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Old 03-26-2011, 10:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

i guess my point is this- if lopez plays like a beast for long stretches then plays like a wimp for other long stretches, then the situation needs to be examined. that is, it doesn't take a sherlock holmes to figure out that something fundamental has changed.

yes, lopez has his flaws, but he's also a cornerstone of a championship team, IMO.
and yes, howard is better... but we're not assured of getting howard, by any means.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

of course we keep lopez if we cannot get dwight, but as of right now, lopez is nowhere near untouchable.

a cornerstone in my books is a leader and a player who wills his team to win. lopez time and time again has shown us that he has neither quality. his skills are rare, but his flaws almost negate them. your center is your last line of defense. when your center has no presence, it's like your defensive foundation has no base. thats not championship basketball. no team in recent history has won with no defensive foundation.

let me also prove that this is not pure emotion on my part by showing you that brook had 0 rebounds last night. let me repeat: ZERO. i defended him throughout the rebounding issues, but it has gone too far. when you don't care about rebounding to that extent when you're our "cornerstone" center, thats a problem. that not only shows lack of toughness, but lack of interest. usually when your 7 foot and you're in the paint, the ball will fall into your hands. he's not even trying.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:20 AM   #18
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

if i may use another team as an example: look at boston. i honestly think they killed their chances of winning it all by trading perkins for krstic.

now im not dogging the trade, bc maybe ainge is thinking about the future, and jeff green brings in youth. and boston is still a great team.

but remember game 7 of last year? perkins got injured and they sorely missed him. why? bc of rebounding and defense: two key things that championship teams with legit centers have.

yes krstic can shoot, i like him. but the c's just lost half of their toughness inside which was invaluable to their success. like my former coach said, 80% of winning is confidence, if opposing teams are confident in driving in the lane for easy layups with no resitance theyll do it. but have an enforcer inside, then theyll think twice about it and usually miss shots they normally make.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:27 AM   #19
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

thats why opposing centers frequently have great games offensively against lopez. they're confident that they can score on him anytime they want to.

thats why even when lopez put a hand up and did everything right mechanically, horford still scored with ease. its confidence.
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Old 03-27-2011, 02:23 AM   #20
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

what i was trying to say gently is that lopez has shown long stretches of being a solid positional defender in addition to everything else he does. therefore if that suddenly changed, then you look at what other thing suddenly changed, i.e. the coaching.

i.e., we already know that he and robin work hard each summer on their skill sets, so unless brook's playing injured, then something has changed outside of himself. hence, the sherlock holmes reference.

as for rebounding, it's obvious that the staff has given lopez instructions to release early when he sees a teammate with a clear path to the rebound. hence, the lower boards statistic. it's also obvious that they did this to offset his lumbering footspeed, trying to get the post offense set up a little earlier in the shot clock.

regardless, lopez seems to work great with d-will, and i still think we're all set at the 1 and the 5 slots.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

avery said earlier in the season that he dreams about his center getting 10 rebounds. those were his exact quotes regarding lopez. i highly doubt he's asking lopez to not box out and breakout early. in fact dwill also encouraged him to crash the boards more. that's why as soon as the trade happen, you could see lopez getting more rebounds and making the effort to do so. but apparently, it didn't last long. he's right back to square one, old habits and tendencies.

letting your teammates secure the rebound when no players on the opposing team are nearby is one thing. not boxing out properly, not getting proper position, and letting your man score easy layups after the O board is another.

even if he was instructed to get early post position, lopez shied away from the post all game long and settled for jumpshots again. that's why he scored only 9 points.

i'm sorry but there just isn't an excuse for 0 rebounds from the center when he plays 30+ minutes, there just isn't. lopez could score 50 points, i don't care. that isn't winning basketball no matter how you twist it.

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Old 03-27-2011, 02:03 PM   #22
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

Quote:
Originally Posted by It's A VC3!!!
I don't prefer it, but I have seen how a dwight howard offense looks like. I watched the entire boston vs magic series, where even the commentators stated that the magic are doing the celtics a favor by giving dwight the ball rather then, vince or jameer, or whom ever. don't get me wrong having dwight howard doesn't make us a bad team. i just don't prefer giving up lopez who is several years younger, and nearly identical, stats wise. but if we can get them both on the nets that would be amazing. i can see a co-existence between them two.

I have the opposite feeling when I watch the Magic. I think Jameer is jacking up too many shots and not feeding Dwight enough. Dwight gets good shots not only for himself, but everyone around him. He's a fairly decent passer, and not as in finding open guys, but getting the ball reversed around so that shooters get their shots.

I don't think Brook and Dwight are good co-existing tandem unless you plan to turn Brook into purely a jump shooter which would be detrimental. The two of them are too big to co-exist in the paint and Brook isn't scrappy enough to get lose balls for put backs. I'm fine with Hump being our PF if we had Dwight. He's still willing to do the dirty work and if he develops a nice little jumper with consistency, he'd be fine.

