Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Toronto Raptors Forum

Toronto Raptors Forum Toronto Raptors message board - Toronto Raptors forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-18-2011, 09:18 AM   #16
bluerap
Local High School Star
 
bluerap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,013
bluerap has decent reputation
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
So the SG isn't an important defensive position? How would Monta stack up against Kobe? Ray Allen? Joe Johnson? Manu Ginobli? D-Wade? Etc... you see where i'm going with this. This to me proves you guys simply don't like Bargnani. Why not a practical guy like an Eric Gordon let's say who puts up nearly as many points (albeit not as flashy) but plays a lot better on the defensive side of the floor?

I think if Monta were on our team people would start criticizing his d soon enough.

But that doesn't change the fact that this is Andrea's team at the moment and he is leading them (or not leading them if you prefer) into the gutter.

Clearly this team needs a new face of the franchise.

Monta is a possible target because he may be attainable for Andrea.
bluerap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 09:55 AM   #17
bada bing
College star
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,231
bada bing is a pretty well-respected posterbada bing is a pretty well-respected posterbada bing is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnman
Oohh. I love Eric Gordon. Would love to have him. But as practicality goes, we have a better shot at getting Monta than we do Eric Gordon.

And nope, SG isn't as important as C when it comes to defensive position. Here's the beauty of having Monta and the ugly truth.

On a Monta team, you can have weaker PG and SF offensively, but guys who can just play defense. If you have a tall PG, or a SF who is just a great D player and can hit wide open 3s, that's all you need as far as the backcourt and wings are concerned.

Again, no one hates Bargnani for Bargnani. It's just what he does defensively. As many have said, if he was a 6th man, it wouldn't bother that many people. Even last game against Detroit, Leo and Matt were like, what is bargnani doing? He didn't even try.

There are some very basic concepts that I will lay out for you, for the final time, and I will number them so you can read each one. Get it through your head, repeat it, so you don't ever forget it:

1) Bargnani's most effective position and the position where he can succeed in the NBA the most is PF (a position where the Raptors have 4 guys [in terms of their importance to the future] - Ed Davis, Amir, Dorsey, Evans)

2) Bargnani is a terrible rebounder. (Worst starting rebounder for a C/PF in the NBA)

3) In the NBA, you cannot win, if Bargnani is not surrounded by a defensive minded C who rebounds out of this world (Only one guy in the NBA that is there, Dwight Howard).

4) In the NBA, you cannot win, if Bargnani is not surrounded by Dwight Howard, even if the C is defensive minded, if the wings do not rebound the ball above average to exceptionally well and play defense exceptionally well.

5) Bargnani is best-suited to be a 6th man in the NBA, where when his shot is falling, you keep him on the floor, and when his shot isn't falling you can sit him on the bench. You can put Bargnani on the current Lakers and he'd look fantastic. Heck, you can even put him on the Heat, and he'd look great.

6) Bargnani does nothing but score the ball, and even that, he doesn't do it efficiently. Especially when you consider that he is a big. You don't mind Bargnani shooting 45% from the field if he is hitting at least 38% from three while making around 1.5 3s a game and getting to the FT line 5-6 times a game. (DeMar is similar to Bargnani in that aspect, he doesn't do anything right now except score the ball. He has shown the ability to draw fouls though better than Bargnani).

7) Bargnani cannot create his own shot.

8) Bargnani still hasn't learned how to pass off a double team.

9) Bargnani gets neutralized if you put a smaller guy on him and just crowd his space

10) Bargnani is not improving anymore. This is his 5th year. Players don't usually improve after their 5th year. The first three years are very telling. Players refine their game from then on, but pretty much, what you see is what you get with him. He will never improve on D, he will never become a good rebounder. He has actually regressed this year on D from last year.

11) Bargnani used to be a decent post man to man defender. But once his man put the ball on the floor? See ya!

If I remember more, I will add. But for the time being, memorize this...

very well said. I hope we can make a sticky of this.

and to the clown that is bashing this post, just shut up. What is it in those posts that brownman said was wrong? He didn't lie about anything. He is just stating the truth.
bada bing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 12:24 PM   #18
lilbeastnani
InsideScoops
 
lilbeastnani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Chambs house
Posts: 3,045
lilbeastnani has a bad reputationlilbeastnani has a bad reputationlilbeastnani has a bad reputationlilbeastnani has a bad reputation
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
It is more and more impressive how much effort some posters put just to bash Bargnani and Calderon... Sometimes I would swear that you are fans from a rival team
This. It's ridiculous.
lilbeastnani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 12:40 PM   #19
Jballer
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,357
Jballer has decent reputationJballer has decent reputation
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnman
Chris Kaman to me is actually a gettable target. The only thing is, we're not in a position to get him. He's a little pricey, but he is the prototypical Center. He'll rebound, play some D, and can play in the post. His two big issues? Staying healthy, and playing against faster bigs. One we can deal with, the other, not so much...

Not getable from our team ?

Not sure I see the logic in that mate. Kaman is "unrestricted in 12" - about the same time the Clipper will have to commit big to a certain budding superstar who can win slam dunk contests.

Additionally the Raptors have plenty of pieces both with contracts expiring sooner AND with contracts where they could pick up cost certaintly for 2 years to surround their star player with some talent.

