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Old 05-14-2011, 03:59 PM   #46
Nastradamus
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

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Originally Posted by dd24
I think there will be a few good PG's in this draft. That's why I wasn't opposed to taking one, like Knight if he drops to us. The more I think about it, the more I think we need help in the back court and not the front court. Sure we were over loaded with guards last year but we just didn't have enough of them that played well. Couple that with how Rip got benched and we really didn't help ourselves. I know Detroit is all about defense but right now we have nobody besides Stuckey who can put the ball in the bucket. If someone like Tyler or Johnson isn't available for our 2nd round pick but a guy like Mack is I would definitely draft him. After all, he did lead a team to the championship game this year and was a big part of getting them there last year. Selby is a SG and only 6'1". I don't know if people are saying he's changing positions now but I don't see him making it in the NBA. He'd really have to learn some new skills. I also think Jimmer isn't getting enough hype. I don't know if he'll be an all-star but the guy can score. The way he created space for himself and used his size as a PG is something that will translate to any level. He's going to be a solid player for someone in this league. I'm not saying we should draft him at #7 but anywhere past about 9 or 10 will be a good deal for some team.

Rip and Gordon can both put the ball in the bucket, lets not get silly here. Mvoing one of them will be an addition by subtraction situation IMO. They hamper each others games.

I just do not want Knight. Don't understand what his role would be on this team or how he helps us. We need to improve our size, post scoring, defense and assist rate/ball movement.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:59 PM   #47
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By the way I just played the lottery at espn.com and the Pistons got the first pick and took Derrick Williams Personally I would have took Kyrie Irving but just the thought that I pressed the button once for poops and laughs and we got the first pick makes me believe it's not completely impossible

I'd love to have either I suppose, but I'd also go Irving. I think he has Isaiah like potential.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:09 PM   #48
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

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Originally Posted by Nastradamus
Rip and Gordon can both put the ball in the bucket, lets not get silly here. Mvoing one of them will be an addition by subtraction situation IMO. They hamper each others games.

I just do not want Knight. Don't understand what his role would be on this team or how he helps us. We need to improve our size, post scoring, defense and assist rate/ball movement.

Rip can but he doesn't create his own shot and like I mentioned before he was benched quite a bit last year..... BG hasn't shown us anything yet. He's been a bust as a Piston. Plus he's just too small to be a starter in this league. We need a solid starting back court. We don't have it right now. You can't tell me you think a back court of Stuckey and Gordon is getting a team to the finals.

Don't get me wrong, I think we need help in the front court too. I just think we need less there and it's easier to address with a trade. Of course who we draft all depends on where we're picking anyhow. After Tuesday we'll have a much better idea of what direction we'll be headed.
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:50 AM   #49
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If we would have held at #7 and with the teams in their order of percentage, I would have thought Kanter, Knight, or Vessely could have fallen. The way the lottery played out today and based on teams needs if they draft with just half a brain cell it doesn't look like that will happen. That #8 pick just doesn't look too good right now. I think the best move would be to risk it and try to package Rip, BG, or Charlie with that pick and try to move up, otherwise I wouldn't be upset if they tried to move down. The one thing that could change things is if Cleveland is really stupid and doesn't draft Irving #1. Cleveland does need a PG. Davis is old. But if they draft Williams for some reason Minnesota really doesn't need a PG because they have Rubio coming. Then people will fall. The other thing I see is Minnesota doesn't necessarily need a SF since they have Beasley and he was pretty solid last season. They really need a C so if they draft Kanter it doesn't mix too much up. Then Utah would just draft Williams and things would fall in order. Cleveland might want to trade that #4 pick but I doubt they will for some reason. I guess at 8 we'll end up with Jonas Valanciunas or Bismack Biyombo. I'm almost more inclined to want to gamble on Valanciunas.
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Old 05-18-2011, 12:39 PM   #50
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Apparently Minnesota is very open to trading the 2nd pick in the draft because they want some veterans. Maybe Rip + #8 for something & #2?
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:38 PM   #51
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Rip can but he doesn't create his own shot and like I mentioned before he was benched quite a bit last year..... BG hasn't shown us anything yet. He's been a bust as a Piston. Plus he's just too small to be a starter in this league. We need a solid starting back court. We don't have it right now. You can't tell me you think a back court of Stuckey and Gordon is getting a team to the finals.

