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Old 08-12-2012, 08:46 PM   #451
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Default Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread

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Originally Posted by Alan Shore
i have my own definitions of leadership and i was asking you to define yours to see if you know what you are talking about.

i numbered your points so i could respond. (1) is patently false. (2) is false or if true inherently contradictory, therefore also false. (3) is true but does not correlate to leadership but merely the need for scoring. (4) is false and here's why: "accepting blame" is not the same thing as "taking responsibility." his accepting blame is merely resignation that he will be the focal point if there is failure, and rightfully so as the most expensive player on the roster. but lets be clear-- there is no real ownership there. it has nothing to do with improving things or dedicating himself to improve his play where it needs improvement. not once have we heard him say "i have got to do better" or any variation on that. you can add stoudemire here on this very point. (5) is as false as it is vague. what are you referring to here?

bill russell won 11 titles in 13 years and 2 ncaa titles. when asked about what it means to be a good leader his answer was on point: "to be a good leader you must be a good servant."

that is something melo doesn't actually understand. but make no mistake: the talent is there but not the will, the will to serve others. his career is characterized by underachievement and a lot of excuses. "his rosters were weak." "too many injuries." "he faced the eventual nba champion."

but underneath all the underachieving and excuses has been the cold, hard fact that others have had to serve him-- which was something that wilt chamberlain realized was the difference between him and bill russell.

this is the crux of the problem.

maybe the olympics will have a miraculous effect on melo and knick fans will get their money's worth from melo. until then the clock is ticking and there will continue to be hard feelings on either side of the melo debate.

All I know is, the guy most credit for being the "leader" is Tyson Chandler. Everyone says he is such a great leader and changed the culture and Melo is the exact opposite. Meanwhile, Melo played the entire year with a pulled groin, had knee surgery in the offseason, had pulled ligaments in his wrist, rehabbed after every practice, was the reason Linsanity had a chance to take place, carried us with an extraordinary April, battled neck and neck with the best player in the league all while not being 100% healthy and not having a consistenly competent PG all year. Meanwhile, said leader was non-existent in the playoffs because he had the flu. Look at the Olympics. One guy had big game after big game. One guy stayed in foul trouble and got an untimely tech in a gold medal game. It's about time we all start asking ourselves how much of the criticism we give out is warranted and how much is because the media told us so.
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:09 PM   #452
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Default Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread

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All I know is, the guy most credit for being the "leader" is Tyson Chandler. Everyone says he is such a great leader and changed the culture and Melo is the exact opposite. Meanwhile, Melo played the entire year with a pulled groin, had knee surgery in the offseason, had pulled ligaments in his wrist, rehabbed after every practice, was the reason Linsanity had a chance to take place, carried us with an extraordinary April, battled neck and neck with the best player in the league all while not being 100% healthy and not having a consistenly competent PG all year. Meanwhile, said leader was non-existent in the playoffs because he had the flu. Look at the Olympics. One guy had big game after big game. One guy stayed in foul trouble and got an untimely tech in a gold medal game. It's about time we all start asking ourselves how much of the criticism we give out is warranted and how much is because the media told us so.
Ooh, ooh, let me go first!
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:20 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by franchize
All I know is, the guy most credit for being the "leader" is Tyson Chandler. Everyone says he is such a great leader and changed the culture and Melo is the exact opposite. Meanwhile, Melo played the entire year with a pulled groin, had knee surgery in the offseason, had pulled ligaments in his wrist, rehabbed after every practice, was the reason Linsanity had a chance to take place, carried us with an extraordinary April, battled neck and neck with the best player in the league all while not being 100% healthy and not having a consistenly competent PG all year. Meanwhile, said leader was non-existent in the playoffs because he had the flu. Look at the Olympics. One guy had big game after big game. One guy stayed in foul trouble and got an untimely tech in a gold medal game. It's about time we all start asking ourselves how much of the criticism we give out is warranted and how much is because the media told us so.

you make some valid and points. fact is tyson has a temper that can get him in trouble. he played sick in, what was it, two games? being sick is playing as though you have an injury, not the same as "playing hurt." only guy i know who was effective was jordan's "double nickel" game but that is jordan for you. the man was a force of nature.

