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Old 01-30-2011, 05:16 PM   #16
Qwyjibo
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

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Find a nice young exec from San Antonio
That's the only thing I can think of when it comes to a replacement right now. Steal an assistant GM or someone from a great organization like the Spurs.
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Old 01-30-2011, 07:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

It shows the beaten-down state of Toronto sports fans that there are some who'd even countenance keeping Colangelo after the catastrophic job he's done just because they fear that they might get something even worse. Jesus, I know it's hard, but have some level of hope for your team! You don't have to wearily accept shit performance.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:30 AM   #18
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Good points the last 2 posts. Too add to that, it's basically the same scenario where the main piece (at least according to Colangelo) is a scoring PF, albeit one that is not even close to as good as the one Colangelo had last time.


I like how lots of sources use that as justification. Isn't his job to not "miss"? Shouldn't he be identifying moves, big or small, where he won't fail?


I think I'm with bada bing. I don't have any faith in Colangelo's team building philosophy. Some of his core ideas of what constitutes a winning team have been beyond flawed. He's already failed miserably once with a "clean slate" and pretty much a better starting situation than what is coming up. I do think he will stay on with the Raptors because he's not only the GM but also the President. I'm sure he does a fine job as President but I somehow don't think he'd be willing to give up just his GM spot.

agreed. Colangelo's basketball vision for Raptors is flawed. This would be the best time to let him go (when we have cap, possible top 5 pick and trade exemption, expirers) and with him, hopefully Bargnani as well. Aside from DD, Bayliss, Davis and Johnson, they need to rebuild this whole roster. Does anyone know how many years/$s does Calderon still have on his contract?
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

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Originally Posted by karachi_hoops
agreed. Colangelo's basketball vision for Raptors is flawed. This would be the best time to let him go (when we have cap, possible top 5 pick and trade exemption, expirers) and with him, hopefully Bargnani as well. Aside from DD, Bayliss, Davis and Johnson, they need to rebuild this whole roster. Does anyone know how many years/$s does Calderon still have on his contract?

Calderon's contract expires after the 2013 season.

He makes 9 million this year, 9.78 next year, and 10.5 in the final year.
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Old 01-31-2011, 11:07 AM   #20
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

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Originally Posted by bokes15
A worse mess? I want to ask you honestly, how much further down can we go from where we are now? To challenge for the worst record of all time? Because we've already put our name in the hat for worst team in the league and have had some of the worst defense in NBA history over the past 2 seasons. I quite honestly would rather have a new guy with new ideas be given the chance to fix this mess than to give 5 more years to the guy who created this mess in the first place.


We have some young talent, cap space, what looks like decent draft picks and the TPE. We are in a very good position to start a rebuild. I thought that was odvious. How do you not see that?
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

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Originally Posted by b4ball
We have some young talent, cap space, what looks like decent draft picks and the TPE. We are in a very good position to start a rebuild. I thought that was odvious. How do you not see that?
Because our "young talent" isn't very talented, how do you not see that? Trust me, I like Amir Johnson, Demar Derozan, Ed Davis, Sonny Weems as much as the next guy, and I acknowledge Bargnani as a good player though I don't particularly like his style of play, but there are a ton of teams with similar records and a significantly greater level of young talent than what we have.

Memphis: Mayo/Gasol/Gay
NJ: Harris/Lopez/Favors
Minnesota: Beasley/Love/Brewer/Flynn
Sacramento: Evans/Cousins/Casspi

And I could just go on and on and on. Derozan is putting up good numbers this year but on a team like the Lakers or the Celtics (who we should be trying to emulate) he wouldn't even be starter material. Same goes for Bargnani, Weems, or Amir Johnson. Guys like Evans, Love, Lopez, Harris, Gasol, Gay, etc... they are either there already or would have legitimate potential to get there if given the opportunity.

As for our cap space, we don't have as much of it as you might think. The current cap situation is set at about 58M for this season. We currently have 67.5M tied up in our current contracts. Next season the NBA salary cap is presumably going down significantly, and we'll have 45M tied up in current contracts. So that might leave us room for one or two half decent signings since we are rarely to never able to attract big name guys to Toronto. Meanwhile other "rock bottom" teams like the Kings have 29M on the books in 2011-12 in addition to having legit young core players, the Nets are on the hook for 37M, the Grizz are at 36M, and again the examples are countless.

You can sugar coat, or maybe even just ignore how bad our situation is by comparison to most of the rest of the league, but the facts are there clear as day for anyone who wants to view them.
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:32 PM   #22
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

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Originally Posted by b4ball
We have some young talent, cap space, what looks like decent draft picks and the TPE. We are in a very good position to start a rebuild. I thought that was odvious. How do you not see that?

...and we've given all of that to BC before and look where it's gotten us?

Count me as someone who'd rather try and find an AA-style diamond in the rough, cheap, and young exec from a great team over giving all our assets to someone who's done nothing but abuse them before.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

Anyone saying we should re-sign Colangelo is a fool. Since our "hope for the future" is now Bargnani rather than Bosh, BC has put this team in an even worse situation than when he arrived. Not only should he not be re-signed, he should be fired before the end of this season, and should have been earlier than that if he wasn't being paid so god-damn much.

I don't want to hear that there is no one out there who could do a better job than BC. After the initial offseason of his Raptor's tenure (in which he selected Bargnani in a terrible draft), he made nothing but shit moves compounded be shittier moves, seasoned with many inconsequential moves.

