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Old 02-22-2011, 05:35 PM   #31
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Originally Posted by bokes15
Ok, so if the #1 choice was obviously Miami as NY was for Melo, why didn't BC attempt to get Beasley, Wright, Haslem, Chalmers, etc... in addition to draft picks and cash? You're either not seeing the point, or just choosing to ignore it.

Beasley, Wright, Haslem and Chalmers. How many of them would it have taken to match salaries and would Miami have traded them all for Bosh? No they wouln'd not have, they needed some bodies. And why would they trade all that away for a half season that still would not have gotten them anything? They got Bosh and LeBron without shedding the other warm bodies they need to field a team.

And easy with the cheap shot, your the first to complain when I make them.

Last edited by b4ball : 02-22-2011 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 02-22-2011, 05:49 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Miami had Arroyo and Joel Anthony as starters to start the season. They gave everything they had to make cap space to sign James and Bosh.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:21 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

As far as the package Denver received, I think it was very good considering the circumstances Denver was in (one team to trade to, pending FA, etc). Are any of the players slam dunks? No but if the Gallinari for a 1st rumors are true, that's a pretty good haul.

At first, the deal didn't make much sense to me from NY's view considering that Melo was pretty much a lock to sign next summer (I think their upside this season is 2nd round at best). However, they gain more cap space by obtaining Billups (cancels out Curry's expirer) and all the other players expire as well. Is it enough to pursue that big fish FA? Not sure but it would be much more difficult to make a move next summer signing Melo with Chandler, Gallo, Mosgov and Felton on the books. As well, Brewer is an expirer as well (shipped off Randolph's longer deal).

I think the Knicks will be players in the FA market next summer. I've always maintained that contenders are very rarely made primarily through free agency so these last 2 summers have been very interesting (also going to be a huge issue in the new CBA).
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:25 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Originally Posted by RapsFan
Who knows! When you look at their salaries, it sure looks like they have room for anoter big contract but again, who knows.

I think the other thing to take into consideration is that the CBA is up this year, and who know knows what the cap situation will hold once that is done.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:29 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Originally Posted by b4ball
Beasley, Wright, Haslem and Chalmers. How many of them would it have taken to match salaries and would Miami have traded them all for Bosh? No they wouln'd not have, they needed some bodies. And why would they trade all that away for a half season that still would not have gotten them anything? They got Bosh and LeBron without shedding the other warm bodies they need to field a team.

And easy with the cheap shot, your the first to complain when I make them.
Why do you think NY sent so many players to Denver for Melo? Because there was no one or two players that was gonna match up with Melo's deal. Poor excuse. And you don't know what Miami would or would not have done. At the trade deadline they stood a legit chance of losing Wade no matter what you choose to believe. That's why they were making a big push for Boozer at the time to appease Wade to keep him around because they knew without him they had absolutely nothing. So you better believe that if BC had said Bosh is available right now and i'm actively looking to trade him, Miami would've made an offer.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:40 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Originally Posted by FCardelle
Miami had Arroyo and Joel Anthony as starters to start the season. They gave everything they had to make cap space to sign James and Bosh.

What is your point?

Giving away 'everything' still allowed them to re-sign Haslem and also sign Mike Miller.

Last edited by RapsFan : 02-22-2011 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:42 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Originally Posted by bokes15
Because you (and a lot of other people) are acting as if they already have Chris Paul or whatever stud you had in mind.

So are you saying the Melo deal, which also creates cap space, is a bad thing because it's not a guarantee they will get another good player? What makes a good deal then in your mind?

Even if they don't get another player (lets consider what is likely), they still have more talent today then they did. Certainly not enough to win a title but I can't imagine many Knick fans are too unhappy with the progress of the current regim.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:57 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
So are you saying the Melo deal, which also creates cap space, is a bad thing because it's not a guarantee they will get another good player? What makes a good deal then in your mind?

Even if they don't get another player (lets consider what is likely), they still have more talent today then they did. Certainly not enough to win a title but I can't imagine many Knick fans are too unhappy with the progress of the current regim.

Alright, here's ESPN's Chad Ford on the Cap Space situation. They probably won't have enough space to get Paul of Williams, or any other significant piece via FA.

Quote:
The common theory has the Knicks making a play for Chris Paul, Deron Williams or even Dwight Howard in the summer of 2012. It's a nice dream. And if you believe the rumors, it sounds like Paul and Williams would both like to join Melo and Stoudemire in Gotham.

