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Old 01-28-2011, 02:48 PM   #31
Ne 1
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

KILLER INSTINCT....

List of Kobe's notable game-winners:

1) 05/09/99 - Lakers 101, Rockets 100 (playoffs, game-winning FTs with 5.3 seconds remaining)
2) 12/27/99 - Lakers 108, Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs)
3) 05/10/00 - Lakers 97, Phoenix 96 (playoffs, jumper over Jason Kidd)
4) 11/16/00 - Lakers 112, Kings 110 (game-tying three for OT, OT jumper for win)
5) 02/07/01 - Lakers 85, Phoenix 83 (jumper with 2.7 seconds remaining)
6) 02/13/01 - Lakers 113, Nets 110 (OT game-winning layup with the And-1)
7) 01/02/02 - Lakers 87, Nuggets 86 (offensive reb and jumper)
8) 02/22/02 - Lakers 96, Hornets 94 (first career buzzer-beater, jumper)
9) 03/24/02 - Lakers 97, Kings 96 (fade-away jumper, 36 seconds remaining)
10) 05/12/02 - Lakers 87, Spurs 85 (playoffs, offensive rebound and put-back)
11) 12/06/02 - Lakers 105, Mavericks 103 (28-point game comeback, spin-around jumper)
12) 04/04/03 - Lakers 102, Grizzlies 101 (buzzer-beater, jumper)
13) 04/06/03 - Lakers 115, Suns 113 (GW jumper with 28.6 seconds remaining)
14) 12/19/03 - Lakers 101, Nuggets 99 (game after the trial, buzzer-beating fade-away)
15) 02/17/04 - Lakers 89, Blazers 86 (layup and the foul)
16) 03/21/04 - Lakers 104, Bucks 103 (OT jumper with 25 seconds remaining)
17) 04/14/04 - Lakers 105, Blazers 104 (game-tying three for OT, OT GW buzzer-beating three)
18) 03/13/05 - Lakers 117, Bobcats 116 (pump fake jumper for the win)
19) 11/02/05 - Lakers 99, Nuggets 97 (OT jumper after the Kwame brick)
20) 12/04/05 - Lakers 99, Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs)
21) 01/12/06 - Lakers 99, Cavaliers 98 (jumper against Lebron with 8 seconds to go)
22) 04/30/06 - Lakers 99, Suns 98 (playoffs, game-tying tear drop for OT, and OT game-winning jumper)
23) 01/14/08 - Lakers 123, Sonics 121 (OT game-winning jumper)
24) 01/09/09 - Lakers 121, Pacers 119 (jumper against Jarrett Jack with 3 seconds to go)
25) 12/04/09 - Lakers 108, Heat 107 (game-winning buzzer-beating three over Wade)
26) 12/16/09 - Lakers 107, Bucks 106 (game-winning buzzer-beating jumper over Bell)
27) 01/01/10 - Lakers 109, Kings 108 (game-winning buzzer-beating three, 4.1 seconds left and 0.1 remaining)
28) 01/13/10 - Lakers 100, Mavericks 95 (game-winning jumper with 28.9 seconds remaining)
29) 01/31/10 - Lakers 90, Celtics 89 (game-winning jumper with 7 secs remaining)
30) 02/23/10 - Lakers 99, Grizzlies 98 (game-winning jumper with 4.3 seconds remaining)
31) 03/10/10 - Lakers 109, Raptors 107 (game-winning fade-away with 1.9 seconds remaining)

Last edited by Ne 1 : 01-28-2011 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:48 PM   #32
raptorfan_dr07
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Wow so there actually is a decent writer for ESPN???

Exact same thing many of us have been saying, except these blind sheep don't want to hear it. Nobody's denying that Kobe is clutch. Definitely one of the best in the league when it comes to big shots. But this notion that he is the absolute best at clutch shots either currently, or all time, is blown completely out of proportion.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:48 PM   #33
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Kobe is a clutch player and a warrior who doesnt back down, and fearless to take the last shot (for the good or bad).

That said, he isnt the most clutch player even today, and to compare him as equal to All-time clutch players like Jordan or Bird is a travesty. I would take Pierce/Ray/Melo over Kobe with his 25% FG as the game winning shots goes, what to speak of MJ/Bird, who are head and shoulders better than current all the most clutch players.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:48 PM   #34
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
"Kobe shoots his teams out of W's", "LA will never win with Kobe shooting that much", "According to 82games Kobe is overrated in the clutch" (despite making almost ALL his GW's last season lol).

The excuses will never end. Most of the guys that say this have never played basketball at a high level. Anyone who's watched Kobe since 2003 will tell you he's been the most feared player when the game is on the line.
of course he's the most feared because everyone knows he's going to shoot. whereas on other teams, they fear several players a little bit, on the Lakers everyone is worried about stopping Kobe.

i think people on this thread are arguing different things. those of us who read the article are talking about winning games down the stretch, and those who discard it are talking about single-handedly winning games down the stretch.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:53 PM   #35
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
Anyone who's watched Kobe since 2003 will tell you he's been the most feared player when the game is on the line.
I guess the GMs and coaches don't know anything. We should get Abbott to replace them.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:54 PM   #36
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

2000 clutch playoff plays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXvi8waXyA

2001/2002 clutch playoff plays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8nEqiEZQ30