as far as tempers and techs garnett is the same way as ty. you hate garnett because he's a celtic but if he wore the orange and blue all of a sudden he's praised for having that competitive spirit. both guys give their all on the uphill end of the court so they will earn respect no matter what. but playing hard on the uphill end of the court earns you leadership props and besides tyson has the ring to back it up. so does the big ticket. they both did it with defense. and guess what so did lebron and duncan and jordan and lets add my man mr. frazier.

yes melo played hurt, but as the saying goes "if you can play hurt then play and there are no excuses." that said i don't think anybody should play with a groin pull. too risky and they are slow to recover just like hamstrings. the wrist thing is tough because melo's jumper is so smooth and the form perfect that any little injury is tough on accuracy. when healthy his jumper is real real pretty. that said if he is going to play he has to find a way to impact the game in other ways.

chandler is the heart and soul of the knicks but that doesn't mean that melo is the "exact opposite." it just means that melo has to do sincere work on the uphill end of the court every night in order to create synergy and garner the sincere respect of his teammates. he is a good scorer, maybe the best, but he doesn't make others better on offense. that doesn't help his resume-- playing all out on defense will help his resume.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:48 AM   #454
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Default Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread

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Originally Posted by Alan Shore
you make some valid and points. fact is tyson has a temper that can get him in trouble. he played sick in, what was it, two games? being sick is playing as though you have an injury, not the same as "playing hurt." only guy i know who was effective was jordan's "double nickel" game but that is jordan for you. the man was a force of nature.

as far as tempers and techs garnett is the same way as ty. you hate garnett because he's a celtic but if he wore the orange and blue all of a sudden he's praised for having that competitive spirit. both guys give their all on the uphill end of the court so they will earn respect no matter what. but playing hard on the uphill end of the court earns you leadership props and besides tyson has the ring to back it up. so does the big ticket. they both did it with defense. and guess what so did lebron and duncan and jordan and lets add my man mr. frazier.

yes melo played hurt, but as the saying goes "if you can play hurt then play and there are no excuses." that said i don't think anybody should play with a groin pull. too risky and they are slow to recover just like hamstrings. the wrist thing is tough because melo's jumper is so smooth and the form perfect that any little injury is tough on accuracy. when healthy his jumper is real real pretty. that said if he is going to play he has to find a way to impact the game in other ways.

chandler is the heart and soul of the knicks but that doesn't mean that melo is the "exact opposite." it just means that melo has to do sincere work on the uphill end of the court every night in order to create synergy and garner the sincere respect of his teammates. he is a good scorer, maybe the best, but he doesn't make others better on offense. that doesn't help his resume-- playing all out on defense will help his resume.

1. I love KG's game. I've been watching him since he was in HS. I still have the All American game with him, Pierce, Marbury, Carter, Billups etc on VHS.

2. I didn't make excuses. He didn't have a good year in it's entirety. I've said that on numerous occassions. That said, playing with a groin pull shows heart and leadership. Tyson played like crap in the playoffs because he had the flu. Lin was cleared to play and chose not to so he could prevent further injury (and rightfully so). Whether Melo should have played or not, only he really knows. Fact remains though...he did. And he was our best player.

3. I think most of Melo's criticism is based on what happened during the D'Antoni era. Nobody not named Shawn Marion plays D under Mike D'Antoni. I don't get why Melo gets singled out. I can count on one hand how many games he let his man torch him. LeBron also scored the least amount of points in any playoff series this year with Melo guarding him. Melo also played really good defense in the Olympics...better than Chandler. In fact, Coach K often subsituted Chandler for Melo and the team got better.

4. Correction, he didn't make OUR players better on offense and that's because most of them CAN'T get better on offense. People blame Melo even for Landry Fields decline. Melo didn't make him shoot 25% from 3. He didn't make Landry shoot 56% from the FT line. There's no helping Toney Douglas. There's no Helping Jared Jeffries. There's no helping Mike Bibby. Novak is Novak regardless. Shumpert actually did get better over the course of the year and played pretty well with Melo IMO.

5. I agree. But this goes for every other player on our team as well...especially Amare.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:44 AM   #455
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:41 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by franchize
1. I love KG's game. I've been watching him since he was in HS. I still have the All American game with him, Pierce, Marbury, Carter, Billups etc on VHS.

2. I didn't make excuses. He didn't have a good year in it's entirety. I've said that on numerous occassions. That said, playing with a groin pull shows heart and leadership. Tyson played like crap in the playoffs because he had the flu. Lin was cleared to play and chose not to so he could prevent further injury (and rightfully so). Whether Melo should have played or not, only he really knows. Fact remains though...he did. And he was our best player.

