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Old 01-29-2011, 01:41 AM   #76
RedBlackAttack
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Its hard to show your ass on national TV, literally cry on tv like little girls, burn jerseys, have an owner come out like a douchebag and make threats, and all that...and not get laughed at when you are 8-40 or whatever it is. If Cleveland showed some class Lebron would probably be more hated than he is and people would feel bad for the Cavs fans more than they do. Lebrons dick move got overshadowed in ways by the city and team acting like *******.

I rememebr reports of Lebrons old social worker on Cleveland radio talking shit.

Was the weakest ive see na sports town look Ever.




I promise you...that "Woe is we!" shit is part of it. Nobody is trying to hear that shit. There is no love in the heart of the city...or in sports. Its almost like Cubs fans. If you actually won you might seem pissed off just because you cant talk about how long its been since you won.

Cleveland fans the last few years went from the often annoying "We are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO good!" shit that goes with any winning team(Bulls and our fans included) to bitching about how hard you have it.

It allmashed up into a situation where its just funny as hell to see you look like garbage. Its not personal. I remember Knicks fans having signs picking on the Bulls when we sucked without MJ.

When you go from the top to the bottom its funny enough. Add to it all that homotional shit and how it came after years of so many Cavs fans laughing at the idea that he would even leave? Mocking people who claimed that they wouldnt stay on the Cavs when they could go to ____.

Its too much at once. The fall. The hilarity of the cavs fans reaction to the decision? And a soon to be 54 game losing streak?

Its just funny. Deal with it till someone takes the crown of thorns. The Clippers are always a threat for that.
Oh, don't get me wrong... I expected the extreme hate/anger from certain trolling posters on this site. Or from those looking for a reaction. From quality posters that I used to respect? Nah, I didn't expect it.

What percentage of Cleveland sports fans do you think burned their James jerseys on youtube? If today's technological options existed when Shaq left Orlando or VC left Toronto, you would have almost certainly seen similar videos.

For gods sake, Bears fans were burning Cutler jerseys after this past Sunday's game because he sustained a f#cking injury... And he will be playing for them again next year. Why wasn't as big a deal made of that? Why aren't all Bears fans being mocked and laughed at because a handful of people decided to take a lighter to their jersey?

I don't know a single person who burned a jersey. I didn't burn my James jerseys. Yet, all Cleveland fans are lumped in with the very small minority.

I'm also laughing at this assertion that Cavalier fans were throwing it in people's faces about how good we were in the last two years. Was the city excited? Sure it was. But, most of the arrogance (on this site, in particular) was coming from the James fans who are now on the Heat bandwagon and hate the Cavaliers (which also confuses me, btw).

Clevelanders were -- by and large -- aware of the multiple threats out there to our championship hopes and restrained in any celebratory demonstrations about a couple of good regular seasons... At least on the message boards that I'm a part of. There was also always a real fear within the community that James would eventually leave.

It seems to me that you are ascribing a lot of generalized bullsh!t that maybe was espoused by a couple of blowhards on here to an entire fanbase.

And, yeah... The Clippers and other franchises are always a threat for the 'crown of thorns' that we are currently dealing with, but I highly doubt that anyone is going to say that the most entertaining story of an NBA season is how bad the Clippers/Kings/Nets/Timberwolves/Grizzlies are. And I highly doubt that fans of those teams will have to deal with posters completely taking over any and all threads that were made to have a discussion about the team with the same argumentative bullsh!t.

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Old 01-29-2011, 02:05 AM   #77
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

lol the hate is not for cleveland here, any team on their way to a record like this would get this much attention, remember new jersey last season????
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:15 AM   #78
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jabbar
the hate is not for cleveland here
Have you been clicking in the threads related to the Cavs? A majority of the hate is certainly for Cleveland (the city, not even necessarily the basketball team). In fairness, I catch a lot of the hate-fests before they get going and delete them, so the board really doesn't even know the level of hate that Cavs fans have been dealing with since the start of the season. I expected some of it, but I'm pretty surprised at the level.

