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Old 12-06-2006, 08:03 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by jbrown3
Using the N word in any other situation other than an academic, literary setting, or other serious setting that does not put light to the word is wrong. There's no other way around, it should not be a source for laughs and it's not because humans no matter what country they are in are too sensitive.

It's because of the historical connotaion that it contains. It's tied to the worst period of American history. Using it lightly and comically almost shows utter disrespect for those who went through the horrible cruelty of slavery from which the word came forth. The N word is not simply just a word that has lost it's meaning in society over time. The historical connections that N word brings up are so recent and even if they weren't recent, are still of extreme importance to any person in the world, let alone America. So when someone decides to derive humor or relieve rage with the N word, they are saying that the absolutely disgusting act of slavery, cruelty, and white power are ok to put lightness to and to not take seriously.

I don't disagree, but I'd like to just make a statement about "the worst period of American history". Yes, the cruelty of slavery is abhorrent and unforgivable, but is it truly worse than what happened to the true Native Americans? How many people of African descent do you see on a daily basis. Now, how many people of Native American descent do you see? Our forefathers committed crimes on them that make what they did to the slaves seem like a freakin' picnic.

Here's a great, simple example. How many times as a child did you play "cowboys and indians"? Did you ever play "masters and n!ggers?" Does the idea of that kind of game being played by white kids offend you? If so, why doesn't "cowboys and indians"?

Now, I'm not pointing a finger at the black community and telling them they have it easy, they should just cope, or that they're overreacting towards racism. Racism is still -very- prevalent in America, it's just that we've become so politically correct that it's very well hidden until it's just too big to be kept under wraps. The media hides it, the sugar-coated two-faces liars who smile and then call people names behind your back hide it, but when something gets too big to hide, everyone sees it (*cough* Katrina *cough*).

However, I do think it needs to be put into perspective. One man yelling a racial slur to an audience that paid to see him is not the same thing as someone tying a person to the bumper of a truck and dragging him around until he dies. It's not someone treating human lives as property. It's not giving someone a blanket full of a disease that will ravage their entire race.
But if you want to get a reaction out of people, this is the topic you pull out. Talking about anything of the other things our country has done (or is currently doing) that is inhumane and unforgivable is okay, but god forbid you say the N word. Of all the words that start with the letter "N", only -one- of them is the "N" word.

I guess what I'm trying to say is by all means carry the flag into battle against racism, but don't start beating the war drums because the enemy called you a bad name. We tend to put quite a bit of weight into words, when it's the actions we should be paying attention to.
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:03 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JalenRawley
You've already got the key to the whole thing here Bagel:

Anyone with even a hint of an IQ can discern the difference.

The overwhelming majority of Americans are lacking a hint of an IQ. People only take things on face value and rarely look further for clarification, explanation, or reason behind it. They take their initial reaction to it, ignore all facts, reasoning and logic and think that everyone else in the world should feel the same way they do.

Hmmm...I guess I do give Americans too much credit. I guess most americans think this way:

- The word N*gg*r is bad. (Continues munching on cheetos).


Also, I tend to think African Americans are the most sensitive group to any criticism, mocking, joking, etc., even if its in good fun.

Think about it, take Simpsons for example, they make fun of EVERY group, jews, italians, irish, hispanics, indians, gays, ripe with stereotypes...but not black people. Black people are always shown in a good light (like Dr. Hibbard). You just can't joke about black people ever. Do African Americans not have a sense of humor about themselves? Something to think about.....

On a side note, isn't it funny you can't write Andy ****'s name because of his last name? heh heh.....
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Old 12-06-2006, 09:01 PM   #33
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You think he was justified in it? Does "you're not funny" really warrant a 5 minute tirade? Wow.

Edit: Are you black?

Actually, this is really a good question. I'll see if I can answer it and have it come across clearly instead of as contradictory as it seems.

Although it's -very- unprofessional, I think he was justified in going off on the person in the crowd. However, I don't think he was justified in using the approach he took. No good could have ever come of it. He could said a million different things and nobody would've ever heard a word about it, but he chose one word.

