NBA PG are why a guy like Ricky Rubio, who is considered so vital in Europe, will look like a total waste of time in the NBA. His understanding of the game is not valued and he does not have insane athleticism to win one on ones.
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:55 PM   #14
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

I think what you're referring to is youth and inexperience.Theres a difference between not being able to do something and not having mastered it.Raymond Felton hasn't mastered playing point guard.Toney Douglas CANT play point guard!!!

Don't get me started on Ricky Rubio.For the life of me I can't figure out how he went so high in the draft.He essentially is a Rucker street player who became a lottery pick because he has a cool name that rolls off your tongue lol He has shown me nothing that would warrant him being in the league right now let alone being picked top 5.
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: Is it possible that a point guard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
Felton knows how to play PG. I haven't gotten to watch a Knick game in a couple weeks so I haven't seen his struggles lately. Still, saying he does not know how to be a PG is an exaggeration. Hell even if true it doesn't matter cause guys like Derrick Rose and John Wall have no understanding of PG play and they are considered two of the best around.

As for pick and roll play, that has always been a weakness of Felton's. He didn't do much of it at UNC or his first few years in Charlotte. What I'm hoping Felton does is contact Jeff Van Gundy and work with him this off-season on pick and roll play. JVG is extremely knowledgeable in that part of the game.

SN: I always suggest Dean Cooper and JVG as guys to go to for PnR learning. This may be the first time ever that I MAY be able to pass the advice on to a player through back channels.
Pick-and-roll IS his biggest weakness, but that's D'Antoni's #1 play. How's this gonna work out...? And his passing has also been a problem. He tends to throw passes too high or too far to the right or to the left. So instead of guys just catching and shooting, they gotta chase his passes down first. Now all of a sudden they're not open. I do agree somewhat with the state of PGs nowadays. Because of the new rule changes, all you gotta be is super quick with the ball, and you'll dominate. But I still think Rose and Wall are fundamentally better PGs than Felton. Walsh/MDA need to figure this mess out fast because it's a domino effect. How are the other players supposed to trust a PG that can't get them good shots? That's why Amar'e keeps calling for the ball at the 3-point line and playing like he's a SG. Gets stripped by Chuck Hayes 4-5 times in a row but he still keeps doing it. Now either his ego is just absurdly huge or he's starting to trust Felton a lot less.
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