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Old 01-29-2011, 02:18 AM   #79
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

Quote:
Oh, don't get me wrong... I expected the extreme hate/anger from certain trolling posters on this site. Or from those looking for a reaction. From quality posters that I used to respect? Nah, I didn't expect it.

For one...there is no hate or real anger. Mocking(even mean spirited) doesnt mean anyone hates you or...millions of people in Cleveland. It means you have not won a game in 11 years and its funny. Nobody...and I mean...NOBODY is going to work all day...getting off and picking up some dinner. Coming home to watch the games...trying to relax....and then getting online and getting mad at Cavs fans for being ***** or really hating them for it. Its just people ****ing around. You cant take it that serious.

Quote:
What percentage of Cleveland sports fans do you think burned their James jerseys on youtube? If today's technological options existed when Shaq left Orlando or VC left Toronto, you would have almost certainly seen similar videos.

For gods sake, Bears fans were burning Cutler jerseys after this past Sunday's game because he sustained a f#cking injury... And he will be playing for them again next year. Why wasn't as big a deal made of that? Why aren't all Bears fans being mocked and laughed at because a handful of people decided to take a lighter to their jersey?

I don't know a single person who burned a jersey. I didn't burn my James jerseys. Yet, all Cleveland fans are lumped in with the very small minority.

Oh, don't get me wrong... I expected the extreme hate/anger from certain trolling posters on this site. Or from those looking for a reaction. From quality posters that I used to respect? Nah, I didn't expect it.

What percentage of Cleveland sports fans do you think burned their James jerseys on youtube? If today's technological options existed when Shaq left Orlando or VC left Toronto, you would have almost certainly seen similar videos.

For gods sake, Bears fans were burning Cutler jerseys after this past Sunday's game because he sustained a f#cking injury... And he will be playing for them again next year. Why wasn't as big a deal made of that? Why aren't all Bears fans being mocked and laughed at because a handful of people decided to take a lighter to their jersey?

I don't know a single person who burned a jersey. I didn't burn my James jerseys. Yet, all Cleveland fans are lumped in with the very small minority.

I'm also laughing at this assertion that Cavalier fans were throwing it in people's faces about how good we were in the last two years. Was the city excited? Sure it was. But, most of the arrogance (on this site, in particular) was coming from the James fans who are now on the Heat bandwagon and hate the Cavaliers (which also confuses me, btw).

Clevelanders were -- by and large -- aware of the multiple threats out there to our championship hopes and restrained in any celebratory demonstrations about a couple of good regular seasons... At least on the message boards that I'm a part of. There was also always a real fear within the community that James would eventually leave.

It seems to me that you are ascribing a lot of generalized bullsh!t that maybe was espoused by a couple of blowhards on here to an entire fanbase.

And, yeah... The Clippers and other franchises are always a threat for the 'crown of thorns' that we are currently dealing with, but I highly doubt that anyone is going to say that the most entertaining story of an NBA season is how bad the Clippers/Kings/Nets/Timberwolves/Grizzlies are. And I highly doubt that fans of those teams will have to deal with posters completely taking over any and all threads that were made to have a discussion about the team with the same argumentative bullsh!t.

Virtually every group that gets tied up in stereotypes are because of a vocal/obvious minority. Billion muslims never hurt anyone. We have people calling them evil. It happens. In some matters(such as that one)...I care. Its wrong. This? Its sports. I dont care about a fans feelings because a bunch of fellow fans of his make him look bad. This isnt life and death. Its jokes.

And that is how its always been. People hated on Pistons fans heavily after the Brawl. One alcoholic threw a bottle and like...5-6 people poured drinks on the Pacers leaving. Millions got a bad rep. In games where bottles get rained down onto the court and someone has to take the mic and calm it down(Ive seen Larry Brown and Pop have to do that). Might be...20 things thrown. 20 thousand people there. What do announcers say? "These fans...".