2002 clutch playoff plays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZOXZea1iGk

2003-2007 clutch playoff plays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDpPrdF6ANs

2008 clutch playoff plays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p0vfX6j1Pw

2009 clutch playoff plays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlusnThciI4

2010 clutch playoff plays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xqLrgyVIAE

/thread
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:54 PM   #37
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

@yabore

i don't know, if i had to pick a guy for the last shot it would be kobe (or pierce)
sure he ****s it up sometimes, but who doesn't and sure some people overrate the shit out of him but saying that he is not even in the top 5 of the most clutch players in the L is just hatin
And he prove that when he has the right team he is able to lead this team to the finals and to a championship with or without Shaq
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:54 PM   #38
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

From everything I've seen from Kobe in his career he has a fearless mentality that allows him to take and make ridiculously difficult shots. Now with his shot selection why is it surprising that he has missed a lot of shots as well??? I think this article speaks more to Kobe's mentality than whether he is clutch or not.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:58 PM   #39
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

I've always believed in what the article writer stated in regards to the opposition knowing that Kobe is gonna jack it up every single time. Why do the Lakers take the guess work out of the equation for the defense? Yes, by sheer will, skill and athletecism...and with a little bit of luck thrown in, Kobe will make some clutch shots.....but how trully effective is this whole plan? Last year it didn't matter cause the Lakers had homecourt, but in a year like this one where homecourt will be hard fought, what is the Lakers best clutch plan? To simply say give it to Kobe and move outta the way? Is that trully it? Why not run some Ray Allen type pick and screen type plays for him instead of just giving him the ball and having him go 1 on 3? How many times has Kobe forced up a bad shot and then looked around frustrated as if nobody was open?
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:01 PM   #40
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

I don't feel like there is a stat that accurately quantifies clutch..so all these numbers don't mean much to me....

Shots made against the Bucks in the regular season also don't mean much to me. Clutch is when the pressure is on....

Its funny...people in New Orleans get mad at CP3 for being too passive in the clutch and refusing to impose his will upon the game. Guess stats don't tell you all the different points of view.

Last edited by IGOTGAME : 01-28-2011 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:02 PM   #41
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

NBA GM survey:

Which player would you want taking the game-winning shot?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 78.6%
2. Carmelo Anthony, Denver; Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City 7.1%

Also receiving votes:
Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas; Dwyane Wade, Miami
- Last year: Kobe Bryant 89.7%
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:03 PM   #42
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
what is the hornets record in games decided by 5 points or less? in the playoffs?

thats honestly all I need to see.
glad you asked 80-44 and by far the best point differential despite being just an above average team.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...is-paul-clutch
/index.html

All of this thread isn't about the playoffs it's about the end of close games. I can't think of many close Hornets games in the playoffs recently, but I doubt the Lakers fans would be willing to concede Kobe isn't the clutchest in the regular season.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:05 PM   #43
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by yobore
glad you asked 80-44 and by far the best point differential despite being just an above average team.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...is-paul-clutch
/index.html

All of this thread isn't about the playoffs it's about the end of close games. I can't think of many close Hornets games in the playoffs recently, but I doubt the Lakers fans would be willing to concede Kobe isn't the clutchest in the regular season.

That is since 2005...do you have a breakdown of what teams and what years. A blanket stat from 6 years ago means nothing. I don't even know if Chris Paul necessarily played in all of those games.

I have seen CP3 play and give me Kobe or Paul Pierce or Wade on my squad to close a game any day.

I just don't think that stat quantifies anything. I have seen Kobe get doubled from behind the three point line several times which has lead to a hocket assist to Gasol or Odom.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:08 PM   #44
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by glidedrxlr22
Why not run some Ray Allen type pick and screen type plays for him instead of just giving him the ball and having him go 1 on 3?
He not that type of player. That wouldn't be playing to his strengths.

Playing to Kobe strengths would have him inbounding the ball around halfcourt and going from there with the ball in his hands.

The only other player who has those type of skills is probably Pierce. Boston has the option of going to whoever suits there needs in the clutch. LA does not.

Fisher almost always get his clutch shots assisted out of broken plays. Gasol is almost always going to miss FTs in the clutch. Like clockwork. Everyone else you can't count on for anything in the last few minutes.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:08 PM   #45
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Do you guys watch the game of basketball? How are you going to use numbers about so-and-so many seconds and so-and-so many points behind/points ahead to determine what is essentially an attitude(being clutch is an attitude, a mentality). These figures can be so easily maniplated by changing the parameters for what is and what isn't a clutch situation.

What ever the case, what you have posted DOES NOT pass the eye ball test of all the people who are at the games sitting courtside and who know the game of basketball better than anyone..

Chris paul is a quick point guard with a decent jumpshot and great passing ability, but he stands at 6'0 tall.

Kobe bryant is a 6'5-6'6 shooting guard with a much better offensive arsenal of moves to get a shot off(he is a much better scorer than paul). That and kobe has better lift and will have an easier time getting a better jumpshot off(plus he's very, very used to shooting contested jumpers; he does it all the time when he shoots out of the post).

Kobe will be the game winners leader in NBA HISTORY by the time he retires...

But seriously.. have numbers and stats with made up parameters replaced common sense and watching the games?

Melo still got some years to go....
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