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Old 05-12-2010, 02:37 PM   #1
Fatal9
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Default MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Before we write a eulogy for Lebron's legacy...let's take a trip down memory lane...

Game 5, 1989 ECF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgiPrZ1eDTU (entire game is on youtube)


At this point, this was the biggest game of Jordan's career, he's in his prime and he pulls the same sh*t Lebron did. You know how many shots he took in the game? EIGHT. And half of them were in the first quarter. He took just one shot in the fourth quarter and airballed it. It wasn't like the game was out of hand, it was a nip and tuck till the end. Just like the Cavs last night, the Bulls were waiting for MJ to take over, or at least show he cared...but it never came.

it's never about just the number of shots...it's the demeanor. Bulls were up 2-1 in this series and stole home court, Jordan carried them in the game 3 win...didn't have a good game 4 and they lost, teammates didn't play well which was often the case. He comes out next game and plays the same passive way LBJ/KB have been accused of. Floats passes, has weird turnovers where his head doesn't seem in the game, content to just dump off the ball to his teammates and watch them 25 feet away from the hoop, content to have Brad Sellers take late clock jumpers rather than look or demand for the ball. There was defensive pressure sure, it's the bad boy Pistons after all, just like there was defensive pressure any time Lebron plays the Celtics. Great defense or not, you can't watch the game and not come out thinking the same thing you thought last night...wtf was MJ doing?


Even the announcers were puzzled and wondering what the hell was going on...

“he hasn’t really gotten that aggressive look at the offensive end so far”

”it’s almost like Jordan is on cruise control”

”at this point, Jordan is not even looking at the basket. More or less content to be a decoy”

”he’s been as quiet as a mouse, he just hasn’t been looking at the hoop and I think he has to”



Now put yourself back in 1989. You just watched MJ go through the motions for an entire game in the biggest game of his career, and it's more than likely because he's pissed at his team for not helping him in the previous game. Would you not be questioning his "killer instinct", "will to win" etc etc? Fast forward 5 years, when Jordan completes the three peat...are you still saying the same thing? Lebron's "killer instinct" was just fine when he refused to lose vs. Pistons in '07, in game 7 vs. Celts in '08, when he saved Cavs from elimination with one of the most dominant fourth quarters I've ever seen in game 5 vs. Magic last year, but now his legacy is forever tarnished over "killer instinct"?

The point of this post? Before you start going wild over last night's game, know that going back to Jordan's career at the same age, you'd be saying the same thing and come out looking like an ass once his career was done. The biggest difference between when MJ had these "I am going to prove a point" games 20 years ago to now? He didn't have the entire world congregating on the internet and accuse him of dogging it.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Did you delete the thread before or was it one of the mods?
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

MJ did it once, on the road, against a heavily favored team.

LeBron's' done it 3 times, twice at home, against an inferior team.

So no, not the "same stuff".
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Painting how MJ behaved with what Lebron did last night is a bit of revisionist history, nothign else.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Most people are just happy he failed more than anything else.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal9
Before we write a eulogy for Lebron's legacy...let's take a trip down memory lane...

Game 5, 1989 ECF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgiPrZ1eDTU (entire game is on youtube)


At this point, this was the biggest game of Jordan's career, he's in his prime and he pulls the same sh*t Lebron did. You know how many shots he took in the game? EIGHT. And half of them were in the first quarter. He took just one shot in the fourth quarter and airballed it. It wasn't like the game was out of hand, it was a nip and tuck till the end. Just like the Cavs last night, the Bulls were waiting for MJ to take over, or at least show he cared...but it never came.

it's never about just the number of shots...it's the demeanor. Bulls were up 2-1 in this series and stole home court, Jordan carried them in the game 3 win...didn't have a good game 4 and they lost, teammates didn't play well which was often the case. He comes out next game and plays the same passive way LBJ/KB have been accused of. Floats passes, has weird turnovers where his head doesn't seem in the game, content to just dump off the ball to his teammates and watch them 25 feet away from the hoop, content to have Brad Sellers take late clock jumpers rather than look or demand for the ball. There was defensive pressure sure, it's the bad boy Pistons after all, just like there was defensive pressure any time Lebron plays the Celtics. Great defense or not, you can't watch the game and not come out thinking the same thing you thought last night...wtf was MJ doing?


Even the announcers were puzzled and wondering what the hell was going on...

“he hasn’t really gotten that aggressive look at the offensive end so far”

”it’s almost like Jordan is on cruise control”

”at this point, Jordan is not even looking at the basket. More or less content to be a decoy”

”he’s been as quiet as a mouse, he just hasn’t been looking at the hoop and I think he has to”



Now put yourself back in 1989. You just watched MJ go through the motions for an entire game in the biggest game of his career, and it's more than likely because he's pissed at his team for not helping him in the previous game. Would you not be questioning his "killer instinct", "will to win" etc etc? Fast forward 5 years, when Jordan completes the three peat...are you still saying the same thing? Lebron's "killer instinct" was just fine when he refused to lose vs. Pistons in '07, in game 7 vs. Celts in '08, when he saved Cavs from elimination with one of the most dominant fourth quarters I've ever seen in game 5 vs. Magic last year, but now his legacy is forever tarnished over "killer instinct"?