Like it or not the actions of a large number of your fans reflects on all of you. And its not just on tv either. I know people in Ohio. Hatred up there got out of hand I heard. Which isnt surprising considering the hundreds(thousands) of angry emails and letters we saw posted and in places online wishing him and his family harm and all that.

It wasnt some 5-6 nutjobs. It was a LOT of people. Crying, burning shit, wishing injury, making death threats, and generally being assholes. And they gave you all a bad name.


Quote:
And, yeah... The Clippers and other franchises are always a threat for the 'crown of thorns' that we are currently dealing with, but I highly doubt that anyone is going to say that the most entertaining story of an NBA season is how bad the Clippers/Kings/Nets/Timberwolves/Grizzlies are. And I highly doubt that fans of those teams will have to deal with posters completely taking over any and all threads that were made to have a discussion about the team with the same argumentative bullsh!t.

No they wont. because there is nothing interesting that led to their declines and no major story around it. Minny is bad because...well a lot of reasons that go back a lot of years. Same for the Clippers, Kings, Nets and whoever. The Cavs are a joke because of one guy...who crushed them...and set off a storm of hatred the likes of which ive not seen in 25 years of being a fan(though VC was close...it wasnt a national issue).

If you are surprised people come in and laugh when you talk about the cavs you just dont know where you are. As if ISH sat by and showed respect when the Magic were 1-25 or whatever and Magic fans wanted to discuss Drew Goodens improving Ft shooting...

I was on here years ago after Marcus Fixer had like a 30/20 game at the end of the year talking about it. Think people didnt come in(Knicks fans at the time) and laugh about how Bulls fans had fallen to the point of hyping up empty stats in a loss in a 24 win season? So what? All I did was tell them that even with us out the way...the Knicks still cant win a ring. Thats sports. Thats sports fans.

If you are so sensitive you cant take some jokes when your team falls from best to maybe...the worst team ever....you dont need to follow sports and talk about them with people who arent following the same team.

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Old 01-29-2011, 02:37 AM   #80
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
For one...there is no hate or real anger. Mocking(even mean spirited) doesnt mean anyone hates you or...millions of people in Cleveland. It means you have not won a game in 11 years and its funny. Nobody...and I mean...NOBODY is going to work all day...getting off and picking up some dinner. Coming home to watch the games...trying to relax....and then getting online and getting mad at Cavs fans for being ***** or really hating them for it. Its just people ****ing around. You cant take it that serious.

'Hate' is a relative term. When I said 'hate,' I wasn't referring to the kind of anger that is issued to people like Bernie Madoff and other 'real life' scumbags. I wouldn't say I'm taking it 'that serious,' either... Just making some observations on what I view as a surprising (at least to me) development.

Trust me, I'm not lying in bed thinking about how some guy on ISH was making fun of the Cavaliers or calling the city of Cleveland a hell hole. That doesn't mean that I can't point out that it is a rather interesting phenomena.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Virtually every group that gets tied up in stereotypes are because of a vocal/obvious minority. Billion muslims never hurt anyone. We have people calling them evil. It happens. In some matters(such as that one)...I care. Its wrong. This? Its sports. I dont care about a fans feelings because a bunch of fellow fans of his make him look bad. This isnt life and death. Its jokes.

And that is how its always been. People hated on Pistons fans heavily after the Brawl. One alcoholic threw a bottle and like...5-6 people poured drinks on the Pacers leaving. Millions got a bad rep. In games where bottles get rained down onto the court and someone has to take the mic and calm it down(Ive seen Larry Brown and Pop have to do that). Might be...20 things thrown. 20 thousand people there. What do announcers say? "These fans...".

Like it or not the actions of a large number of your fans reflects on all of you. And its not just on tv either. I know people in Ohio. Hatred up there got out of hand I heard. Which isnt surprising considering the hundreds(thousands) of angry emails and letters we saw posted and in places online wishing him and his family harm and all that.

It wasnt some 5-6 nutjobs. It was a LOT of people. Crying, burning shit, wishing injury, making death threats, and generally being assholes. And they gave you all a bad name.