3. I think most of Melo's criticism is based on what happened during the D'Antoni era. Nobody not named Shawn Marion plays D under Mike D'Antoni. I don't get why Melo gets singled out. I can count on one hand how many games he let his man torch him. LeBron also scored the least amount of points in any playoff series this year with Melo guarding him. Melo also played really good defense in the Olympics...better than Chandler. In fact, Coach K often subsituted Chandler for Melo and the team got better.

4. Correction, he didn't make OUR players better on offense and that's because most of them CAN'T get better on offense. People blame Melo even for Landry Fields decline. Melo didn't make him shoot 25% from 3. He didn't make Landry shoot 56% from the FT line. There's no helping Toney Douglas. There's no Helping Jared Jeffries. There's no helping Mike Bibby. Novak is Novak regardless. Shumpert actually did get better over the course of the year and played pretty well with Melo IMO.

5. I agree. But this goes for every other player on our team as well...especially Amare.


I use "you" in a general sense, not you specifically. I love Garnett's game. I'm a Knick fan but I love Pierce's game too. I wish Melo could graft some of Pierce's game onto his own.

Trouble with playing hurt is nobody knows for sure how limited a player is. I respect that he wanted to get back in there. But then you have to figure out if you can contribute positively. Lin got raked over the coals for the 85% comment. He misspoke. He meant he was 15% away from the bare minimum of being able to compete. That wasn't gonna happen in one week since the last 15% of healing slows down relative to the previous 85%. In other words if he were able to come back at all he wouldn't be 85% he would be closer to 65% which is not going to get it done in the playoffs and besides you risk re-injury.

Your 3rd point I don't agree with and never have. i am a firm believer that your best player, your most expensive player, is supposed to be the best at making others better-- not merely the best at scoring. He needs to be be a positive-sum player, meaning he gives more than he gives up. This means facilitating or at least creating rhythmic flow on offense. And if you can't do that then you must take up the slack on the uphill end of the court.

To my mind, if you say it isn't Melo's fault that other players fell short then you don't believe that synergy is a real thing in a team sport. It also means that you think the reason why Bryant failed so badly in certain seasons is because his teammates were not good enough. There is no excuse for a player who is capable of true leadership to not try to create cohesion during the regular season any way he can. If that means sacrificing his own scoring and raising his assists so that lesser players can gain confidence and focus then that is what he should be doing.

They tried the point-forward thing with Melo and it failed. I honestly thought a basic two-man game between him and stat was the way to go but you rarely saw and sort of pick and roll game with those two. The conclusion is that Melo doesn't have that level of playmaking in him. The effort that he should have made instead and to make up for his inability to make others better is his defensive effort. Doesn't matter who the coach is. If you can't facilitate on offense then you have got to get it done on defense. This simple equation has eluded melo and to some fans is a sign of a certain lack of leadership if not a lack of character. As a ballplayer you hate playing with a dude who puts up shot after shot and yet doesn't give 100% on the defensive end. And you hate it even more when the shots themselves are poor decisions. It destroys chemistry, synergy, esprit de corps.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:56 PM   #457
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I use "you" in a general sense, not you specifically. I love Garnett's game. I'm a Knick fan but I love Pierce's game too. I wish Melo could graft some of Pierce's game onto his own.

Trouble with playing hurt is nobody knows for sure how limited a player is. I respect that he wanted to get back in there. But then you have to figure out if you can contribute positively. Lin got raked over the coals for the 85% comment. He misspoke. He meant he was 15% away from the bare minimum of being able to compete. That wasn't gonna happen in one week since the last 15% of healing slows down relative to the previous 85%. In other words if he were able to come back at all he wouldn't be 85% he would be closer to 65% which is not going to get it done in the playoffs and besides you risk re-injury.

Your 3rd point I don't agree with and never have. i am a firm believer that your best player, your most expensive player, is supposed to be the best at making others better-- not merely the best at scoring. He needs to be be a positive-sum player, meaning he gives more than he gives up. This means facilitating or at least creating rhythmic flow on offense. And if you can't do that then you must take up the slack on the uphill end of the court.

To my mind, if you say it isn't Melo's fault that other players fell short then you don't believe that synergy is a real thing in a team sport. It also means that you think the reason why Bryant failed so badly in certain seasons is because his teammates were not good enough. There is no excuse for a player who is capable of true leadership to not try to create cohesion during the regular season any way he can. If that means sacrificing his own scoring and raising his assists so that lesser players can gain confidence and focus then that is what he should be doing.

