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Old 03-16-2011, 06:36 PM   #31
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
lol since when was getting an assist on a bucket make you responsible for it? Let's take a look at every single one of his assists and we can break down every one where he completely set the table for a guy and what one's he simply just dumped it off and his teammate made the shot.

Reaaaaally bad logic right there.
So now assists aren't worth anything. I love ISH logic. We should probably dock points from his PPG total too. I mean, how many layups has he gotten? Those are so easy.



Quote:
I know the criteria used over the years to select the winner of the award and I know what you, personally, think it means. And there's a lot of people in line with your thinking. Your line of thinking is also the overwhelming majority of the way people think. Guess what? You are, and they are, dead wrong.
OK, got it. EVERYONE ELSE is wrong, not you :P. And to your later quote about not rewarding team success. You're absolutely right. **** it, Kevin Love is putting up 22/15. Set the modern NBA record for consecutive double doubles. MVP his ass.

You are delusional, bro.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:37 PM   #32
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Yea, especially when guys like Steve Nash win it.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:38 PM   #33
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by creepingdeath
That's not even true, there have been some years in the 2000s where there hasn't been a clear-cut best player.
By and large the decade was dominated by shaq then kobe then lebron.
Timmy was better in a couple years, but that's about it, maybe, just maybe you could give it to Nash in 06.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:38 PM   #34
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by midatlantic09
Yea, especially when guys like Steve Nash win it.


I still don't know what the criteria is..
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:39 PM   #35
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
Oh you mean it's logical. Gotcha.

So jordan then Shaq, then Kobe, then LeBron should have all the MVPs and magic and Bird before Jordan. Got it!

Yes. Because they were the most valuable players to have on your team period.

The fact that they had good supporting casts most of the time does not diminish their actual value.

It's like saying that if you put a bunch of pieces of shit next to a piece of silver in one spot, and in an entirely different spot you have a piece of gold next to a bunch of pieces of silver, that the silver that is next to the pieces of shit is more valuable than the gold. That's essentially what we're saying here, and what this entire thing boils down to. It's wrong. Period.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:40 PM   #36
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
So now assists aren't worth anything. I love ISH logic. We should probably dock points from his PPG total too. I mean, how many layups has he gotten? Those are so easy.


Are you honestly that stupid or just extremely insecure when it comes to Rose? I simply said does his 7 or 8 assists a game directly make him responsible for it like you implied. So because he makes a pass to Boozer Rose get's credit for it, and not Boozer who actually scores the bucket?. What about a Dwight Howard block the leads to a transition bucket? Or a Dwayne Wade forced turnover eventually leading to a Miami bucket? Do they get a certain % of the offense production because of that?.

Read my original post. No hate towards Rose what so ever. No hate towards anything besides the statement that PPG + APG = % of the offense. Maybe if your 12 and reading a boxscore but anybody with a brain would realize how flawed that logic truly is.

Seriously. Since you believe in doing that for Rose. Let's do the same for Stockton vs Jordan\Barkely\Hakeem. I'll be waiting on your response.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:40 PM   #37
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quinn
I can make ROSE sit the BENCH

you are a stupid vegetable
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:41 PM   #38
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
By and large the decade was dominated by shaq then kobe then lebron.
Timmy was better in a couple years, but that's about it, maybe, just maybe you could give it to Nash in 06.
KG might have a case for 2004... Dirk, and I'm being completely serious here, has had a case in 2006, especially if we look at the postseason, too.

Even if we exclude those guys (wrongfully so, I guess), it'd be Timmy, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron. Four guys for a decade, so what?
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:42 PM   #39
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
Yes. Because they were the most valuable players to have on your team period.

The fact that they had good supporting casts most of the time does not diminish their actual value.