I also don't like picking Brook just because he's 2-3 years younger. Dwight was a dominant force by his 3rd year in the league and the Magic were building around him. And he came out of high school. Brook is in his third year after being a sophomore in college and he hasn't look as good as Dwight. I don't know what you mean by identical stat wise because outside of FT%, Brook isn't better than Dwight at any statistic.

Also have to consider that Deron wants to win now, not win later. He doesn't want to be in his near 30s waiting for Brook to become better.

But all of this is moot. I don't see Dwight leaving ORL at all. He seems to be happy there and overall seems like a loyal guy.

If I have a wish for Brook next year (outside of rebounding), it's to learn some more post moves. He's going to his left shoulder too much and its becoming obvious that he wants to go that way. He needs to learn how to pivot both ways and to better hone that left hand jump hook.
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Old 03-27-2011, 03:44 PM   #23
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

Quote:
Originally Posted by wang4three
I have the opposite feeling when I watch the Magic. I think Jameer is jacking up too many shots and not feeding Dwight enough. Dwight gets good shots not only for himself, but everyone around him. He's a fairly decent passer, and not as in finding open guys, but getting the ball reversed around so that shooters get their shots.

I don't think Brook and Dwight are good co-existing tandem unless you plan to turn Brook into purely a jump shooter which would be detrimental. The two of them are too big to co-exist in the paint and Brook isn't scrappy enough to get lose balls for put backs. I'm fine with Hump being our PF if we had Dwight. He's still willing to do the dirty work and if he develops a nice little jumper with consistency, he'd be fine.

I also don't like picking Brook just because he's 2-3 years younger. Dwight was a dominant force by his 3rd year in the league and the Magic were building around him. And he came out of high school. Brook is in his third year after being a sophomore in college and he hasn't look as good as Dwight. I don't know what you mean by identical stat wise because outside of FT%, Brook isn't better than Dwight at any statistic.

Also have to consider that Deron wants to win now, not win later. He doesn't want to be in his near 30s waiting for Brook to become better.

But all of this is moot. I don't see Dwight leaving ORL at all. He seems to be happy there and overall seems like a loyal guy.

If I have a wish for Brook next year (outside of rebounding), it's to learn some more post moves. He's going to his left shoulder too much and its becoming obvious that he wants to go that way. He needs to learn how to pivot both ways and to better hone that left hand jump hook.

Maybe, but I'm not going to fall for his "loyalty" that easily just because he's a friendly and funny guy. He's just as hungry as Deron, LeBron, and every other star to win a championship.

It's pretty clear he's frustrated with playing with guys who chuck threes instead of giving him the ball. I saw it at the Knicks game, He mouthed "Give me the ball!" he was definitely frustrated. I'm know I'm biased when I say this, but I think he's drooling at the thought of playing with Deron, a guy who not only runs the pick and the roll with ease but can find guys with surgical precision.

There are a lot of moments when Dwight is wide open under the basket for a split second, but he never gets the ball because his teammates can't see him. Deron is someone who can see and execute those passes, and Dwight knows it.

And if the Magic don't make it out of the east this time, I could see him seriously weighing his option to leave, not necessarily to the Nets but just somewhere else. Let's face it, they're not a real threat to win it all, they never were. Would Magic fans be upset? Sure. But I think they should look at management first for putting Dwight on an island while surrounding him with mediocre talent and bad contracts like Arenas and Richardson.
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Old 03-27-2011, 03:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

@recspecs,
the passing stats and the public statements mean very little to me, frankly. what i want to know is this-

why was lopez both a productive and promising player under his first two NBA coaches, and now a third-year disappointment under AJ? and why has every player on the roster had a below-average season other than hump? and how did a young player, non-star, and guy who's only earning rookie money, suddenly decide on his own to start roaming more, basically being less efficient in almost all areas, unless his coach has something to do with it?

anyway, it's waaaaaaay to early for me to give up on lopez. and maybe it's naive and simple-minded for me to think about it this way, and maybe this season represents progress that won't be realised and won't be reaped until later down the line, but everything looked pretty good for brook lopez before avery johnson showed up.

btw, i wouldn't argue your in-game observations. you watch a hell of a lot more games than i do, so you probably know better than i do about that stuff.
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Old 03-27-2011, 04:13 PM   #25
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigantes
@recspecs,
the passing stats and the public statements mean very little to me, frankly. what i want to know is this-

why was lopez both a productive and promising player under his first two NBA coaches, and now a third-year disappointment under AJ? and why has every player on the roster had a below-average season other than hump? and how did a young player, non-star, and guy who's only earning rookie money, suddenly decide on his own to start roaming more, basically being less efficient in almost all areas, unless his coach has something to do with it?

anyway, it's waaaaaaay to early for me to give up on lopez. and maybe it's naive and simple-minded for me to think about it this way, and maybe this season represents progress that won't be realised and won't be reaped until later down the line, but everything looked pretty good for brook lopez before avery johnson showed up.

btw, i wouldn't argue your in-game observations. you watch a hell of a lot more games than i do, so you probably know better than i do about that stuff.

