Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Toronto Raptors Forum

Toronto Raptors Forum Toronto Raptors message board - Toronto Raptors forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-16-2011, 11:03 PM   #31
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,282
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
If you can assume that the sample is random (I mean, in this case, if there is no relation between visiting RealGM and being a Kevin Love fan instead of any other player's fan) then 11000 people is a huge number. You could take all the basketball fans in the world and the percentage wouldn't change in one point.

It is like if you throwed a coin 11000 times... you will get 50% heads... no more than 51% or less than 49%
But how in the world could you come to that conclusion though? Maybe if it was one of those ESPN.com polls that showed you specifically where the votes were coming from and how many from each specific area but it's not. It's a random 11k votes coming from who knows where and that's not nearly a large enough sample for you to think that.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:05 PM   #32
Chamberlain
Riggin' for Wiggins!
 
Chamberlain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cape Breton Island
Posts: 4,242
Default Re: Kevin Love

Thanks for the math lesson. It was never my strongest subject in school.

I would like you to conduct that experiment in your free time and get back to me with the results.

Can I ask you again, though.. how is Kevin Love overrated? Because half of the people who voted on who got snubbed voted him? Even when those same fans didn't even come close to voting him into the original game?
Chamberlain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:09 PM   #33
DJMason
High School JV MVP
 
DJMason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 694
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
If you can assume that the sample is random (I mean, in this case, if there is no relation between visiting RealGM and being a Kevin Love fan instead of any other player's fan) then 11000 people is a huge number. You could take all the basketball fans in the world and the percentage wouldn't change in one point.

It is like if you throwed a coin 11000 times... you will get 50% heads... no more than 51% or less than 49%

I hate to be too much of a stats nerd on this, but the problem with the RealGM poll is not that RealGM visitors might be biased towards Kevin Love, but the fact that in in order for it poll to mean anything, the population of people who responded has to it has be a fair representation of all NBA fans. Among other things, the fact that you have to be someone who'd bother to become a member of RealGM and then be the type of person who bothers to answer online surveys (many people including myself not being that type of person) means that the people who answered that survey are hardly your typical NBA fan who casually watches the league.

Furthermore there is no statistical reason ever why a survey that samples more people should be preferred over one that doesn't. I also think it's splitting hairs to say that the question "Who should be an allstar?" which is what is posed to allstar voters and the question "Who should have been selected as an allstar?" are significantly different enough to make any difference in the reasons why a person would pick someone.

I think I'm officially done with my stats rant and this thread. I think it's pretty clear that Love is not overrated by the average NBA fan, especially when you consider that with his stats basically anything short of calling him MVP can't really constitute overrating him.
DJMason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:10 PM   #34
FCardelle
High School JV MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 678
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
But how in the world could you come to that conclusion though? Maybe if it was one of those ESPN.com polls that showed you specifically where the votes were coming from and how many from each specific area but it's not. It's a random 11k votes coming from who knows where and that's not nearly a large enough sample for you to think that.
Yes, it could be biased. For example, because of an article in RealGM to support Kevin Love for all-star (just an example). But this is the best data that I have. And I don't really have a reason to think that the data are biased. So I have to think that a big percentage of NBA fans think that he should be an all-star...This is how social sciences work...
But, what's the point in questioning the poll? Don't you guys think that Kevin Love deserves the all-star pick, after all?
FCardelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:14 PM   #35
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,282
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
Yes, it could be biased. For example, because of an article in RealGM to support Kevin Love for all-star (just an example). But this is the best data that I have. And I don't really have a reason to think that the data are biased. So I have to think that a big percentage of NBA fans think that he should be an all-star...This is how social sciences work...
But, what's the point in questioning the poll? Don't you guys think that Kevin Love deserves the all-star pick, after all?
I haven't been involved in this thread since the first page, so i'm curious what exactly your argument is. That Kevin Love does NOT deserve an all-star spot?
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:16 PM   #36
bluerap
Local High School Star
 
bluerap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,031
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamberlain
How is 48% of an almost minuscule number of people voting about who got snubbed as an All-Star selection equal to Kevin Love being an overrated player?

Dude's averaging 21 points and 15.4 rebounds per game. On great percentages.

So his teams not winning.. so what? Those are 100% All-Star numbers.


did you sensor me because I called lilbeastnanin lilbiatch
bluerap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:19 PM   #37
bluerap
Local High School Star
 
bluerap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,031
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
I haven't been involved in this thread since the first page, so i'm curious what exactly your argument is. That Kevin Love does NOT deserve an all-star spot?

actually the thread went in that direction when lilbeastnani (out of nowhere) started trashing Kevin Love, for working too hard and not having the finesse of one andrea bargnani.

I think he was saying that the commissioner should have selected bargs to the west team instead.

Than FC came in and started backing him up.