I don't know Michael Richards personally. I don't know if he truly doesn't like black people and truly meant what he was saying, if he was just pissed and was saying the harshest thing he could think of saying, or what. To be honest, I don't care, it just doesn't bother me. If you want to see harsh, watch footage of Larry David or Bill Hicks going off on the audience. What Michael Richards did was -tame-, and people have flipped out of their damn minds about it.

Most people know Michael Richards as "Kramer" from Seinfeld. In fact, this topic doesn't even call him "Michael Richards", everyone knows him as "Kramer". I know him as Michael Richards, from the show Fridays, and from his standup that I've gotten to see a handful of times. He's not this goofy, lovable nut named Cosmo Kramer, but an eclectic, edgy, and misunderstood comic, much like the aforementioned Bill Hicks and Larry David. People are freaking out because "Kramer", the lovable hipster doofus who came into our homes every Thursday night for a decade yelled racial slurs at someone in his audience. Never mind why, never mind what caused it, never mind the fact that he didn't beat the audience member senseless, all the man did was call another man a name. Are we third graders? Is this really that big of a deal?

Have you ever been in a fight before? When you're up in someone's face, getting ready to throw down, do you whisper sweet nothings in their ear or do you go for the jugular and say the thing that you KNOW will get a rise out of them? See, what cracks me up is that people can't even consider this a possibility. "No way, he's obviously a racist!" Well, maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But if the only piece of evidence you have that a man is racist is because he called another man a ******. By that logic -everyone- who uses that word is a racist. If you watch the video of Michael Richards, he says, "Alright, you see? This shocks you. It shocks you to see what's buried beneath you stupid mother****ers." And again later, "You see? There's still those words, those words." He's talking about how there's certain words that cut -right through- everything and make an impact. Words. Not actions, words.

I'm not a stand up comic, but I've been a musician for nearly 20 years. I've dealt with -plenty- of hecklers in my time.. when you perform in front of people who are served alcohol, it comes with the territory. The professional way to handle a situation like this is to point the offender(s) out to security and go about your show.. but this sort of thing pisses you off. I've seen and been involved in plenty of fights over this sort of thing. Again, it comes with the territory. 99% of the time, it's some drunk prick in the audience yelling racial slurs at one of us, not the other way around.

There's a nice hypothetical situation to think about: If Michael Richards was black, and the audience member was calling HIM the N word, would this be front page news? Would this be -that- big of a deal? The answer is no, it wouldn't, and don't even think for a second that it would be otherwise because this happens ALL of the damn time.

And to answer the question about my own ethnicity: I am a 32 year old, white (Irish/German/Slovak) male who grew up in Gary Indiana. The majority of my friends growing up were hispanic and black. Being non-black in Gary Indiana meant -I- was the minority growing up, and although I did see a lot (and received more than my fair share) of racism, it only ever came from ignorant people. My family worked hard to get the hell out of Gary and only got as far as the neighboring city, Hammond. I've been one of the lucky ones who has gotten away from the ghettos of Northwest Indiana, but they've already sucked me back in three times now, and I'm pretty damn close to a fourth. It's like a black hole, and there's this aura of misery around the entire area because everybody hates everybody there for absolutely no reason at all.

Quite simply, I grew up. Race never bothered me, and I've always had a pretty dark sense of humor, so I've taken pride in saying the things people don't want to hear. I've taken my share of lumps for it, I assure you, but I've also given a few educational beatings of my own. For me personally, I don't believe in racism. Why hate someone for the color of their skin or where they come from when every single person has so many individual characteristics to hate them for. I despise ignorance, and ignorance knows no race, color or creed. And this entire situation with Michael Richards, from the people disrupting his show, to the way he handled it, to the way the media blew it up to help distract the people from our country's unforgivable actions both foreign and domestic, to the way people have turned this into a billion different arguments, all over one word. That's just 100% pure ignorance, and it makes me sick to see that the overwhelming majority of people in this country, let alone this world, are -this- ignorant.

