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Old 02-03-2011, 03:23 PM   #31
Kujo
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

There's no way BC would accept being an assistant GM. I don't mind the idea, but that would never happen.

Many great points in this thread. I completely agree with everything A.M.G. said.

The bottom line is that BC has failed as a GM, and I have zero faith in handing him the keys, and letting him try to restructure this team once again. I'd be very scared with him picking a likely top 5 pick this year. Let's find a younger, and eager GM prospect that has been groomed in a top notch organization.

And another thing, a new GM would fire Jay Triano's azz as well. Something to look forward to.

Last edited by Kujo : 02-03-2011 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:24 PM   #32
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jballer
I know that I am deemed a pro BC guy - but this post above is one of the most astute posts about the Raptors situations; all of Toronto's sport teams situation.

Great post.

The thing is we are back exactly where we were 5 years ago (by the way so are the Pacers and their GM Larry Bird).

The balance here - and honestly conceed that I dont know if BC is the guy to do it - is I think the Raptors Franchise still needs the "big name" and instant credibility of the "big time NBA vetern GM"; especially with young guys to build around; especially CB leaving the team; especially with the franchise rep not being a winning organization.

So can the Raptors afford to bring in the "AA like - talented insider"? Or are the Raptors forced to ensure they have the marque names to portray a franchise willing to win ??

I dont honestly know the answer. I suspect that bringing in the talented young insider under BC will be the game plan at MLSE.

Nice paraphrase of my post, but you missed the point in the next line.
This team doesn't need an established GM, just an established President.
If BC hasn't been able to attract or keep big name talent, who else will.
Besides it only took AA 1 year to establish his credibility.
In the NBA most teams are built through the draft and trades (miami being the exception).
This is good news for us.
If we can draft well over the next 3 years and assemble a good nucleus we can contend. Once you have a legitimate play off team and you build a winning organization players will stick around.
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:35 PM   #33
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kujo
I'd be very scared with him picking a likely top 5 pick this year.


Lots of similar sentiment, but in reality BC has a very good draft record.
I still think he needs to go, but let's give credit where credit is due.

I know a lot of people think bargs was a terrible pick, but the draft class had a lot of question marks and everyone can agree that bargs would have at least been a good 3rd pick. Other years he has done really well with his position.
Amare, Marion, Davis, Derozan, michael finley, steve nash, stephen jackson, luol deng, marcin gortat, barbosa.

not a bad record.
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerap
Nice paraphrase of my post, but you missed the point in the next line.
This team doesn't need an established GM, just an established President.
If BC hasn't been able to attract or keep big name talent, who else will.
Besides it only took AA 1 year to establish his credibility.
In the NBA most teams are built through the draft and trades (miami being the exception).
This is good news for us.
If we can draft well over the next 3 years and assemble a good nucleus we can contend. Once you have a legitimate play off team and you build a winning organization players will stick around.

Nope I got the gist of your post.

My response is I simply dont know the answer. I admit that I dont know the answer and I admit I dont know if BC is the guy.

AA may indeed of established himself in under a year. Credability - local press loves him - etc. Thats baseball.

Basketball is a very different sport than baseball. In countless ways; but especially in the cult of the superstar or franchise player.

So yourpoint or proposed solution may be right ; but may not be.

Players want to play for the Lakers because ?? Kobe ? Phil ??? Jerry ??? Playoff wins ??? Playoff appearences ??? Team Culture ??? Always spending above the cap???

More liklely Kobe and Phil than all the other stuff but ...

What does it take in Toronto besides wins and playoff appearences ???

BC ?? Maybe Maybe not.

If not BC who else?

If BC alone will never be enough - something > Jay Triano???

Last edited by Jballer : 02-04-2011 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:51 AM   #35
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

To answer the above what it will take is drafting multiple good and hopefully a great player over the next few years of certain crappiness who will have no choice but to be here for a few years, establishing a winning team and then perhaps overpaying a few key pieces to get us over the top who should be willing to come here when it looks like we're winning and for the extra $$$.

The solution as of now begins with the draft not with signing quick-fix players so I don't really care to keep BC for the "prestige" factor that may or may not exist anymore with the way he behaved in the wake of Bosh leaving.