But there's one problem: Under every scenario I could come up with, the Knicks are unlikely to have the money to make a competitive offer to a major free agent next summer or possess the assets to trade for him beforehand.

First, we have to assume that, until we hear otherwise, Anthony will sign a max extension with New York. (If Knicks general manger Donnie Walsh can talk him into taking considerably less, then this picture begins to change.)

The Knicks are expected to have four players -- Anthony (at a little more than $20 million), Stoudemire (at a little less than $20 million), Balkman ($1.7 million) and Toney Douglas ($2 million) -- under contract in the 2012 offseason, adding up to about $44 million in payroll. And that does not include Landry Fields, who will be a restricted free agent that summer, or the Knicks' 2011 first-round draft pick. If the Knicks keep and commit to both, the payroll will be several million higher. If not, the Knicks will also have to account for another eight minimum cap holds (assuming that the new salary cap rules require cap holds, which is likely) to reach the required 12-man roster. That would raise their projected cap another $2.5 million, putting them around $46.5 million.

Assuming the salary cap in 2012 is the same that it is this season ($58 million), the Knicks would be looking at $11.5 million in cap space in 2012. However, no one thinks the cap will stay the same. With the owners asking for major concessions from the players in the new collective bargaining session, the cap will most likely be considerably lower.

Even if the NBA lowers the maximum salary that players like Paul, Williams or Howard can make in 2012 or if it rolls back salaries on existing contracts, it's highly unlikely the Knicks will have the cap space to pay them anything close to the max. Virtually any lowering of salaries is likely to be proportional to the drop in the cap. So, at best, the Knicks will have $11.5 million in cap space. At worst, it could be considerably less.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:59 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
So are you saying the Melo deal, which also creates cap space, is a bad thing because it's not a guarantee they will get another good player? What makes a good deal then in your mind?

Even if they don't get another player (lets consider what is likely), they still have more talent today then they did. Certainly not enough to win a title but I can't imagine many Knick fans are too unhappy with the progress of the current regim.
My problem is with trades that gut a teams depth for the sake of matching up with other teams. You mention the Boston situation but it was VERY different than Miami and NY's situation. Boston got Ray Allen for a draft pick, and they pretty much got KG for Al Jefferson + throw ins (guys who weren't even starter material).

And one other thing, i'm not really sure of all the cap space you're referring to? Even without the deal they had 15M coming off the books. They don't even have enough to offer a max deal unless CP3 takes on less.
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:27 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Yes I read that also....that $11.5 mill is the number. Certainly not enough for an straight sign, but I guess they'd be in the discussion for a S&T giving up guys like Field, their pick etc. Again, they get a guy they wanted and have $11.5 mill in space (this is all the cap space I am referring to)....I'd say it's not a bad deal.

People were going off about the Boston deal about how they celts had no depth etc etc, egos blah blah. Mostly it was fans trying to convince themselves Boston would be bad.

We'll see how NY shakes out. It's hard to find a scorer like Melo and they were able to secure him, still keep Fields, have cap space, their pick etc. Can't find too much fault at least in my opinion.
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:44 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

More on the NY deal http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...medium=twitter
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:30 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Boston didn't give up one startworthy player to get Ray and KG. And they did have problems with their depth that got addressed by management.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:35 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Originally Posted by bokes15
Boston didn't give up one startworthy player to get Ray and KG. And they did have problems with their depth that got addressed by management.

Only way to address it. The 'problem' was during the offseason and when they actually started to play basketball, it wasn't one any longer.

I am not sure how you can say they didn't give up one startworthy player when they gave up Big Al obviously.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Only way to address it. The 'problem' was during the offseason and when they actually started to play basketball, it wasn't one any longer.

I am not sure how you can say they didn't give up one startworthy player when they gave up Big Al obviously.
I meant outside of Big Al... but sorry for not explicitly stating that. And yes, the depth was a problem. The problem didn't solve itself. The midseason roster wasn't the same as the roster at the beginning of the season.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:44 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Originally Posted by bokes15
I meant outside of Big Al... but sorry for not explicitly stating that. And yes, the depth was a problem. The problem didn't solve itself. The midseason roster wasn't the same as the roster at the beginning of the season.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. The depth sorted itself out by management simply doing their job the remainder of the preseason. They just added even more midseason with PJ Brown etc. I guess my point is that most teams would like to have a few legit studs and have the 'problem' of filling out the roster like Boston did.
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