I'm not really following you. Why do you think that I am equating racial stereotypes that may have an impact on RL issues to stereotypes about a city's sports fans? I never did any such thing.

I simply pointed out the absurdity in labeling an entire region's sports fans as pathetic because a relatively tiny minority posted some videos on youtube. I wasn't equating it to anything important in the real world. How would the fact that it doesn't have real world consequences make it any less truthful, though? And, it is hardly the same thing as fans in an arena starting the biggest brawl in American sports history.

The youtube thing was completely overblown and, once again, we even saw a similar reaction last week by Bears' fans. No one really gave a sh!t (as they shouldn't).

I do wonder, though... What do you think would have been the appropriate reaction to James' sudden and rather callous exit? I'm just not sure what people expected. Maybe the reaction was beyond anything you've ever seen because no one has ever made an exit the way James did (and in his hometown, no less). It was a pretty unique situation, was it not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
No they wont. because there is nothing interesting that led to their declines and no major story around it. Minny is bad because...well a lot of reasons that go back a lot of years. Same for the Clippers, Kings, Nets and whoever. The Cavs are a joke because of one guy...who crushed them...and set off a storm of hatred the likes of which ive not seen in 25 years of being a fan(though VC was close...it wasnt a national issue).

If you are surprised people come in and laugh when you talk about the cavs you just dont know where you are. As if ISH sat by and showed respect when the Magic were 1-25 or whatever and Magic fans wanted to discuss Drew Goodens improving Ft shooting...

I was on here years ago after Marcus Fixer had like a 30/20 game at the end of the year talking about it. Think people didnt come in(Knicks fans at the time) and laugh about how Bulls fans had fallen to the point of hyping up empty stats in a loss in a 24 win season? So what? All I did was tell them that even with us out the way...the Knicks still cant win a ring. Thats sports. Thats sports fans.

If you are so sensitive you cant take some jokes when your team falls from best to maybe...the worst team ever....you dont need to follow sports and talk about them with people who arent following the same team.

Once again, I don't feel that I'm taking it personally or that I'm being too sensitive, unless pointing out an interesting phenomena that our fans have been dealing with is being sensitive. I really don't care all that much, although it would be nice to have a discussion about the Cavaliers on here in which I didn't have to delete 100 of the same nonsensical comments.

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Old 01-29-2011, 03:00 AM   #81
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

What forces you to delete them anyway? Does every team get mods deleting piling on? What could anyone be saying? cleveland sucks? its funny to see these losers fail? shit like that?

What about that justifies the denial of free speech? Im not even a real...free speech guy. I think it should have its limits because people are too sheepish to not be influenced by evil people with free speech.

But I dont know if it should have limits talking about sports on the internet as long as there isnt a lot of violence or...something that could get someone reading from work fired.

If you people are deleting hundreds of posts because people find it funny a 60 win team is the worst in the league and pick on all the related Cleveland issues....

I dont know. Just feels kinda...odd. Like...protecting Cavs fans from reading...whatever it is...should be low as hell on the priority list.

Like seeing cops write littering tickets when you just know someone is in real danger somewhere and this cop is here doing this BS.

Seems kinda petty to me. But perhaps the orders from above are to be...petty. So I wont put it on you at the moment.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:03 AM   #82
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Have you been clicking in the threads related to the Cavs? A majority of the hate is certainly for Cleveland (the city, not even necessarily the basketball team). In fairness, I catch a lot of the hate-fests before they get going and delete them, so the board really doesn't even know the level of hate that Cavs fans have been dealing with since the start of the season. I expected some of it, but I'm pretty surprised at the level.

Personally I don't hate cleveland by any means, in fact, feel sorry for them and hate what lebron did to the franchise. I do despise their players, not for their awful basketball display but for the lack of heart showed in the game against the heat. As a Lebron hater I was so eager to watch that game. Total let down.