Don't get me wrong, I think we need help in the front court too. I just think we need less there and it's easier to address with a trade. Of course who we draft all depends on where we're picking anyhow. After Tuesday we'll have a much better idea of what direction we'll be headed.

Our team was a disaster last year, but I'm not buying that Rip and Ben can't play any more. Ben has already shown that he can not only start for a playoff team, but be its leading scorer and Rip, when he got to play, produced just fine. I see him having a Ray Allen-esque career finish myself.

I'm not sure Stuckey/Gordon is a pure championship backcourt, but I can see them being 2 of our 3 main Gs. Same for Stuckey/Rip. one of Rip/Ben has to go, ideally for a PG.

No matter what, I do not want a scoring guard in this draft. I'll take a defensive or pass oriented G or an athletic F, either spot.
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:40 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by dd24
If we would have held at #7 and with the teams in their order of percentage, I would have thought Kanter, Knight, or Vessely could have fallen. The way the lottery played out today and based on teams needs if they draft with just half a brain cell it doesn't look like that will happen. That #8 pick just doesn't look too good right now. I think the best move would be to risk it and try to package Rip, BG, or Charlie with that pick and try to move up, otherwise I wouldn't be upset if they tried to move down. The one thing that could change things is if Cleveland is really stupid and doesn't draft Irving #1. Cleveland does need a PG. Davis is old. But if they draft Williams for some reason Minnesota really doesn't need a PG because they have Rubio coming. Then people will fall. The other thing I see is Minnesota doesn't necessarily need a SF since they have Beasley and he was pretty solid last season. They really need a C so if they draft Kanter it doesn't mix too much up. Then Utah would just draft Williams and things would fall in order. Cleveland might want to trade that #4 pick but I doubt they will for some reason. I guess at 8 we'll end up with Jonas Valanciunas or Bismack Biyombo. I'm almost more inclined to want to gamble on Valanciunas.

The only problem with Valanciunas is that he and Monroe don't make for much of a defensive froncourt. Pretty finesse. I love the kid as a player. Package either Monroe or Valanciunas for Marc Gasol and you have something though.

Cleveland isn't passing on Kyrie IMO, though I would consider a Williams plus Knight/Walker combination to some degree. I do think we could get Cleveland's 4th pick if we wanted, ideally for Kanter.
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:41 PM   #53
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Apparently Minnesota is very open to trading the 2nd pick in the draft because they want some veterans. Maybe Rip + #8 for something & #2?

If we took on Webster and maybe Darko for them, they'd probably take Rip's salary on. What else do we include? Next year first unprotected? Do we want Williams/Kanter that bad?
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:45 PM   #54
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Ben has had every opportunity and has shown me nothing. It's time for him to step up or get shipped out. I think Rip does have game left. I've always said that. What I mentioned in that quote there though is he does not create his own shot. That's never been his game. He needs others to help him create and then he gets the ball in the bucket. Right now Detroit needs someone who can create their own shot. The same thing goes for Ben and it's what I mentioned in that quote. I'm not saying the guy is terrible. He's one of the pieces teams inquire the most about, that's already been talked about. It's the fact that he's a shooter and doesn't create his own shot. I love how everybody talks all this defense but we need some guys who can create besides Stuckey. We have a lot of good defenders. Stuckey, Rip, Jerebko, Tay (if he stays), and Wallace.
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:52 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Nastradamus
If we took on Webster and maybe Darko for them, they'd probably take Rip's salary on. What else do we include? Next year first unprotected? Do we want Williams/Kanter that bad?