But by all means, continue. You're the ones paying the price, not me.
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Old 12-06-2006, 10:50 PM   #34
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Andy ****...this is Andy **** we are talking about.
Dude is a clown...but after every dramatic event this sh*t always has to happen. You have to hush up about it for a while.

I don't know...I'm not black or white and speaking from my point of view I think the whole black and white thing is a little over done now a days.

I know there are still a whole lot of racist good old boy white folks out there...but what about the black comedians that clown on white folks as crackers etc?

But any how...what Kramer did was wrong and he does need to check himself cause there is some hate underneath it all. But this incident with Andy **** is just him being a jackass once again to get laughs. Been oing it his whole career.
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:14 PM   #35
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I don't really care about the history. You're gonna let a word control you? The only reason the word has any power behind it is because it could cause blacks to feel hurtful, shameful, inferior and can make blacks become violent. That's why it's powerful. If black people don't have that reaction to the word, then the word would be meaningless. The only people who gives power to the "N" word are blacks themselves.
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:14 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by crisoner
Andy ****...this is Andy **** we are talking about.
Dude is a clown...but after every dramatic event this sh*t always has to happen. You have to hush up about it for a while.

I don't know...I'm not black or white and speaking from my point of view I think the whole black and white thing is a little over done now a days.

I know there are still a whole lot of racist good old boy white folks out there...but what about the black comedians that clown on white folks as crackers etc?

But any how...what Kramer did was wrong and he does need to check himself cause there is some hate underneath it all. But this incident with Andy **** is just him being a jackass once again to get laughs. Been oing it his whole career.

I mean, you can like Andy Dork or dislike him. But does he really need to make an official PR apology for mocking Michael Richards? Our society is officially insane....
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:17 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by LongBeachLakers
I don't really care about the history. You're gonna let a word control you? The only reason the word has any power behind it is because it could cause blacks to feel hurtful, shameful, inferior and can make blacks become violent. That's why it's powerful. If black people don't have that reaction to the word, then the word would be meaningless. The only people who gives power to the "N" word are blacks themselves.

Exactly. Wow, it's really easy to push a black man's buttons. Just say the N word and a witch hunt ensues. Don't give power to it, rise about it and ignore it. When you hear Kramer's words, don't have rallies and interviews and public apologies and healing and etc. etc. Just think, "Eh, Richards is a fool. Whatever." and just move on.....

That's how I reacted with Mel Gibson's words. What do I care if he's anti-semetic. He's a moron. So I won't see his movies. Move on.....
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:23 PM   #38
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Exactly. Wow, it's really easy to push a black man's buttons. Just say the N word and a witch hunt ensues. Don't give power to it, rise about it and ignore it. When you hear Kramer's words, don't have rallies and interviews and public apologies and healing and etc. etc. Just think, "Eh, Richards is a fool. Whatever." and just move on.....

That's how I reacted with Mel Gibson's words. What do I care if he's anti-semetic. He's a moron. So I won't see his movies. Move on.....
It's kinda hard to just "move on" when a group has been discriminated for so long. And if I were to here some person say something like that to my ethnicity I would be pissed, and I just wouldn't move on? F-ck that, if Richards made comments like that to me and my boys about Albanians, no way he's getting out of the club without a broken jaw.
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:01 AM   #39
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Default It's not just history, it's still in the present

Also, there hasn't been that much for blacks to move on to. I mean honestly, the blacks still face difficulties in America today even if it's subtle. A lot of the white social construction from the times of slavery and of the Nadir of the early 1900's where lynchings were rampant still emanates into today's society. So it's not just that blacks are giving the word meaning because they react to it, it's because whites still give it that meaning by how some act today. Honestly, America is not equal, so racial slurs still hold a bearing!

Also to put it simply, it's easy to say not to react to say to not react to a word or to just brush it off when your race hasn't been subject to the same trauma so recently. Whites really don't understand how easy they have it in America. They've always had others just like them in most schools, jobs, and social settings. Whites rarely are the 'odd' person out in America. White perspective is lacking on these matters, and trust me I know because I'm mostly white and am part Native American but still, mostly white so I've felt that lack of perspective the more I have learned about how much slavery and post-emancipation has impacted America's present.
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Old 12-07-2006, 10:48 AM   #40
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the N-word is just a symptom of a whole host of other problems......