In all reality I haven't seen people actually hate on cleveland the city much other than a few jokes on how bad they have been through history, but no more than the Clippers being mocked for their shitt.y history and injury curse.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:16 AM   #83
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
What forces you to delete them anyway? Does every team get mods deleting piling on? What could anyone be saying? cleveland sucks? its funny to see these losers fail? shit like that?

What about that justifies the denial of free speech? Im not even a real...free speech guy. I think it should have its limits because people are too sheepish to not be influenced by evil people with free speech.

But I dont know if it should have limits talking about sports on the internet as long as there isnt a lot of violence or...something that could get someone reading from work fired.

If you people are deleting hundreds of posts because people find it funny a 60 win team is the worst in the league and pick on all the related Cleveland issues....

I dont know. Just feels kinda...odd. Like...protecting Cavs fans from reading...whatever it is...should be low as hell on the priority list.

Like seeing cops write littering tickets when you just know someone is in real danger somewhere and this cop is here doing this BS.

Seems kinda petty to me. But perhaps the orders from above are to be...petty. So I wont put it on you at the moment.

All mods are different. I do my best to keep conversations civil and I do what I can to avoid a thread being overwhelmed by trolls. And, no... I don't delete posts that say 'The Cavs suck' or that the team is a bunch of losers. In fact, I would agree with those two statements.

I will delete what I deem as being derogatory or otherwise hateful rhetoric. It has nothing to do with the directive from the admin (although I certainly take his advice into account). He made me a mod because he trusted my judgment and I do my best to use that judgment in maintaining a good message board.

And, no... The vast majority of my moderating has nothing to do with the Cavaliers. Although, because I am most active in Cavs threads, I may be a more active moderator in Cavs threads... Simply because that is where I spend my time.

Take a look in any Cavaliers related thread and you be the judge as to whether bashing is being allowed. I can assure you, it is... there is a line, though... Just like with anything else.

And, free speech has nothing to do with this place. This is a private website and what the admins and mods say is what goes.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:38 AM   #84
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

Kinda getting a Soup Nazi vibe at the end there. And while im not the least bit concerned about anything you have the power to do...it still doesnt feel like a discussion we need to have at the moment.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:46 AM   #85
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

I can't wait for Washington at Cleveland. If Washington is still winless on the road by then, and if they will win, I will laugh my lungs out and die.


Signed Lil B
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:54 AM   #86
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

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I can't wait for Washington at Cleveland. If Washington is still winless on the road by then, and if they will win, I will laugh my lungs out and die.


Signed Lil B
The Wizards should take it to the Cavaliers. Have you been paying attention to our starting lineup? It ain't Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, Antawn Jamison, JJ Hickson and Anderson Varejao.... And that was bad enough.

Try Alonzo Gee, Manny Harris, Ryan Hollins and Ramon Session on for size... And Hickson at center.

At the rate we are going with the severe injuries to an already bad and depleted team, we really shouldn't win another game all season.

Signed RBA
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:33 AM   #87
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
The Wizards should take it to the Cavaliers. Have you been paying attention to our starting lineup? It ain't Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, Antawn Jamison, JJ Hickson and Anderson Varejao.... And that was bad enough.

Try Alonzo Gee, Manny Harris, Ryan Hollins and Ramon Session on for size... And Hickson at center.

At the rate we are going with the severe injuries to an already bad and depleted team, we really shouldn't win another game all season.

Signed RBA


We will win one. Have faith. Scott has to do a better job of motivating the team. I heard all this sh*t on how Scott is such a hard-ass, and I have yet to see it. I'm not calling for his head by any-means, I just think that his effort isn't where I'd like to see it.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:24 PM   #88
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Oh, don't get me wrong... I expected the extreme hate/anger from certain trolling posters on this site. Or from those looking for a reaction. From quality posters that I used to respect? Nah, I didn't expect it.

What percentage of Cleveland sports fans do you think burned their James jerseys on youtube? If today's technological options existed when Shaq left Orlando or VC left Toronto, you would have almost certainly seen similar videos.

