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Old 05-31-2011, 10:41 AM   #61
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

I don't know man, I think you are overvaluing Wallace a bit, or maybe underrating how Portland feels about Batum. I think if they could fill their PG hole and play a Batum/Milsap combination for Wallace's minutes, they'd be thrilled. I'm not saying Wallace isn't valuable or won't be missed at all, but you have to give something to get something and they certainly get something.

Not so sure Milsap is the best player on Utah by any means. Even if he is, that's not a recipe for success. He didn't have a great year and he doesn't fit well with Jefferson. Jefferson gives you a little more size and length up front and I think if you keep him at PF he'll be very good for you, next to FAvors/Okur,both of whom compliment his game well. You get Wallace and you make Jefferson a better player, so whether Milsap was your "best player" is kind of irrelevant. I don't see AK back if Wallace is. They want to give Hayward some SF minutes too, which might mean Wallace still has to play 4 here and there and take a little beating.

O'Connor might take a big I guess, but Knight's stock seems to be going up significantly and he and Walker both have the intangibles and shooting that Harris lacks. They just went out and got Favors and they can get a solid big at 12. I think at this point they'll probably go with Knight and someone like Markieff Morris or Tristan Thompson at 12. They could also go Valanciuans/Kanter with Fredette at 12.
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:25 AM   #62
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

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I think you are overvaluing Wallace a bit, or maybe underrating how Portland feels about Batum.

The trade for Wallace was off. They threw in another 1st round pick to make it happen. Apparently something no one else was ready to do. He's their 2nd best player now, in his prime and a perfect fit there. They love Batum but he is young and can play with Wallace. They love him so much he was benched in favor of Wallace.

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I think if they could fill their PG hole and play a Batum/Milsap combination for Wallace's minutes, they'd be thrilled.

Sure if the pg was a better player than Wallace. They already have their pg position filled.

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I'm not saying Wallace isn't valuable or won't be missed at all, but you have to give something to get something and they certainly get something.

They get a lesser player in Harris and a back-up in Millsap. Don't see it.

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Not so sure Milsap is the best player on Utah by any means.

Who is? He was their 2nd best player when Boozer was there and Okur was healthy as far as I'm concerned.

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Even if he is, that's not a recipe for success. He didn't have a great year and he doesn't fit well with Jefferson.

He had a nice year and would have done better if they didn't get someone to play alongside him that does basically the same thing.

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Jefferson gives you a little more size and length up front

Who cares? He's not as good.

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I think if you keep him at PF he'll be very good for you

He'll put up numbers. More to the game than that though. Besides he's highly overpaid.

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next to FAvors/Okur,both of whom compliment his game well.

Okur might never play again and is also highly overpaid and one dimensional. Is Favors future at the 5 and is it now?

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You get Wallace and you make Jefferson a better player, so whether Milsap was your "best player" is kind of irrelevant.

It's all about talent so I don't think it's irrelevant.

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I don't see AK back if Wallace is.

I don't either but I don't see Wallace coming as much as I'd love to have him. They should have gave up the picks to get him if they had a clue.

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d they can get a solid big at 12.

Solid isn't what they need. They've never had a great center. It's time for a huge upgrade.

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They could also go Valanciuans/Kanter with Fredette at 12.

Kanter sounds like the way to go to me.

Last edited by Xiao Yao You : 06-01-2011 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:21 AM   #63
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

- Favors is going to get his chance after being the centerpiece of the deal for your franchise player. you don't throw away Deron Williams for nothing.

- The Blazers do not feel like they have their PG. They like Miller, but might not even pick up his option and have been said to be interested in Harris multiple times. He is younger, faster and better overall.

- Wallace is the best player in the deal, but you get 2 quality impact players for him basically. You get younger too. They like Wallace better than Batum, mostly due to his scoring, but my point was that it is a minor downgrade in return for 2 upgrades. Milsap won't necessarily be on the bench either. He'd have a pretty good shot to start next to LA with Oden/Camby off the bench. Something like that at least.

- If you keep playing Wallace at the 4, he's going to end up hurt again.

- You might only get a solid big at 12 and that might not be what you prefer, but you aren't getting a franchise big at 3 and you aren't replacing Favors before he has even had a shot.

Random question, if Sap is kept, would you do a deal based around Rip Hamilton for Al Jefferson?
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:14 PM   #64
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

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Favors is going to get his chance after being the centerpiece of the deal for your franchise player. you don't throw away Deron Williams for nothing.