Some people are really sensitive to the word....others arent

to me richards got exactly what he deserved for his un-funny hate-filled desperate racist tirade...

I think what happened to him was very good for him..

people who attempt to defend richards need to go learn about the history behind his racist rant. then they will understand why it isnt at all funny or appropriate...

as far as people using the N-word...

Im not a person who thinks only blacks can use it.. my wife is spanish & Italian and she occasionally uses it... But here's the key

I know her and I know what the context is in which she is using it

^thats the key right there

I know what she is trying to say.. We have already reached a point where we have that understanding... I knew an Irish girl who hung out black people and occasionally used the word, and nobody got mad at her either...

Why? because they know her and they know the context in which the word was being used.....

If I have a sister and she is fat and I call her a fat pig....that is one thing...If some stranger walks by and hears me call her a fat pig and then he tries to call her one too....he gets punched in his face

why? because he doesnt know her like that.

If I walk thru and Italian neighborhood and hear Italians calling each other daegos or goombah (sp?)... Do I get to walk up to an Italian now and say it too because they said to each other? HELL NO. not if I dont wanna fight these dudes..

people in this country need to use common sense sometimes....

the word has different meaning coming from different people in different situations and if the meaning isnt clear, people will be offended.

you dont just use the word... you need to use in its proper setting..

as far as comedians go, they to be funny when using the word or the people will be offended

you cant compare jews and asians and other groups to blacks because those groups came here by choice..... they werent brought here as slaves and they dont have the relationship to whites and this society that blacks have experienced..

add that to the fact that racism still occurs today and blacks are the easiest group to discriminate against because you can identify most black people on sight....(notice how the lighter you get, the more you automatically 'fit in' to society in ways that darker people dont.....) how many white guys have ever been blazed up by police like Amadou Diallo, or the Sean Bell kid or the other guy who got muredered in 2003?

things like that give people of color pause and makes them sensitive to society and their lack of respect for people of color

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Old 12-07-2006, 11:32 AM   #41
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I dont think Michael is a racist anyways, nor would I care if he were. People are shocked too much today, but we've all thought something racist now and then. Yes we have.


The two guys plotted to piss Richards off so badly that he'd go on a regrettable racial tirade, in order for them to attempt a suit to milk some cash from a celeb. They are suing for emotional distress or some such bull****. Gimme a break.


People are burning "kramer" at the stake for using the N word and so and so, yet how many more people use it every single day out on the streets or wherever they may be? Is this suddenly big news?? Or is it big news because Kramer said it, and well everyone cant believe a celebrity like Kramer could ever have something like that stored up inside him? No no, that can only come from ordinary folk.

It's ****ing done with, get over it.

I understand how life works and I think the way it works at times is piss poor. I mean do his views really bother people that much?? Do people really give a **** when a celeb thinks a certain way, even if it might have been highly regretted or said in the heat of the moment??
Is he suddenly a horrible person now?? I mean ffs people, come on.

Learn to live with this because it's never going away, even in todays so called "advanced times". Look at the planet today and try telling me we're supposed to be advanced without suppressing a laugh. People are plain and simply ****ed up. ****ed up big time.


****, I'll bet we dont even know what those closest to us really think. They keep their true feelings secretive, but if we all harbor a negative thought in our minds now and then, are we all suddenly horrible people to? Or just those who let their secrets slip?

It's the world today man. Just gotta cope with it as best we may. It sucks of course, but it's nothing new.

He may be stupid but I wouldnt call him horrible. He said something he regrets. He had an angry fit of rage and was very verbally abusive.
He isnt a Klan member, he isnt going out there and trying to hurt black people. He's not some threat.
Havnt we all said something regrettable?
I mean in moments of anger, I myself have thought of wanting to beat the **** out of people, or thinking "man, I'd like to kill that sonofa*****." Am I horrible for thinking such thoughts?
I have wanted to torture people who hurt animals for example. And it can be very graphic, what goes on in my head. Am I awful??
No, because I think in every single person, we have both the capability within us to hurt and to help. To be mean and to be kind. That goes for everyone.
It's within us all, these two extremes.