For gods sake, Bears fans were burning Cutler jerseys after this past Sunday's game because he sustained a f#cking injury... And he will be playing for them again next year. Why wasn't as big a deal made of that? Why aren't all Bears fans being mocked and laughed at because a handful of people decided to take a lighter to their jersey?

I don't know a single person who burned a jersey. I didn't burn my James jerseys. Yet, all Cleveland fans are lumped in with the very small minority.

I'm also laughing at this assertion that Cavalier fans were throwing it in people's faces about how good we were in the last two years. Was the city excited? Sure it was. But, most of the arrogance (on this site, in particular) was coming from the James fans who are now on the Heat bandwagon and hate the Cavaliers (which also confuses me, btw).

Clevelanders were -- by and large -- aware of the multiple threats out there to our championship hopes and restrained in any celebratory demonstrations about a couple of good regular seasons... At least on the message boards that I'm a part of. There was also always a real fear within the community that James would eventually leave.

It seems to me that you are ascribing a lot of generalized bullsh!t that maybe was espoused by a couple of blowhards on here to an entire fanbase.

And, yeah... The Clippers and other franchises are always a threat for the 'crown of thorns' that we are currently dealing with, but I highly doubt that anyone is going to say that the most entertaining story of an NBA season is how bad the Clippers/Kings/Nets/Timberwolves/Grizzlies are. And I highly doubt that fans of those teams will have to deal with posters completely taking over any and all threads that were made to have a discussion about the team with the same argumentative bullsh!t.
Way to rewrite history. You were one of the many cavs posters who was 100% convinced Lebron was resigning with cleveland and that he'd never leave you-or were all you cavs fans like that only trying to convince yourselves that?
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:16 PM   #89
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

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Originally Posted by Nick Young
Way to rewrite history. You were one of the many cavs posters who was 100% convinced Lebron was resigning with cleveland and that he'd never leave you-or were all you cavs fans like that only trying to convince yourselves that?
Delusional doesn't even begin to describe their fan base. Attempts to compare it to other sports and free agent situations? Did businessmen in those respective cities erect a sign to talk shit to Cutler? Disrespectful signs and t shirts about their family members? Threats on their personal safety? Documentaries left and right with people crying about how since said athlete left, their business is down, with even the mayor in on the act? Attempts to voodoo the athlete on radio?

And while it is no surprise, the fact you use your mod "power" to delete ideas you disagree with is troubling.

And yes, that makes the entire fall from grace hilarious. I remember them all last yr so sure LeBron would never leave, and it's coinciding with the same fall from grace the city has been experiencing over the last decade, you couldn't write it better than that in Hollywood. Remember when Miami started the season off struggling and the Cavs came out inspired and how great all of you felt about that?

Universally, people think the decision was horrible, but aside from that all the "woe is me" victim talk is falling on deaf ears anywhere outside of Ohio.

Yea, that's all par for the course.





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Old 01-29-2011, 07:26 PM   #90
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Default Re: The time has come: Clevelands Countdown to losing streak record. Official thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 50inchvertical
Delusional doesn't even begin to describe their fan base. Attempts to compare it to other sports and free agent situations? Did businessmen in those respective cities erect a sign to talk shit to Cutler? Disrespectful signs and t shirts about their family members? Threats on their personal safety? Documentaries left and right with people crying about how since said athlete left, their business is down, with even the mayor in on the act? Attempts to voodoo the athlete on radio?
I'm not going to defend everything that was said about James in the last few months, because I didn't agree with all of it, but did Cutler really do anything to the Bears' fanbase that compared to what James did? Checking out in a playoff series was only one of the ingredients that created the sh!tstorm. That is all Cutler did and it may have been due to a legitimate injury.







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d7CKwUHWBo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs0iG_BwzH0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT4i2ju61Og


And, this was... Why, again? Because Cutler suffered an injury during the NFC Championship? My goodness... Imagine the reaction if he had done something... You know... Of substance.

Now, 50inch... Get back to writing those incredible posts mocking poverty in Cleveland. So insightful.
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