You don't trade your best player and best contract to do that though. They did throw Deron away. Took the 2nd offer without shopping him.

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The Blazers do not feel like they have their PG. They like Miller, but might not even pick up his option and have been said to be interested in Harris multiple times. He is younger, faster and better overall.

He's younger and faster but his best ball appears to already be behind him. Better? All Miller does is win everywhere he goes. I'd love to trade pg's with them. I'd love Wallace too but I'd be looking to shop Jefferson and Okur before I'd be trading Millsap.

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Wallace is the best player in the deal

Millsap is comparable but he'd be on the bench in Portland(might be in Utah too as crazy as that is)

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You get younger too.

Do they need to get younger again?

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They like Wallace better than Batum, mostly due to his scoring, but my point was that it is a minor downgrade in return for 2 upgrades.

Minor? What does Batum do better than Wallace other than shooting 3's?

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Milsap won't necessarily be on the bench either. He'd have a pretty good shot to start next to LA with Oden/Camby off the bench. Something like that at least.

They don't want Aldridge at the 5 if they can help it.

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If you keep playing Wallace at the 4, he's going to end up hurt again.

Sure but he's a player wherever he plays.

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You might only get a solid big at 12 and that might not be what you prefer, but you aren't getting a franchise big at 3 and you aren't replacing Favors before he has even had a shot.

Who's talking about replacing him? Jazz have no center! They don't need a solid 4. It's the one thing they don't need. They need to trade one of them they already have and it should be Jefferson. Why they ever got him when they had Millsap is beyond me.

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Random question, if Sap is kept, would you do a deal based around Rip Hamilton for Al Jefferson?

You certainly have to consider it if it's the best deal you can get for Jefferson. Rip is a good fit.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:21 PM   #65
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

Sounds like Monta Ellis is available. He'd certainly be worth going after. The go to guy star caliber player they are missing. Would be the best 2 they've had outside Pistol.
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:04 AM   #66
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

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Chris Mannix: Deal with Rubio likely means Jonny Flynn will be on the move. Rubio will be given every chance to start, play big minutes. Twitter


If there was any truth to the rumors of him to Utah?
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Old 06-03-2011, 03:46 PM   #67
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

It will cost you Favors I imagine. Maybe something based around Favors and Bell? GS gets the young defensive big they want and saves money. Utah gets a top end scorer without giving up anyone they hugely depend on.

also going off my Wallace trade idea above, there was an interesting idea posed on Hoopsworld that was similar. Batum and Miller for Harris and Bell. Portland keeps Wallace, still gets HArris.
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:53 PM   #68
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

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It will cost you Favors I imagine. Maybe something based around Favors and Bell? GS gets the young defensive big they want and saves money. Utah gets a top end scorer without giving up anyone they hugely depend on.

They have this year's 3rd ,the other lottery and GS and their own picks next year too which could both be good as well. Only problem with that deal is you're not supposed to trade bigs for little guys but again you'd have to consider it getting a proven go-to guy and the fact that the game is about little guys that can get to the rim rather than dominating bigs now anyway. They might be interested in Miles/Haywood more than Bell too.

Quote:
also going off my Wallace trade idea above, there was an interesting idea posed on Hoopsworld that was similar. Batum and Miller for Harris and Bell. Portland keeps Wallace, still gets HArris.

I just saw where Portland might actually consider trading Batum now. Not sure Harris is enough to get it done for them though. Jazz would probably have to give up a young prospect in that one too.
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Old 06-05-2011, 12:09 PM   #69
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
They have this year's 3rd ,the other lottery and GS and their own picks next year too which could both be good as well. Only problem with that deal is you're not supposed to trade bigs for little guys but again you'd have to consider it getting a proven go-to guy and the fact that the game is about little guys that can get to the rim rather than dominating bigs now anyway. They might be interested in Miles/Haywood more than Bell too.



I just saw where Portland might actually consider trading Batum now. Not sure Harris is enough to get it done for them though. Jazz would probably have to give up a young prospect in that one too.

Not sure Harris is enough? Pretty sure it would be a question the other way around. Is Batum enough to get Harris.

as far as the Elliss deal I mentioned, Bell was a salary throw in, not someone they would desire. Utah would have to decide if they felt they could get a replacement C for Favors in the draft.
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Old 06-05-2011, 01:08 PM   #70
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

They aren't looking to deal Batum. If they did it would have to be for more than a bad contract and a guy past his prime.