The point of this post? Before you start going wild over last night's game, know that going back to Jordan's career at the same age, you'd be saying the same thing and come out looking like an ass once his career was done. The biggest difference between when MJ had these "I am going to prove a point" games 20 years ago to now? He didn't have the entire world congregating on the internet and accuse him of dogging it.
great post fatal. my sentiments exactly (I posted a much shorter rant to this effect in PB's thread).
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Jordan shares the honor amongst Champions with Bill Russell of never losing a series where his team had HCA.

While I certainly think there is a huge overreaction going on now, this is significant. Two years in a row losing to inferior teams (based on Vegas odds and regular season record) in the postseason is a sizable blemish when your talking about one of the greatest players in NBA history based on regular season awards and recognition.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Great post. I would rep you if it was possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
Painting how MJ behaved with what Lebron did last night is a bit of revisionist history, nothign else.
How is it revisionist history? I find the situations strikingly similar. In fact, back in 1989 Jordan also had a weak-minded coach whose sole offense included giving Jordan the ball and going 1v5. That particular coach's hold on the team at that point was lost because the team did not respect him at all.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Anyone that worries about Lebron's legacy right now are dumb 24/7 sports shows that need it for ratings and people living in Cleveland.

Last edited by DropStep : 05-12-2010 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

It's mostly your fellow Kobe Cockslobbers that are overdoing it about him so you should talk to them at your next "We Worship Kobe" meeting.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:49 PM   #11
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnchorman
Great post. I would rep you if it was possible.

How is it revisionist history? I find the situations strikingly similar. In fact, back in 1989 Jordan also had a weak-minded coach whose sole offense included giving Jordan the ball and going 1v5. That particular coach's hold on the team at that point was lost because the team did not respect him at all.

Lebron seems to be flirting with other teams all season, he looks totally distracted by this, or his injury, etc. and has the entire playoffs with the exception of one or two games. So, we are comparing it with ONE game in an MJ series. Totally same thing, right?
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:50 PM   #12
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeKarl
Both Karl Malone and James put up amazing regular season records and stats

Both are 2 time MVPs

Both couldnt get it done in the playoffs.

Both are amazing physical specimens in prime condition.

Yes Malone is the all time turnover leader but Lebron averages more turnovers per game than Malone, if James career is as long as Malone's he will likely break Malone's record.

Malone was the better more efficient scorer and better rebounder, Lebron is better at defense passing and outside shooting.

Is Lebron his generation's Karl Malone? That is not an insult. Karl Malone is an alltime great.

Karl Malone has already been insulted once for him being compared to Boozer, someone who commits a hand shake agreement with a team and then backdoors them.

Please do not further insult Karl by comparing him to someone that just quit on his teamates, his fans, and the city of Cleveland as a whole by playing and effortless, emotionless game 5. I met Karl Malone before and he shook my hand after a game and introduced himself (as if any introduction was needed...) One of the nicest players that I ever met.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

I think the difference(and it's not really Lebron's fault) is that because of Mike Brown's offensive system or lack thereof, Lebron still has to carry the Cavs offensively, despite playing with a talented roster.

Jamison had been a consistent 20 ppg scorer for 5 years in Washington, even while sharing the ball with Arenas and Butler. He was averaging 20.5 ppg this season with Washington, yet he comes to Cleveland and averages less than 16 ppg in the regular season with them, 16 ppg for the playoffs and now 13 ppg vs Boston.

Lebron averaged 30/7/9 on 50% shooting in the regular season and now 29/8/7 on 52% shooting in the playoffs. Lebron averages nearly twice as many points as anyone else on the team and he's asked to be their point forward as well. Simply put, you can't rely on 1 guy to do that much if you expect to win a championship. He averaged 38/8/8 in the ECF last year and they still lost. Jordan, Kobe, Wilt ect. never won when they had to do that much. Jordan only started winning when Phil Jackson came in, put in an offense that didn't rely on him carrying them all the time and it got the best out of his teammates.

I seriously doubt that Lebron is going to win a championship with Mike Brown as his head coach.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian guy
MJ did it once, on the road, against a heavily favored team.

LeBron's' done it 3 times, twice at home, against an inferior team.

So no, not the "same stuff".


How are the Celtics an inferior team?

Truth be told, I was nervous about them before this series even started, after seeing how they closed out the reg. season and first round of the playoffs.

Sure their big three are old, but Ray and KG have been coming up huge, and Rondo is a bona fide superstar now.

Add in the fact that something is clearly wrong with Lebron physically (and possibly mentally too) and the Celtics no longer look so inferior.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Courtside View
It's mostly your fellow Kobe Cockslobbers that are overdoing it about him so you should talk to them at your next "We Worship Kobe" meeting.

yep except 9/10 posts that are bad about lebron have Cavs fan usernames
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