They tried the point-forward thing with Melo and it failed. I honestly thought a basic two-man game between him and stat was the way to go but you rarely saw and sort of pick and roll game with those two. The conclusion is that Melo doesn't have that level of playmaking in him. The effort that he should have made instead and to make up for his inability to make others better is his defensive effort. Doesn't matter who the coach is. If you can't facilitate on offense then you have got to get it done on defense. This simple equation has eluded melo and to some fans is a sign of a certain lack of leadership if not a lack of character. As a ballplayer you hate playing with a dude who puts up shot after shot and yet doesn't give 100% on the defensive end. And you hate it even more when the shots themselves are poor decisions. It destroys chemistry, synergy, esprit de corps.

Funny part about Pierce is, all the things people said about Melo, people said about him until Garnett came. They said he was fat. Thy said he didn't play D. They said he shot too much. He's actually in worse shape and shot way mroe than Melo. When you win rings, all that goes away.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:03 PM   #458
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5 Melos
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:04 AM   #459
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Why they had to be eating chips?

Typical Melo


/jk
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:42 AM   #460
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I have a pair of those M8's. They're not very good basketball sneakers. With every major sneaker company going with ultra light sneakers, including D Rose's Adidas which as probably the lightest basketball sneakers I've ever seen, I'm curious as to why Jordan would make kicks so heavy. For a guy who isn't as explosive as say a LeBron or Durant, these kicks certainly don't help. I work out in them from time to time when I shoot around and they suck lol. Here's the supposed M9 rumored protype design:



I actually like these better than the M8. I think Melo's 5.5 was his best shoe.

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Old 08-20-2012, 11:56 AM   #461
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Adidas goes with lighter sneakers, and all their guys get hurt. Rose, Shumpert, Howard, etc.
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:15 PM   #462
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Adidas goes with lighter sneakers, and all their guys get hurt. Rose, Shumpert, Howard, etc.

They weren't the 1st brand though. The irst brand was probably And 1 beleive it or not. Ask most basketball heads. When I used to play in tournaments and stuff, EVERYONE rocked Adidas. They have some really good shoes. I think those D rose shoes might just be too light though. I mean seriously. I socks heavier than those lol
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Old 08-26-2012, 02:53 PM   #463
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Ian Begley ‏@IanBegley
Carmelo on the Atlantic: "Brooklyn got better. Philly got better w/Bynum. Boston is Boston.... (but) we'’re worrying about ourselves." #NYK

Ian Begley ‏@IanBegley
Melo's excited to play w/Felton, whom he's played w/since he was 9. He says Ray plays w/the same chip on his shoulder that he had back then.

Ian Begley ‏@IanBegley
Carmelo on playing more PF. 'I’m a wingman & everyone knows that. But it’s an extra incentive (to play the 4)... It gives us more weapons.”

Nate Taylor ‏@ByNateTaylor
Carmelo Anthony is at St. Johns today to promote the NBA Baller Beats video game. He discussed many topics.

Nate Taylor ‏@ByNateTaylor
Carmelo on 1st full training camp as a Knick: "Of course it makes a difference. Anybody who says it doesn’t is lying."

Nate Taylor ‏@ByNateTaylor
Carmelo on Raymond Felton: “This is a special year for him mentally. He wants to prove everybody wrong.”

Nate Taylor ‏@ByNateTaylor
Carmelo says everywhere he goes people ask to see his Olympic gold medal. Says it's getting framed.

Nate Taylor ‏@ByNateTaylor
Carmelo on teammates: "I see Amare's in the gym working. Iman is getting his knee right. Tyson was out there with me."

Nate Taylor ‏@ByNateTaylor
Last tidbit from Carmelo's event. A guy asked this question: Does Jeremy Lin have anything to be scared of?

Nate Taylor ‏@ByNateTaylor
Carmelo's response: "No, not at all. I don't play against him. I don't guard him so he doesn't have anything to be scared of."

Ian Begley ‏@IanBegley
FWIW, Carmelo Anthony said today that he's 100% healthy and has no issue w/his hamstring. He's planning to start training again on Monday.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:17 PM   #464
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melo 5.5
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:42 AM   #465
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melo 5.5
Yea man...I loved those kicks. I htink my lil bro had a pair.
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