Perhaps BC's worst sin has been keeping Bargnani around as it became obvious that "Il Mago" was a lazy retard, but wasting the full MLE on Kapono, trading away a first rounder for a massively over-paid and obviously washed-up JO, trading away another first rounder for the privilege of having Shawn Marion for a few weeks, signing Hedo Turkoglu, failing to trade away Calderon, just FAILing in general to build a team with any toughness or real talent around Bosh, taken together also constitute grounds for termination.

Colangelo may not be the worst GM in the NBA, but he's one of them. Whatever success he had in Phoenix was the result of his father's genius, Steve Nash's virtuosity, and the prestige of that franchise. For as long as BC is here, he will continue to construct teams that are incapable of playing defence or rebounding or doing anything else that involves having a little grit and balls, and he will most likely continue to pretend that Bargnani is not a big useless vagina. And for that, he can no longer be forgiven or tolerated.

Last edited by A.M.G. : 01-31-2011 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:12 PM   #24
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

Great thread guys. Lots of very smart insights on the situation. I believe bokes deserves a rep because he was right about his post. Our young talent is no where near the other bottom teams in the NBA. Other than Derozan and Davis, I don't see any other of the young guys have potential to be starters in the NBA some day. Potential is a key word because that still doesn't mean much.

He came in with an all-star power forward, cap space and a first overall pick. If he leaves, its with no all star, some cap space with bad contracts (25 million for Calerdon,Bargnani and Kleiza makes me nautious) and a top 5 pick. 2 playoff appearances in 5 years. Therefore he has failed as a GM and there is no sugar coating.

1 step forward (fixes mistake) and 2 steps backward (makes mistake) is getting this franchise no where. Frankly, the time is now. He does need to go.
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:18 PM   #25
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

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Originally Posted by SESSEL15
Great thread guys. Lots of very smart insights on the situation. I believe bokes deserves a rep because he was right about his post. Our young talent is no where near the other bottom teams in the NBA. Other than Derozan and Davis, I don't see any other of the young guys have potential to be starters in the NBA some day. Potential is a key word because that still doesn't mean much.

He came in with an all-star power forward, cap space and a first overall pick. If he leaves, its with no all star, some cap space with bad contracts (25 million for Calerdon,Bargnani and Kleiza makes me nautious) and a top 5 pick. 2 playoff appearances in 5 years. Therefore he has failed as a GM and there is no sugar coating.

1 step forward (fixes mistake) and 2 steps backward (makes mistake) is getting this franchise no where. Frankly, the time is now. He does need to go.

yep. well said. i dont get why people praise and treat BC as a genius because he has repeatedly gotten himself out of messes he made himself. Why does he continue to make bad mistakes and then get rid of himself from those mistakes? Is this what us Raptor fans have lowered ourselves too now? Some people on this forum and other forums treat BC as some genius because he got himself out of messes. jeez.

its a tough decision to make to keep or fire BC after the end of the season. Do we give him one more chance to see what he does with a high draft pick, some cap space? i do not know if i can can trust him anymore.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:35 AM   #26
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

If all we're looking for in a GM is someone who can get us out of bad situations then why didn't we just keep Wayne Embry? Don't we want a GM who doesn't make the franchise-hindering moves in the first place? I'd gladly keep Colangelo as an assistant GM for drastically less money and exclusively use him as a cleanup man but we all know his pride wouldn't let that happen.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:18 AM   #27
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

^^ Agree 100%
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

Its all about money. If they do re sign him...we might as well say good bye to Derozan and Davis. I dont think I can handle another 5 like I did the last 5 years. I cant believe how bright the future was for the raptors in 2006...
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:23 PM   #29
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

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Originally Posted by bokes15
That's the part that bothers me the most. If I take a shit in the kitchen and then I clean it off the floor should I be praised for that? Sure i'll give him some credit for being a pretty proactive GM but as others have said some of his core concepts on how to build a championship level team are flawed. I for one would be very nervous and skeptical about him being in a brand new situation where he has another shot at f*cking our team up, picking the wrong guy in the draft, and using our cap resources incorrectly. I believe it's a new year and it should be a fresh start for this organization. New management, new coach, new everything. Our record and our talent level speaks for itself.

Depends on how fast you clean the shit up. ;)

I think he's been able to "change" the makeup of the team no matter what situation we're in. JO, Marion ,Turk, etc

Eventually, he'll find a formula that works. I think he's as capable as any other GM. He probably shouldn't be making 5+mill or whatever tho...
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Old 02-03-2011, 01:16 PM   #30
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

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Originally Posted by bluerap
I remember when BC was hired there was a feeling that Toronto sports should look for established big name execs for the gm spots. When it looked like it was working out everyone was calling for the leafs to dump JFJ for Brian B. Now that looks like a total failure. Even when JP was canned I was hoping we'd go after an experienced GM with a winning track record.

I know that I am deemed a pro BC guy - but this post above is one of the most astute posts about the Raptors situations; all of Toronto's sport teams situation.

Great post.

The thing is we are back exactly where we were 5 years ago (by the way so are the Pacers and their GM Larry Bird).

The balance here - and honestly conceed that I dont know if BC is the guy to do it - is I think the Raptors Franchise still needs the "big name" and instant credibility of the "big time NBA vetern GM"; especially with young guys to build around; especially CB leaving the team; especially with the franchise rep not being a winning organization.

So can the Raptors afford to bring in the "AA like - talented insider"? Or are the Raptors forced to ensure they have the marque names to portray a franchise willing to win ??

I dont honestly know the answer. I suspect that bringing in the talented young insider under BC will be the game plan at MLSE.
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