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Old 03-16-2011, 05:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
Because if at the core of your being, you don't think there's something wrong with him getting the absolute #1 tip top individual player award for the entire sport, much in the same way that Nash got two, Iverson got one, etc... then you just don't get it... and there's nothing I will ever be able to say to convince you otherwise.
Valuable-High in worth
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So you can be valuable...without being the best. NO ONE is saying he's the best. NOT ONE person on this board has said he is the best player in the league.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:25 PM   #17
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
I'm not sure the award is a "joke". It's still the MVP. If your an All-Time great most of the time you'll find yourself winning one. Recently tho it's been kinda lame. When Shaq has one MVP and Nash has 2x there's probably a flaw in the system.

It's just a weak year for the MVP so Rose will see some undeserved hate. He should be in the discussion. Just probably shouldn't be the actual MVP at this stage in his career, at at his current level but not his fault. LeBron\Wade teaming up hinders two big time MVP candidates. Spurs not having anyone in there prime, no 1 guy truly elite takes another spot out of the running. L.A is having a down year in terms of wins vs other teams and Kobe's on a statistical decline. Magic aren't elite record wise so hinders Howard.

As much as it's a weak year for MVP I'm liking the surprise factor. Better than knowing LeBron was going to get it the past 2 years.

Great objective post. I couldn't agree more.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
Because if at the core of your being, you don't think there's something wrong with him getting the absolute #1 tip top individual player award for the entire sport, much in the same way that Nash got two, Iverson got one, etc... then you just don't get it... and there's nothing I will ever be able to say to convince you otherwise.
I never thought the MVP was about being the absolute tip top #1 talent in the league. It's about being the most valuable player on one of the better teams in the league. Rose has check marks next to both of those. He's also, statistically, 45% of the Bulls offense (through assists and points scored, more than ANYONE IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE).

I think there's a profound misunderstanding of what the award truly means and it doesn't surprise me, honestly.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
Because if at the core of your being, you don't think there's something wrong with him getting the absolute #1 tip top individual player award for the entire sport, much in the same way that Nash got two, Iverson got one, etc... then you just don't get it... and there's nothing I will ever be able to say to convince you otherwise.

Nash and Iverson in their prime were amazing players... AND WERE VALUABLE TO THEIR TEAM. I don't care if Rose is the "worst" mvp to win the award, he'll still be among the greats. How many players after they retire, could ever say the words, "I was an MVP." Let alone, "I am/was the youngest player to win the MVP award". I'm sorry your idol Dwight couldn't win it this year, perhaps if he joins Dwill or a team that can be a contender, he'll probably have a shot.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkfosho
Nash and Iverson in their prime were amazing players... AND WERE VALUABLE TO THEIR TEAM. I don't care if Rose is the "worst" mvp to win the award, he'll still be among the greats. I'm sorry your idol Dwight couldn't win it this year, perhaps if he joins Dwill or a team that can be a contender, he'll probably have a shot.
He's being shockingly decent for once, no need to bait him :P
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
45% of the Bulls offense (through assists and points scored, more than ANYONE IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE).

lol since when was getting an assist on a bucket make you responsible for it? Let's take a look at every single one of his assists and we can break down every one where he completely set the table for a guy and what one's he simply just dumped it off and his teammate made the shot.

Reaaaaally bad logic right there.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:29 PM   #22
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
lol since when was getting an assist on a bucket make you responsible for it? Let's take a look at every single one of his assists and we can break down every one where he completely set the table for a guy and what one's he simply just dumped it off and his teammate made the shot.

Reaaaaally bad logic right there.
lolwut? This post made my head hurt.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by jasonresno
MJ, Doc Rivers, Phil Jackson, Juwan Howard, Chris Bosh....
Damn, way to ruin it..

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Old 03-16-2011, 05:32 PM   #24
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
lolwut? This post made my head hurt.

Well that explains your post than.

You said Rose was responsible for 45% of the Bulls offense. Using Assists + Points. So let's say 30 times this year, Rose has simply dumped off a pass for an easy shot that makes him responsible for the bucket?. What about when Deng makes a tough shot? Boozer? Just because Rose passed the ball to them, you can say he's responsible for 45% of the offense?.

Be curious to see what John Stockton's points + assists add up to compared to someone like Charles Barkey\Hakeem\Jordan.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:33 PM   #25
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

MVP = Most Valuable Player.

Lebron is not the clear cut MVP of his team. Rose is, he carries that team, that is what it means to be MVP. It doesn't matter if Lebron is better.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
Valuable-High in worth
best-#1

So you can be valuable...without being the best. NO ONE is saying he's the best. NOT ONE person on this board has said he is the best player in the league.

How can you be the most valuable without being the best? "To their respective team" is the argument that will be presented, and I can't disagree more with that line of reasoning... because it's stupid. Not only that, in Rose's case, it's not even true, that's the funniest part of this whole thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
I never thought the MVP was about being the absolute tip top #1 talent in the league. It's about being the most valuable player on one of the better teams in the league. Rose has check marks next to both of those. He's also, statistically, 45% of the Bulls offense (through assists and points scored, more than ANYONE IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE).

I think there's a profound misunderstanding of what the award truly means and it doesn't surprise me, honestly.

I know the criteria used over the years to select the winner of the award and I know what you, personally, think it means. And there's a lot of people in line with your thinking. Your line of thinking is also the overwhelming majority of the way people think. Guess what? You are, and they are, dead wrong.

It should be for the #1 tip top player. It's the #1 tip top award in the sport whose sole purpose is to recognize an individual. What the hell is the point of having an award for an individual if team success is going to be such an incredibly large factor?

Should Chicago win the title, and Rose were to win Finals MVP, that would be perfectly acceptable... and more than likely, he would deserve it, because he is without a doubt the MVP of the Bulls. Rose winning the regular season MVP, which is the top award in the sport for individuals is not acceptable to anyone who cares about the integrity of the award.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:33 PM   #27
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Grieves
MVP = Most Valuable Player.

Lebron is not the clear cut MVP of his team. Rose is, he carries that team, that is what it means to be MVP. It doesn't matter if Lebron is better.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:35 PM   #28
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
How can you be the most valuable without being the best? "To their respective team" is the argument that will be presented, and I can't disagree more with that line of reasoning... because it's stupid. Not only that, in Rose's case, it's not even true, that's the funniest part of this whole thing.


Oh you mean it's logical. Gotcha.

So jordan then Shaq, then Kobe, then LeBron should have all the MVPs and magic and Bird before Jordan. Got it!
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:35 PM   #29
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

I can make ROSE sit the BENCH
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:36 PM   #30
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
Oh you mean it's logical. Gotcha.

So jordan then Shaq, then Kobe, then LeBron should have all the MVPs and magic and Bird before Jordan. Got it!
That's not even true, there have been some years in the 2000s where there hasn't been a clear-cut best player.
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