Yet the guy has done alot for charity, and has been noted to do other good deeds. So wouldnt that also make him a good guy? See what I mean??

So you see, we are all shades of gray. Sometimes we are nice, and sometimes we are not. To say he's a bad guy for that one thing you are stuck on, would actually make you sound dumber than Richards did on that night.

Rape and murder is obviously one event that can make you think of someone as evil or horrible. Is saying something stupid the same thing? If you go 200 days doing nothing but good things and then one day slip up, have a bad day, and say something really offensive, does that make you a horrible person?

Kramer didnt rape or kill anyone here..a little perspective.

Basically perhaps it comes down to if the insult was truly offensive enough to a certain individual to make them think of someone in such a harsher manner.
I mean ****, some people think Charles Manson is a good guy.

I'm not saying he isnt a racist. I am saying he did something stupid. What's the difference? If he never said these thoughts everyone would still think of him as a funny guy. Probably a cool cat. He could have still thought that way however.

You think he actually would like to revert back to those times? Nah. He said something to get back at his hecklers, and took it too far. When you're in a rage, you can do lots of things, like murder for example. I think saying something awful is a lot less worrisome than doing something awful.
You can spout a ton of **** in an insane rant, then realize you said something pretty vile and feel remorse over it. Some regret. You get so worked up you say some ****, but you dont really believe what you're saying, which is why you never take action upon it. The guy has apologized, and now the two guys who started the **** wanna sue because they felt hurt..gag me. They're taking advantage of it, using the race card..they're basically using the fact their own people were disserviced way back in the day. That's just as vile to me.

He isnt actually hurting other people. He made a mistake, he apologized. Get over it. The N word has been thrown around so much now, even by those same people who you would think would know better then to use it. But they've ****ing began to use it as a friendly term. To me, that's just as ****ing dense.

That's my opinion anyways. I'm not gonna change it. I look at society as warped. People are warped. We all have some bad in us. Some people find a certain something bad enough that to them they consider the offender to be a bad guy. To others, they may just see that same "bad guy" as a stupid guy who made a mistake. Some cases arent so clear cut, like this one.

Had Kramer lynched a black man, then yeah I'd say he was a bad guy. In this case I just think he has some feelings he should get counselled for, and make some peace with. Besides that, he was just dumb to ****ing go the route he did with it.
You think he's bad on the sole basis he feels that way and said so. Fine, that offends you more than it does me. You look at it differently then I do.
People have different perspectives on what being a bad guy might be is all.

Words to me are only words. And actions speak alot louder than words do, for my own perspective they really do.
I have been friends with people that think a certain harsh way towards other people, and sometimes we dont agree on different things at all. But you realize they're just words, and they dont act upon these words because they realize in a way that it's wrong. Nobody is perfect.

I mean I despise people who hunt for sport. I ****ing hate them. I wanna slaughter them and I wanna gut them. I'd like to say that to their faces, and in certain situations I probably would. Does that make me really bad? No, because I realize that doing that wouldnt be right at all. I'd never do it, despite me saying I'd like to.

If you let words hurt you in todays age, I personally dont see how you'd ever be able to handle living in todays times.
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Old 12-07-2006, 12:11 PM   #42
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^this jack ass is still defending the guy....


if you dont care as much as you claim, you wouldnt feel the need to write a novel defending kramer and villifying everybody else to excuse his dumb actions...


*shakes head in disbelief*
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Old 12-07-2006, 01:17 PM   #43
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^this jack ass is still defending the guy....


if you dont care as much as you claim, you wouldnt feel the need to write a novel defending kramer and villifying everybody else to excuse his dumb actions...


*shakes head in disbelief*


Fine, he was a racist prick there. And he was.


I will still find him funny on Seinfeld.
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