If we draft well and begin to win pay people enough they will play on our team. I'm far from convinced that BC will get us there though.
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:10 PM   #36
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

Isin't the near future predicated more on the new CBA? I mean even if we had two top 10 draft picks this year, it is expected to be a weak draft, much like the year we drafted Bargnani. And if the new CBA is slow to settle, or a resonable threat of a possible work stoppage the draft get's weaker and weaker.

I guess I'm not convinced that putting all our eggs in the draft basket is the right way to go. It's a start, but regardless of who you draft, having Calderon and Bargnani leaves you with the same problems of the last few years. So getting a few good draft picks is a step in the right direction, the rest of the issues also need to be resolved.

I think bad defense is contagious, and drafting rookies who see complacency at the defensive end is equal to waisting picks.
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:46 PM   #37
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

Well said, and I completely agree.

No matter how weak the draft may be, the fact remains that the team should get a top 5 pick, and the top 5 to me look pretty good. I couldn't care less about the rest of the draft, just the top of it.

As for bad defense being contagious, I'd agree that bringing a rookie into that type of environment could be a horrible thing. The entire team needs an makeover. New coach, systems, players. Too many random spare pieces thrown together.

The draft pick the Raptors get will hopefully be the start of a transformation this team desperately needs.

Last edited by Chamberlain : 02-04-2011 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 02-04-2011, 11:26 PM   #38
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

to change the face of this franchise and bring in a top 5 rookie into a good environment we need to get rid of Calderon and Bargnani. These two guys are no leaders for this team and their impact is negative. They have no hussle nor will they ever perform. Calderon is just getting old and is out of his prime so its very hard to really blame him. Bargs on the other hand is just a mess and no rookie should be brought in to play alongside this guy.

in addition JT needs to go and a new coach brought in. I am okay with a coach like Sam Mitchell who was emotional and got into his player's faces. We need a coach that challenges his players. JT is no coach. He is an assistant coach and just a very nice guy. These spoiled brats in the NBA need a hard noses no nonsense guy.

this is what i feel we need to do in order to change the dynamics and environment of this team.
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:54 PM   #39
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

Quote:
Originally Posted by bada bing
Calderon is just getting old and is out of his prime so its very hard to really blame him

I wouldn't say 19 assists last night is out of his prime. I think Calerdon gets alot of the blame for this teams horrid record. But I believe he does exactly what is asked of him to the fullest. Hes not going to score a ton of points but he knows how to get guys shoots. He defence is pretty crappy, can't forget that but if this team had more talent, I doubt he'd be getting the bad rap that he has been lately.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:37 PM   #40
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

I don't think Calderon deserves to be bashed, but he shouldn't be a Raptor any more.

I think a lot of teams would be happy to have Calderon, and the good aspects of his game would outweigh the bad on many teams. He's a good player- flawed, but less so than Bargnani, and unlike Bargnani he tries hard and seems like a good teammate.

He just doesn't fit on the current Raptors. They can't be paying a player of his age that much, and they badly need to establish some kind of defensive mentality on the team (not saying they have to prioritise defence over offence, but they can't continue being the league's worst defensive outfit year after year).
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:57 PM   #41
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

I think Jose does give effort and plays hard and is a great playmaker. However, with him, it`s more of physical limitations that are the problem. He just doesn`t have the lateral quickness to stay in front of someone. Also, he`s just not aggressive enough on offense and relies too much on the pick and roll to break defences down.

He`s played pretty well this year and his value is pretty high, especially after last night`s game. Hopefully some team in desperate need of a veteran point guard will ask BC about him.
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:10 PM   #42
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

I don't want to be known as a franchise that rewards management and staff for "trying."

In his defense, there were situations that didn't pan out well
Jermaine O'Neal was supposed to be a boost, but he was a bust
Same goes for Hedo and with Bosh joining the superfriends in South Beach I hate to say it's BC's fault, but again, it's his joto make sure that doesn't happen.

Even in Phoenix he came in with something already in place, can he REALLY build a team from the bottom up? I say I don't think so.
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:07 PM   #43
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Default Re: Raptors' Colangelo faces the music

He seriously needs to be fired.. he had his chance.. now let someone else have a turn.
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