No other draft picks for sure. Players and this years pick. Next years pick will be too good to give away. It'll be a much deeper draft and even if we pick 10-15 it could potentially bring us a player that will be better than what we get this year. College basketball is stacked next year. The draft classes that some of these teams have coming in next year in addition with what they already have coming back is pretty incredible. Duke is going to lose their two best players in Irving and Smith and they're still going to have more talent on their roster next year... I wouldn't trade a potential 2012 lottery pick unless it was for a player that we knew would be special.

The other thing I see is Darko wouldn't want to come back to Detroit. He really didn't like it here. I wouldn't actually mind having him back. I think he's turned into a fairly decent player and we could use him. I don't think he's quite the bust that everybody makes him out to be. I also don't think he has the work ethic or the killer instinct to ever be a stud in the league, but like I said I think he's still a decent player who just had too many people in front of him at the time here in Detroit.

The benefit to Minnesota with getting Rip is he would be the best player involved in the trade and could help them now. He's also a proven winner and a guy with a good work ethic that could help the younger guys.
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:59 PM   #56
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Ben has had every opportunity and has shown me nothing. It's time for him to step up or get shipped out. I think Rip does have game left. I've always said that. What I mentioned in that quote there though is he does not create his own shot. That's never been his game. He needs others to help him create and then he gets the ball in the bucket. Right now Detroit needs someone who can create their own shot. The same thing goes for Ben and it's what I mentioned in that quote. I'm not saying the guy is terrible. He's one of the pieces teams inquire the most about, that's already been talked about. It's the fact that he's a shooter and doesn't create his own shot. I love how everybody talks all this defense but we need some guys who can create besides Stuckey. We have a lot of good defenders. Stuckey, Rip, Jerebko, Tay (if he stays), and Wallace.

Our deficiencies last year were down low more than anything. We were near last in the league in things like paint scoring, post defense, defensive rebounding, FG%,FTs attemtped etc. We need quality bigs. Monroe was good and will be better, but will never be an elite shot blocker or post defender. He'll be a good help defender and rebounder who uses his size to his advantage, but he'll never be on all NBA defensive teams or anything. Charlie can't guard anyone and can't rebound his position. Maxiell does nothing and Ben seems finished. Jerebko is a boost, but he's an energy type, he's not a starting 4 on a title team.

We could use a true PG and a versatile SF who actually has the size to guard guys like Bron and Melo, we do need wing/scoring help, but down low has to be addressed first. We won first and foremost due to our athletic, defensive oriented bigs in the old days. The Wallace's
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:00 PM   #57
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The only problem with Valanciunas is that he and Monroe don't make for much of a defensive froncourt. Pretty finesse. I love the kid as a player. Package either Monroe or Valanciunas for Marc Gasol and you have something though.

Cleveland isn't passing on Kyrie IMO, though I would consider a Williams plus Knight/Walker combination to some degree. I do think we could get Cleveland's 4th pick if we wanted, ideally for Kanter.

Valanciunas is young and still growing. He could be a nice defensive player down low. The thing is he needs a few years. I don't see him producing much right away. He's a project but I think he'll be decent in the NBA. It will be a miracle if this draft produces a perenial all-star. I'm looking for the guys who can be solid starters.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:01 PM   #58
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No other draft picks for sure. Players and this years pick. Next years pick will be too good to give away. It'll be a much deeper draft and even if we pick 10-15 it could potentially bring us a player that will be better than what we get this year. College basketball is stacked next year. The draft classes that some of these teams have coming in next year in addition with what they already have coming back is pretty incredible. Duke is going to lose their two best players in Irving and Smith and they're still going to have more talent on their roster next year... I wouldn't trade a potential 2012 lottery pick unless it was for a player that we knew would be special.

The other thing I see is Darko wouldn't want to come back to Detroit. He really didn't like it here. I wouldn't actually mind having him back. I think he's turned into a fairly decent player and we could use him. I don't think he's quite the bust that everybody makes him out to be. I also don't think he has the work ethic or the killer instinct to ever be a stud in the league, but like I said I think he's still a decent player who just had too many people in front of him at the time here in Detroit.

The benefit to Minnesota with getting Rip is he would be the best player involved in the trade and could help them now. He's also a proven winner and a guy with a good work ethic that could help the younger guys.

God I'm so sick of people saying next year's draft will be better. The only year it was true was the year before the Lebron/Wade draft probably. Unless we are planning to pick top 5, I could care less about our draft pick next year. I'm not throwing away any asset, but if I can close a good deal, I give it up immediately.

You are simply not getting the #2 pick for anything we can offer that doesn't include next year's first. No way no how. Maybe if Stuckey is in the deal, but that won't be doable pre-CBA. If anything, making them take Rip in the deal may increase what we have to give them in return.

So now Rip is the best player in the deal and big help to Minny but we are desperate for a productive SG and Rip can't hepl us? Gotta make up your mind ther, ya know
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:19 PM   #59
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God I'm so sick of people saying next year's draft will be better. The only year it was true was the year before the Lebron/Wade draft probably. Unless we are planning to pick top 5, I could care less about our draft pick next year. I'm not throwing away any asset, but if I can close a good deal, I give it up immediately.

You are simply not getting the #2 pick for anything we can offer that doesn't include next year's first. No way no how. Maybe if Stuckey is in the deal, but that won't be doable pre-CBA. If anything, making them take Rip in the deal may increase what we have to give them in return.

So now Rip is the best player in the deal and big help to Minny but we are desperate for a productive SG and Rip can't hepl us? Gotta make up your mind ther, ya know

It's very true though. Next year will be a very very good draft. This year is exceptionally weak. We'll look back a few years from now and see that easily. There's really only a couple guys who might be real impact players and that's why everyone is talking about them at the top two. No way I give up next years pick. I do think they would want one of our young players with potential in return. Maybe someone like Austin Daye. I'd be fine with that for the 2nd pick because we could draft a guy like Williams who basically plays the same positions. I'd also like Williams just to say what position he's most comfortable at. If he's most comfortable at SF I think he has a chance to be really great in this league. Kind of like a Paul Pierce type. If he's more of a PF I'd be a bit scared of him.
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:32 PM   #60
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Our deficiencies last year were down low more than anything. We were near last in the league in things like paint scoring, post defense, defensive rebounding, FG%,FTs attemtped etc. We need quality bigs. Monroe was good and will be better, but will never be an elite shot blocker or post defender. He'll be a good help defender and rebounder who uses his size to his advantage, but he'll never be on all NBA defensive teams or anything. Charlie can't guard anyone and can't rebound his position. Maxiell does nothing and Ben seems finished. Jerebko is a boost, but he's an energy type, he's not a starting 4 on a title team.

We could use a true PG and a versatile SF who actually has the size to guard guys like Bron and Melo, we do need wing/scoring help, but down low has to be addressed first. We won first and foremost due to our athletic, defensive oriented bigs in the old days. The Wallace's

I can't say I disagree, but I'm more about just getting the best available player. We need a lot of help and I don't see much of anyone making an immediate impact at where we're picking. Also having JJ would have made those stats much better. Defensively I think he's fine. I think offensively is where his game needs to grow. I think we've had the conversation before and we both agree he's not a guy who will be a starting PF on a championship caliber club. I just don't necessarily see someone at the 8 spot who will be much better than him. Sheed was one of the best PF's in the game when we first got him and there really isn't any kind of talent like that in this draft. A 7 footer with his kind of range and a back to the basket game is pretty rare. I remember his days in Portland and he was basically unguardable. It's too bad he didn't appreciate the game more. He really could have been one of the all time greats.
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