The Jazz would have to decide if they want a proven go to guy over potential in the Ellis deal.
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:14 AM   #71
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

I'm a fan of Ellis, but wouldn't the Jazz have the same problem that the Warriors had which is they'd be too small in the backcourt?
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:41 AM   #72
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

I think the size of their backcourt is the worst of their problems.

I would have agreed with you a few years back. but there are a lot more small shooting guards today than there were. It's all about star power and he's a legit go-to guy just hitting his stride. After Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Wade and Carmelo he's as good as it gets the past couple years. Maybe they can find a bigger point guard to play alongside him in time too though that's the hardest thing to come by.
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:13 PM   #73
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
They aren't looking to deal Batum. If they did it would have to be for more than a bad contract and a guy past his prime.

The Jazz would have to decide if they want a proven go to guy over potential in the Ellis deal.

Nate Mcmillan has already said they need to clear out the wing spot a little. Rudy and probably Batum will be gone IMO. Wallace will be a pure 3(has repeatedly said he doesn't want to play 4) as he is a building block type if they keep him. They have also repeatedly gone after Harris. He is not considered a salary dump. Bell is just a throw in to make the money work. He is counted as zero value. A good way to even it out might be to take Bell out and do it like this

Batum,Babbitt and A.Miller for D.Harris and G.Hayward. I think Portland would be plenty willing to do this trade if Utah was.

Harris is in his prime and fits in a backcourt with either Roy or Matthews/Fernandez. He fits the athletic, defensive mold Portland looks for. His ability to play off ball unlike Miller will be key. He is 7 years younger than Miller, a better defender and a better overall player. They want someone who can hang with guys like Westbrook and Rose. Hayward's shooting stroke would be a nice compliment to Wallace at the 3. He looks a lot more likely to be an NBA player than Babbitt.

Last edited by Nastradamus : 06-07-2011 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:20 PM   #74
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong
I'm a fan of Ellis, but wouldn't the Jazz have the same problem that the Warriors had which is they'd be too small in the backcourt?

Yah, you can't really work Harris and Monta together. You'd have to flip Harris to a 3rd team in the deal. Harris,Favors for Monta, Harris for some sort of SG with size. Draft Knight at 5 to play with him. He has pretty good size and length. Darius Morris/Malcolm Lee would be even better but 12 is arguably too early.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:38 AM   #75
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Default Re: Who should the Utah Jazz get in the offseason?

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Nate Mcmillan has already said they need to clear out the wing spot a little. Rudy and probably Batum will be gone

Maybe but Harris is the best they can do? Roy's the one to go if they can pull it off.

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Wallace will be a pure 3

Ideally yes but when everyone is hurt again they'll play him where they have to.

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(has repeatedly said he doesn't want to play 4)

What he wants won't matter if they need him up front.

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They have also repeatedly gone after Harris.

They might want him but at what price? Maybe they could have got him before the Jazz if they'd wanted to pay the right price?

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He is not considered a salary dump.

To the Jazz he should be.

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Bell is just a throw in to make the money work. He is counted as zero value.

He'd be a nice vet at the end of the bench not in his role with the Jazz.

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A good way to even it out might be to take Bell out and do it like this

Batum,Babbitt and A.Miller for D.Harris and G.Hayward. I think Portland would be plenty willing to do this trade if Utah was.

Now that makes a lot more sense for the Jazz and Portland might do it if they get Hayward too. Jazz might want one of their 2 young pgs, or Rudy or the British big they have in Europe though.

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Harris is in his prime

Age wise he should be but he peaked 3 years ago. Hasn't approached it sense.

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His ability to play off ball unlike Miller will be key. He is 7 years younger than Miller, a better defender and a better overall player.

That's very arguable. He's younger but already declining. He is better defensively but all Andre does is win.

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Hayward's shooting stroke would be a nice compliment to Wallace at the 3.

Assuming he can guard anyone.

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He looks a lot more likely to be an NBA player than Babbitt.

He should.

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Yah, you can't really work Harris and Monta together.

I'd take Harris and Monta together over Harris and anyone else the Jazz have. The Jazz look like the worst team in the league right now. You can get a player like Ellis you don't worry about having a small backcourt.
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