I don't really like Avery that much either. He's annoying and players will eventually tune him out. And it's apparent that Brook isn't so fond of him, either. But again, I cannot account for such a drop off in production just because of a coaching change. it may be the coach, but it also could be that Lopez is fed up with this organization. After last year's debacle and some of the moves the Nets are making, he may not see his future in Brooklyn. I don't know, it's all speculation.

Maybe it's the lingering mono, maybe Brook needs a few more years to actually break out of his shell. But he is a sophomore out of college ready made NBA player who's in his third year, so I'm not going to give him that easy of a pass like i did with Favors.

The thing that irks me is that I've seen Lopez do it. I've seen him snare 14 rebounds before against the Laker bigs, but if he doesn't feel like playing 4 out of 5 games, it won't work. And Deron isn't going to wait for him either. He wants everybody on the same page, playing at their best with a "championship or bust" attitude. Maybe this year gets a pass because the Nets are out of the playoff race. But next year is a different story, the Nets need to convince him that this is the place to be, and it won't be accomplished with players playing without their heads in the game. If any of the lingering losing mentality remains next year at all, consider him out the door.

By getting Deron himself, all signs point that management is in win now mode. If Brook has something magical to show us, it's in his best interest to show it now.

Last edited by RecSpecs110 : 03-27-2011 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 03-27-2011, 10:56 PM   #26
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

well, since you don't know either, let me know if you do find out, one day.

i would really like to know!
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Old 03-30-2011, 11:26 PM   #27
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

lopez against the knicks, active in the fist half. but absolutely invisible in the second when the knicks turned up their defensive pressure on him. this is how its been all along. when the going gets tough, lopez folds. never mind his complete lack of defensive awareness as well.

and did you see the crucial play with a minute to go in the 4th when he loses his shoe and tries to put it back on while the ball is still in play and the ball bounces off his back and out of bounds. in that critical juncture, you cannot do that. thats something you do in peewee basketball, not the nba.

im trying my best to give lopez a chance but he isnt giving me anything to defend. he has the willpower and toughness of a 3 year old. and mind you this is regular season. think about the playoffs when guys play much harder and dirtier and scouting reports/adustments will be tighter. lopez will be eaten alive.
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Old 03-31-2011, 12:58 AM   #28
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

A comment from a fan at Netsdaily:

"This Lopez shoe situation

shows me one thing. He doesn’t have “it”.

Deron can make him a better player but he can’t give him the heart that he needs to be at that elite level..

In a close game this guy was actually more worried about his shoes. HIS FREAKING SHOE.

HIS SHOE. While his teammates are hustling for the ball you see your second best player actually tying his shoe.

If you are Deron or Hump you are upset and I mean pissed.

No amount of weight. Training or anything will change that. Everything you wanted to know about Lopez was told in that moment."

A different fan who watched the Knicks game live:

"There’s no teaching spine. There’s no cultivating heart. There’s no coaching focus.

He doesn’t have it, he never had it, and he never will."

"It's not a one game assessment, nor is it hate

It’s years of watching him, every single game, and seeing absolutely no growth in the brain or heart. He doesn’t have it."

Last edited by RecSpecs110 : 03-31-2011 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 04-03-2011, 10:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

Lopez with 3 rebounds in 40 minutes against the Heat without Kris Humphries playing (so no excuses that Humprhries takes away rebounds from him). And again, shot a poor percentage, because he settled for jumpshots.

Not to mention, his double teams are as weak as can be, he doesn't even pressure the guy with the ball, he just stands there with his hand raised like an idiot.

He made Zydrunas Illgauskas and Erick Dampier look like freaking Duncan and Robinson.

I'm obviously not blaming the loss only on him, but Lopez is a proven loser. You will not win a championship with him as your #2 or even #3 best player on your team. The fact that he is called a "cornerstone" is laughable.

We are not set at the center position, and he is becoming more and more expendable in my eyes.

Please let us be able to trade him for Dwight Howard. That way, we can actually have a center with a pair of balls, and Lopez can go to Disney World anytime he wants to.

Lopez is a bum, a class A bum. A clutz, a loser, a wuss, a wimp, a mental midget.

If I were 7 feet tall, I swear I would own EVERY rebound that came into my vicinity. I wouldn't let some punks get the best of me.

Last edited by RecSpecs110 : 04-03-2011 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:13 AM   #30
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Default Re: Lopez vs. Howard

recspecs, i wouldn't dream of trying to change your mind about anything in the world, but just an FYI for you and/or anyone else, re: brook lopez... in case this wasn't known:

last week, news came out of rotoworld / other sources about lopez' arm. specifically, he has been been battling a calcium deposit in his arm all season, and apparently it's been bothering him more, lately. also that he's been reluctant to bring it up this season, for what i would think are obvious reasons.

apparently, whenever his arm gets bumped, it hurts. also, i would imagine that having soft tissue in your arm fill up with loose calcium would not be real helpful towards that arm's overall strength and quickness.

hopefully this gets fixed over the summer.
or maybe one day he'll be known as brook "arms of stone" lopez.
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