That is how ridiculous these 2 are.
bluerap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:22 PM   #38
FCardelle
High School JV MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 678
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMason
I hate to be too much of a stats nerd on this, but the problem with the RealGM poll is not that RealGM visitors might be biased towards Kevin Love, but the fact that in in order for it poll to mean anything, the population of people who responded has to it has be a fair representation of all NBA fans. Among other things, the fact that you have to be someone who'd bother to become a member of RealGM and then be the type of person who bothers to answer online surveys (many people including myself not being that type of person) means that the people who answered that survey are hardly your typical NBA fan who casually watches the league.
I guess that the casual NBA fan don't know enough about players to say who is overrated or who should be all-star reserve. I'd prefer a fair representation of hardcore NBA fans. That's why I prefer the RealGM poll over the NBA.com poll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMason
Furthermore there is no statistical reason ever why a survey that samples more people should be preferred over one that doesn't.
Of course there is, and it is called sampling error.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_error

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMason
I think it's pretty clear that Love is not overrated by the average NBA fan, especially when you consider that with his stats basically anything short of calling him MVP can't really constitute overrating him.
FCardelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:22 PM   #39
Chamberlain
Riggin' for Wiggins!
 
Chamberlain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cape Breton Island
Posts: 4,242
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerap
did you sensor me because I called lilbeastnanin lilbiatch

Sure did

Gotta keep it relatively clean, especially considering the topic at hand.
Chamberlain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:26 PM   #40
FCardelle
High School JV MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 678
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
I haven't been involved in this thread since the first page, so i'm curious what exactly your argument is. That Kevin Love does NOT deserve an all-star spot?
Head coaches didn't select Kevin Love as reserve. Most NBA fans think that he should be an all-star. This is an argument in favour of Kevin Love being overrated by the fans.
FCardelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:26 PM   #41
DJMason
High School JV MVP
 
DJMason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 694
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
I haven't been involved in this thread since the first page, so i'm curious what exactly your argument is. That Kevin Love does NOT deserve an all-star spot?

As far as I can tell basically FC thinks the one poll he found that says 48% of RealGM responders think Kevin Love got snubbed but then the coaches didn't pick him means that NBA fans in general overrate him.

I have argued that the fact that he was "snubbed" in the first place means he can't possibly be overrated by the average NBA fan.

Then it became a states class. As far as my part in this mess, blame it on a long boring work day.
DJMason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:31 PM   #42
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,282
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
Head coaches didn't select Kevin Love as reserve. Most NBA fans think that he should be an all-star. This is an argument in favour of Kevin Love being overrated by the fans.
If Kevin Love was overrated by the fans, why would he with the historic numbers he's putting up have been third to last in voting among forwards? Kenny Smith brought up a great point when the reserves were selected for the west all-star team. Kevin Love is putting up better numbers than Blake Griffin and they are both on losing teams, yet the coaches didn't pick him. They gave Tim Duncan a lifetime achievement award, and they picked Blake Griffin because he scores his 20+ in a more demonstrative way. So coaches can be biased too.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:31 PM   #43
DJMason
High School JV MVP
 
DJMason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 694
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
I guess that the casual NBA fan don't know enough about players to say who is overrated or who should be all-star reserve. I'd prefer a fair representation of hardcore NBA fans. That's why I prefer the RealGM poll over the NBA.com poll.


Of course there is, and it is called sampling error.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_error



a) So hardcore, knowledgeabe NBA fans have a higher opinion of Kevin Love than average ones. And this makes him overrated how?

b) Sampling error is decrease by a larger sample size which is why a survey using a larger sample size is always preferred, which is what I said in the first place. Nice try though.

c) I never said I think Love is an MVP candidate (he isn't), I said that he's clearly an allstar so calling him anything short of MVP isn't overrating him. Get it?
DJMason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:31 PM   #44
Chamberlain
Riggin' for Wiggins!
 
Chamberlain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cape Breton Island
Posts: 4,242
Default Re: Kevin Love

Theres three ways to look at it:

1. Kevin Love is overrated by fans because they think he got snubbed and the coaches didn't feel he deserved to be an All-Star over some other players.

2. Kevin Love is underrated by coaches, because they always seem to only vote players from winning teams in, and most fans (48% of the entire world apparently) see him as an All-Star.

3. Kevin Love is averaging 21 points and 15.4 rebounds per game, which is an amazing stat that hasn't been achieved since Moses Malone. Who cares if he's an All-Star or not, he's having an amazing year.

I'm on #3, by the way.
Chamberlain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 11:38 PM   #45
FCardelle
High School JV MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 678
Default Re: Kevin Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMason
a) So hardcore, knowledgeabe NBA fans have a higher opinion of Kevin Love than average ones. And this makes him overrated how?
Because I am comparing hardcore fans with head coaches, get it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMason
b) Sampling error is decrease by a larger sample size which is why a survey using a larger sample size is always preferred, which is what I said in the first place. Nice try though.
I didn't get it right the first time. But this is also false. You prefer a larger sample for the same survey. But, of course, you prefer a good survey with an adequate sample than a bad survey with a huge sample.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMason
c) I never said I think Love is an MVP candidate (he isn't), I said that he's clearly an allstar so calling him anything short of MVP isn't overrating him. Get it?
All-NBA first team???
FCardelle is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:23 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy