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Old 06-20-2011, 12:46 AM   #106
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

I'm not huge on Kanter any more to be quite honest, but I'd be ok with it at 8. I don't like the idea of a Monroe/Kanter combo though. Its a nightmare defensively. Neither can defend pick and rolls or athletic PFs, neither alters shots at the rim. Reminds me of what Minnesota had with Love/Jefferson, which was a disaster.

I know you aren't in to him, but I'll be disappointed with anything but Biyombo. I like a lot of players in this draft. I feel the depth and overall quality is tremendously underrated after all the talk about how weak of a draft this was. The 3-6 spots are weaker than normal, but the mid to late lottery, the rest of the 1st and the 2nd aer all strong. Its funny too because looking at the guys that are in the draft now, the only guys who reallly hurt this draft by staying was Barnes. Jones,Jones and Sullinger would not be surefire lottery picks IMO.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:39 PM   #107
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

I think if we draft Biyombo as our future C then we need to go after a guy like Jeremy Tyler or Jujuan Johnson who can play more of the offensive role. When the Pistons were contenders we had Okur playing backup to Wallace and that dramatically changed games. I think even if Bismack turned into that defensive specialist we'd still need talent on our front line to make up for his lack of offensive ability. Guys like Wallace don't come around often. It seems like every year there's someone out there getting comparisons to him.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:50 PM   #108
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

Charlie V!

Lol. I wouldn't mind some more offense up front if we took Biyombo, but I don't think we need too much either. Monroe will be a scorer going forward and hopefully Jerebko can chip in some. A backup C who can knock down jumpers would be nice. Getting TYler at 33 wuold be awesome.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:04 PM   #109
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

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Houston continues to offer the 14th and 23rd picks in the draft to move into the top 10, and could have a willing partner with the Detroit Pistons at No. 8. The Pistons have told teams they won’t trade down until they see who drops to them on draft night, sources said. Yahoo

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The Pistons have a key workout scheduled for Tuesday, hosting Biyombo, Marcus Morris, Tristan Thompson, and Kawhi Leonard. Word among rival execs is that Detroit will take one of those players or Kemba Walker with the eighth pick. CBS Sports

Seeing this makes me wonder if Detroit is going to trade down. These are players who should be available in the 14-23 range (besides Walker maybe). I've been seeing a lot more on Detroit wanting Walker or Leonard over the past few days. If the draft Leonard we know for sure Tay and McGrady are probably out. I don't mind Leonard but I'd much rather see one of the other two guys back. I think Leonard is a guy who could be a nice backup in the league but nothing more. He's a little under sized for SF. He's listed at 6'6" or 6'7" (depending on your source). That's a few inches too short for that spot. For a guy who's supposed to be an elite defender how's he going to guard guys like Melo, Lebron, Pierce, etc? The other thing I find odd about his game is people always say how great a defender he is but I don't know if anybody remembers he tried to guard Jimmer Fredette and couldn't do it (twice).... Pretty weird that a guy who people say will be a very good defender in the NBA can't defend a guy that too many people are saying will be a backup. In Leonards defense I think Fredette is going to be better than people give him credit for. Anyway, the rumors out there are flying around. It's obvious the Pistons still have no decision made on the direction they're going with the pick.
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:01 AM   #110
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

It doesn't sound like Bismack did himself any favors at the workout today....

Quote:
Biyombo worked out in Detroit (No. 8) on Tuesday and a source said he played well, but no one on hand played as well as Kansas power forward Markieff Morris. Despite the fact that his twin brother, Marcus, has long been expected to be taken first between the two brothers, the source said Markieff is legitimately in play there.

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I'm hearing that if either [Kawhi] Leonard or [Kemba] Walker is on the board at No. 8, the Pistons are likely to take one of them. If both are gone, it's down to Biyombo, Tristan Thompson and Markieff Morris. The Pistons really like Valanciunas as well, but sources say they aren't willing to wait a year to get him.

Quote:
Thompson and [Derrick] Williams had the highest ratings of any player in the Draft Rater this year, and while that doesn't come with the same assurances it does for Kyrie Irving, they both appear to be very solid prospects. Of the 13 players who rated at 15.5 or above in previous iterations, most were very successful as pros, and the ones that weren't tended to fail due to injuries and lack of professionalism -- issues that shouldn't be factors for Thompson and Williams.

Thompson scored a 16.21 in Hollinger's rating system. To put that in perspective, it's a bit below what Blake Griffin (17.14), Andrew Bogut (16.90) and DeMarcus Cousins (16.86) posted coming out of college, but better than Greg Monroe (15.77), Chris Bosh (15.57) and Derrick Favors (15.51).

Before you get too excited, Hollinger's rating system clearly isn't perfect: Thompson is sandwiched between Michael Sweetney (16.70) and Curtis Borchardt (16.01). Who? Exactly. But the fact Thompson ranks as Hollinger's highest-rated big man (with the caveat of the missing internationals) is certainly a feather in his cap, even if no one outside of Hollinger truly understands what goes into the obscure ranking system.

(Markieff Morris, incidentally, ranks 16th with a 10.03. Hey Joe Dumars, remember what I said about not being impressed by workout warriors?)

That actually made my impression of Thompson go way up. I really believe in the Hollinger rating system. It has some flaws but overall does a good job.

After watching a ton more footage and reading about far more workouts I have chanced my opinions a bit. I think if Valanciunas slides to 8 now because of his contract you have to take him. He has way too much upside. He actually has extremely good hands and he's the only guy the other European coaches and scouts agree is a very good prospect out of Europe. Everybody else has limitations. I don't care if we wait a year for him because chances are the season will be shortened next year anyhow. Plus we aren't winning a championship next year. Another lottery pick won't hurt anything.

Kanter won't slide to 8 so there's no reason to hope for that anymore.

Biyombo is likely a bust. I just can't find enough good stuff on him. He seems like a nice kid but I just don't see him being that guy everybody wants him to be.

Even if Prince and McGrady walk I don't want Leonard. He's going to be a guy someone can use off the bench but that's it. I actually think there's about 5 other SF's who will be better than him in this draft. If we draft him at 8 I'll have a problem with that.

If Walker slides to 8 and we decide to draft him I won't be upset. I actually think we could get a guy like Fredette at a later pick and be just as happy. Looking at it more and more there just aren't enough difference makers in this draft. I have changed my stance on moving down in the draft. If we don't get Valanciunas at 8 I wouldn't mind making the Houston trade. I think if we were to snag a guy like Fredette and then get Jeremy Tyler we'd probably be better off. After watching the tape on Tyler I think he might end up being the best C in this draft. I don't think he'll make it to the 2nd round anymore. All of his workouts have been great and there was even tape of him working Kanter on NBA tv. He actually looks like a great compliment to Monroe with his back to the basket game. If we traded down and got him I'd be really happy with this draft. I was saying all along to pick him in the 2nd round but I just don't think he'll be there anymore. I don't see how he could make it past Miami.

The Morris twins are doing better than I originally thought they would too. They could be someone we could grab if we traded down as well. I actually think I like Thompson the best out of the PF's now though (which I really didn't think at the end of the college season).

So in a nutshell it's this.... Valanciunas at 8 or trade down. Bismack is a bust. There's a few guys in the teens that could be as good as the lottery picks. Next year the draft will be loaded so I'll be cool with Valanciunas being out for a season developing even more in Europe.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:00 PM   #111
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

Damn, just wrote out a really long post and lost it... So here's the TL;DR version.

Anyway, can't believe we're here already. I think I'm favoring Thompson at this point. Though imperfect, I think he could be a good fit next to Monroe and help cover up each other's weaknesses. Playing against a team with both Thompson and Jerebko could be very annoying, we need to become a more intense team and having one of these guys on the floor at all times would help.

Draftexpress currently has him going at 13.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:13 PM   #112
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

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Originally Posted by Kombo
Damn, just wrote out a really long post and lost it... So here's the TL;DR version.

Anyway, can't believe we're here already. I think I'm favoring Thompson at this point. Though imperfect, I think he could be a good fit next to Monroe and help cover up each other's weaknesses. Playing against a team with both Thompson and Jerebko could be very annoying, we need to become a more intense team and having one of these guys on the floor at all times would help.

Draftexpress currently has him going at 13.

Yeah, I didn't like him at first but his work ethic over the course of this draft process has been really impressive and he looks like he could be a nice pick. He's undersized but this draft just lacks the lottery star power. I think most of the Euro's are getting a little over rated mostly because we don't get to see as much of them. I still think Valanciunas is the guy you have to grab if he's there. Outside of that trading down and getting a guy like Thompson could be a good deal. There's a number of possibilities that could play out if they did the deal with Houston.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:20 PM   #113
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

Wow, after posting that I just read this....

Quote:
With top prospects in New York Thursday for media and service responsibilities, a person familiar with the draft discussions said the Pistons appear to have zeroed in on Texas small forward Tristan Thompson with the eighth pick. Thompson canceled other scheduled workouts after working out for the Pistons with five other players Wednesday. CBSSports.com

I'm not sure why they are calling him a SF because I don't think he's ever played that position, lol. I also just read in another draft board (that they frown upon us naming here) the pick is Thompson, which is the first time I saw that. That one also had a note it could be Valanciunas. Are they reading our thread, haha
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:06 PM   #114
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

So Leonard and Thompson both think they're coming here? Lol. Gotta love pre-draft coverage.

Thompson does seem to be moving up a lot. Getting talk as high as 4. He has a good work ethic, but not sure he's what we need. Good offensive rebounder, good athlete, no skills really. I'd rather do the Houston trade down than take him. Biyombo or trade down for me. If we could land 3 players from this draft, at 14,23 and 33, I'd be ecstatic. I really want to load up on rookies this year. The mid to late part of this draft is sick with depth(called thin due to lack of Harrison Barnes and co at the top). I'd love to get something like Singleton,Vucevic and D.Morris or Markieff,D.Morris and T.Honeycutt. Draft rater has Honeycutt 11th or 13th IIRC.

I like the draft rater by the way DD24, but it does miss on big men a lot , as it qualitfies in the article. Could be the case with THompson, who may not have a defined role. I need more O from my PF, especially paired with JJ.
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Old 06-22-2011, 05:40 PM   #115
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

I think Biyombo at 8 is crazy. The guy is highly likely going to be a bust. I think his stock has went down enough that he's probably not a lottery pick. I think if Joe D wanted he could trade down and still get him. I don't think Joe D is holding on the 8 pick because he wants to see if Bismack is going to be there. I think he's holding on to it to see if Valanciunas, Walker, or Kanter fall. If it's not one of them I think he makes the trade. As for Thompson I think they could still get him at 13 possibly. While his stock is up I don't think it's up far enough to get him into the top 10.

This draft is really thin. It's not just Harrison Barnes pulling out. There was a number of players. What teams are going to end up with is role players. There's definitely not a bunch of stars sitting at the end of the 1st round. Most of the guys at the end of the first round should be 2nd rounders and plenty of them will not be in the NBA long term (outside of their now guaranteed contracts). There's not much in terms of star power in this draft (which is what Detroit really needs). Detroit already has a ton of role players. I'm for trading down just to try to get a few guys that might be slightly better than what we have. If Valanciunas is there though, he has the upside to be one of the games top C's. That's a gamble we'd have to take.

The main thing with trading down for me is Tyler is going to be there. A few years down the road if we were to trade down for him and Bismack is a bust and Tyler is a stud Joe D will look like one of the smartest GM's in the league. I think he is one of the few that has some star potential in this draft, and the funny thing is he's going to be a late first rounder.

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Old 06-22-2011, 06:47 PM   #116
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd24
I think Biyombo at 8 is crazy. The guy is highly likely going to be a bust. I think his stock has went down enough that he's probably not a lottery pick. I think if Joe D wanted he could trade down and still get him. I don't think Joe D is holding on the 8 pick because he wants to see if Bismack is going to be there. I think he's holding on to it to see if Valanciunas, Walker, or Kanter fall. If it's not one of them I think he makes the trade. As for Thompson I think they could still get him at 13 possibly. While his stock is up I don't think it's up far enough to get him into the top 10.

This draft is really thin. It's not just Harrison Barnes pulling out. There was a number of players. What teams are going to end up with is role players. There's definitely not a bunch of stars sitting at the end of the 1st round. Most of the guys at the end of the first round should be 2nd rounders and plenty of them will not be in the NBA long term (outside of their now guaranteed contracts). There's not much in terms of star power in this draft (which is what Detroit really needs). Detroit already has a ton of role players. I'm for trading down just to try to get a few guys that might be slightly better than what we have. If Valanciunas is there though, he has the upside to be one of the games top C's. That's a gamble we'd have to take.

The main thing with trading down for me is Tyler is going to be there. A few years down the road if we were to trade down for him and Bismack is a bust and Tyler is a stud Joe D will look like one of the smartest GM's in the league. I think he is one of the few that has some star potential in this draft, and the funny thing is he's going to be a late first rounder.

I agree with what you're saying with Valanciunas. 7 doesn't come around that often. To be honest the first film I saw of him I thought the way me moved around the court was great for a big guy like that, and had the potential to be a very good player - highlight films will do that. I mean, 90% FT for a big guy I think shows how skilled he could be(come).

What turned me off about him didn't come from what little videos are out there, but stats (which I know isn't cool). But per 40 minutes, he averages just 1.7 blocks to his 8.2 fouls(he did do better in the Lithuanian league). What we need is a lane intimidator in the middle, and I'm afraid he's going to have Amir Johnson like tendencies.
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:55 PM   #117
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I was just looking at an old forum post from last year May. I had us taking Monroe last year and then Kanter this year at the time.

Damn the lockout or Kanter might have been pushed down to us and I'd feel like a prophet for a couple of days.

I also thought we'd be able to trade Rip for Chandler as his stock was so low. Oh how things have changed for that man.
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:54 PM   #118
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd24
I think Biyombo at 8 is crazy. The guy is highly likely going to be a bust. I think his stock has went down enough that he's probably not a lottery pick. I think if Joe D wanted he could trade down and still get him. I don't think Joe D is holding on the 8 pick because he wants to see if Bismack is going to be there. I think he's holding on to it to see if Valanciunas, Walker, or Kanter fall. If it's not one of them I think he makes the trade. As for Thompson I think they could still get him at 13 possibly. While his stock is up I don't think it's up far enough to get him into the top 10.

This draft is really thin. It's not just Harrison Barnes pulling out. There was a number of players. What teams are going to end up with is role players. There's definitely not a bunch of stars sitting at the end of the 1st round. Most of the guys at the end of the first round should be 2nd rounders and plenty of them will not be in the NBA long term (outside of their now guaranteed contracts). There's not much in terms of star power in this draft (which is what Detroit really needs). Detroit already has a ton of role players. I'm for trading down just to try to get a few guys that might be slightly better than what we have. If Valanciunas is there though, he has the upside to be one of the games top C's. That's a gamble we'd have to take.

The main thing with trading down for me is Tyler is going to be there. A few years down the road if we were to trade down for him and Bismack is a bust and Tyler is a stud Joe D will look like one of the smartest GM's in the league. I think he is one of the few that has some star potential in this draft, and the funny thing is he's going to be a late first rounder.

That's just not true. Multiple GMs have said there are more worthy first rounders than normal. More teams than usual are trying to acquire late 1sts as well. Most years teams are looking to sell them off. I haven't heard that from one team yet. I never said the end of the 1st was loaded with stars. I simply said it is stronger than your average year. There are never a bunch of stars at the end of the 1st.

If I have to take a guy who is raw with high potential, give me the one with the great attitude and work ethic. I just don't see any chance Biyombo is a bust. He is too NBA ready right now. It all depends on what you expect of him I guess. I expect a Ben Wallace type. It'll be hard to match everything Ben did, but if he can come any where close it'll be a steal IMO. Defensively dominating Cs are one of the rarest and most valuable commodities in the game. The draft rater was pretty kind to Biyombo as well. Pretty sure he was in the lottery.

I'd be ok with Valalnciunas even if it means waiting a year. So long as they think he is the best player available by a pretty good margin. If its close, you take the guy who will be here this year. He and Monroe could be a very nice frontcourt with JJ off the bench.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:03 PM   #119
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kombo
I was just looking at an old forum post from last year May. I had us taking Monroe last year and then Kanter this year at the time.

Damn the lockout or Kanter might have been pushed down to us and I'd feel like a prophet for a couple of days.

I also thought we'd be able to trade Rip for Chandler as his stock was so low. Oh how things have changed for that man.

The lockout really screwed over our draft this year....
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Old 06-23-2011, 03:57 AM   #120
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Default Re: Piston draft prospects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kombo
I was just looking at an old forum post from last year May. I had us taking Monroe last year and then Kanter this year at the time.

Damn the lockout or Kanter might have been pushed down to us and I'd feel like a prophet for a couple of days.

I also thought we'd be able to trade Rip for Chandler as his stock was so low. Oh how things have changed for that man.

Rip for Chandler should have happened.....

So if we're predicting the future here, who's your pick for next year?
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