It's like saying that if you put a bunch of pieces of shit next to a piece of silver in one spot, and in an entirely different spot you have a piece of gold next to a bunch of pieces of silver, that the silver that is next to the pieces of shit is more valuable than the gold. That's essentially what we're saying here, and what this entire thing boils down to. It's wrong. Period.
You do realize there'd be maybe 12 MVPs total with that logic right?
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:42 PM   #40
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
So now assists aren't worth anything. I love ISH logic. We should probably dock points from his PPG total too. I mean, how many layups has he gotten? Those are so easy.

He's saying you shouldn't attribute assists as someone's value to an offense at equal weight to points scored. Otherwise that would mean Stockton was more important to his offense than Jordan because he scored/assisted on x% of shots. Scoring 20 and getting 10 assists isn't equivalent to scoring 40 points.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Are you honestly that stupid or just extremely insecure when it comes to Rose? I simply said does his 7 or 8 assists a game directly make him responsible for it like you implied. So because he makes a pass to Boozer Rose get's credit for it, and not Boozer who actually scores the bucket?. What about a Dwight Howard block the leads to a transition bucket? Or a Dwayne Wade forced turnover eventually leading to a Miami bucket? Do they get a certain % of the offense production because of that?.

Read my original post. No hate towards Rose what so ever. No hate towards anything besides the statement that PPG + APG = % of the offense. Maybe if your 12 and reading a boxscore but anybody with a brain would realize how flawed that logic truly is.

Seriously. Since you believe in doing that for Rose. Let's do the same for Stockton vs Jordan\Barkely\Hakeem. I'll be waiting on your response.
You're absolutely right. We aren't even including when Rose will drive into the lane, collapse the defense, and pass to Bogans who will pass to Deng for an open 3. We are shortchanging the man.

Assists and scoring are direct lines to points scored for your team and it's especially relevant when we're talking about a PG. It's indicative to how effective he runs the offense.

But yeah, I'm absolutely interested in how Stockton/Jordan breakdown. Let me know what you find out.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:43 PM   #42
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by creepingdeath
KG might have a case for 2004... Dirk, and I'm being completely serious here, has had a case in 2006, especially if we look at the postseason, too.

Even if we exclude those guys (wrongfully so, I guess), it'd be Timmy, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron. Four guys for a decade, so what?
because it's valuable, not da bess award.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:44 PM   #43
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
OK, got it. EVERYONE ELSE is wrong, not you :P. And to your later quote about not rewarding team success. You're absolutely right. **** it, Kevin Love is putting up 22/15. Set the modern NBA record for consecutive double doubles. MVP his ass.

You are delusional, bro.

Who said anything about stats? What the hell does Kevin Love have to do with anything? Anyone who watches the games knows that Kevin Love isn't nearly as good as Derrick Rose. Please.

Yes, there are a lot of stupid people on this planet. I am smarter than the vast majority of them. My IQ is 137. But we're straying off topic... lol...

In this instance, yes, nearly everyone else is wrong. Large groups of people can be wrong, bud. Maybe you'll figure that out one day.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:45 PM   #44
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
You do realize there'd be maybe 12 MVPs total with that logic right?

And? I'm not interested in sympathetic MVPs, which is what we have going on right now. I'm not interested in giving the award to someone who I want to see win it. I'm interested in who deserves it. Otherwise, what's the point of having the award?
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:45 PM   #45
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
You're absolutely right. We aren't even including when Rose will drive into the lane, collapse the defense, and pass to Bogans who will pass to Deng for an open 3. We are shortchanging the man.

Assists and scoring are direct lines to points scored for your team. That's why they are used for that metric.

You're making an awful argument and looking like a tool in doing so.

First part I agree 100%. Rose doing that is huge for the offense. Is it showing up as an assist, no. If it did should it be added 2 points to his point total and a % of the offense, no.

I'm a tool. Go make a thread about how 20 points + 10 assists = 40 points and a % of that players teams offense. Watch yourself get laughed at.

It's like you think the person who get's the assist is responsible or as responsible as the person SCORING the ball. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. Sometimes they don't do shit and it's the player making a tough shot.
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