Clippers have not been exactly noted for spending up to the cap or investing long term in their FA's....
Jballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 12:44 PM   #20
keantona
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 272
keantona has decent reputation
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
It is more and more impressive how much effort some posters put just to bash Bargnani and Calderon... Sometimes I would swear that you are fans from a rival team

Bargnani is the face of our franchise, our highest paid player, the management's hope for the future... and a league-wide joke. While the Raptors are as pathetic as they are, you can't blame their fans for being frustrated by someone whose presence as the centrepiece of the team is a huge reason they suck so hard, and whose continuing presence will be a major roadblock in the way of them getting better. He's an embarassment and he often doesn't even try.

brwnman eloquently said a lot of the things that so any fans feel.

I don't know what Calderon has to do with this.
keantona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 01:03 PM   #21
RaininThrees
Meats Don't Clash
 
RaininThrees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,997
RaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnman
2) Bargnani is a terrible rebounder. (Worst starting rebounder for a C/PF in the NBA)


go to basketball-reference and do a specific search for 7 footers on this.

The results will be unsurprising.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...psl_finder.cgi
RaininThrees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 03:18 PM   #22
Doko
High School Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 831
Doko has decent reputation
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
It is more and more impressive how much effort some posters put just to bash Bargnani and Calderon... Sometimes I would swear that you are fans from a rival team

This.
They shouldn't call themselves Raptors fans at all.
Doko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 06:25 PM   #23
brwnman
.
 
brwnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,662
brwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jballer
Not getable from our team ?

Not sure I see the logic in that mate. Kaman is "unrestricted in 12" - about the same time the Clipper will have to commit big to a certain budding superstar who can win slam dunk contests.

I meant not gettable in the sense that we have no need for him. We're not looking to contend, we're rebuilding, no need to get Kaman. I guess if you get Bargnani for Kaman, you do it, since he comes off the books sooner. But I would've like to see that type of deal when Bosh was still around and we were looking to contend.

Quote:
It is more and more impressive how much effort some posters put just to bash Bargnani and Calderon... Sometimes I would swear that you are fans from a rival team
Quote:

This.
They shouldn't call themselves Raptors fans at all.

Quote:
This. It's ridiculous.

What are you guys, puppets? I stated facts. I am all for debates and discussions, but you cannot argue facts. We are all Raptors fans, and we've been longing for a consistent winner for a long time. Way before you clowns ever showed up, long after you clowns are gone. I want to see a perennial contender. I am tired of always fighting for 8th place, always being swept in the first round. I want to see improvement year by year and I wanna see this team win a championship. And therefore, we propose some changes that we feel would benefit the club now and in the long run...
brwnman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 08:35 PM   #24
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,496
Toni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doko
This.
They shouldn't call themselves Raptors fans at all.

I am a Raptors realist and I want this team to succeed in the future. That is unlikely having 10M tied up in guys like Bargnani and Calderon. Keep living in your Euro dream world where Calderon and Bargnani are clearly all-stars and 1st team NBA players leading the Raptors to a championship
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 08:45 PM   #25
Doko
High School Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 831
Doko has decent reputation
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
I am a Raptors realist and I want this team to succeed in the future. That is unlikely having 10M tied up in guys like Bargnani and Calderon. Keep living in your Euro dream world where Calderon and Bargnani are clearly all-stars and 1st team NBA players leading the Raptors to a championship

Living in my Euro dream world makes me actually cheer for my team and like my players. Living outside of it makes you cheer for opposing teams and hate on your players. Keep on with this attitude, I prefer to be a fan.
Doko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 09:37 PM   #26
bluerap
Local High School Star
 
bluerap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,013
bluerap has decent reputation
Default Re: Monta Ellis

I used to like our team... when they were winning games... 10 years ago.

It is brainless fans that continue to support this team as their season goes in the toilet that leads management to believe they don't really need to compete to make profits.
bluerap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2011, 09:48 PM   #27
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,272
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doko
Living in my Euro dream world makes me actually cheer for my team and like my players. Living outside of it makes you cheer for opposing teams and hate on your players. Keep on with this attitude, I prefer to be a fan.
A "fan" doesn't mean a guy who has to cheer for a shitty team. If you like the team as is, so be it, there's no guidelines or requirements for being a fan. But it doesn't make you any less of a fan to cheer for the team when they're good but to talk about how to improve them when they're bad.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 08:10 AM   #28
FCardelle
High School JV MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 678
FCardelle has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnman
What are you guys, puppets? I stated facts. I am all for debates and discussions, but you cannot argue facts. We are all Raptors fans, and we've been longing for a consistent winner for a long time. Way before you clowns ever showed up, long after you clowns are gone. I want to see a perennial contender. I am tired of always fighting for 8th place, always being swept in the first round. I want to see improvement year by year and I wanna see this team win a championship. And therefore, we propose some changes that we feel would benefit the club now and in the long run...
You can call us puppets, clowns or whatever. But the fact is that it was you who spent half an hour to write down exactly what most of the posters write again and again... and that probably nobody read your entire post just because of that. So, who is the puppet and the clown...?
FCardelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 08:14 AM   #29
bluerap
Local High School Star
 
bluerap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,013
bluerap has decent reputation
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
You can call us puppets, clowns or whatever. But the fact is that it was you who spent half an hour to write down exactly what most of the posters write again and again... and that probably nobody read your entire post just because of that. So, who is the puppet and the clown...?

Aren't you, doko and lilbeast writing the same things over and over again?
bluerap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 08:26 AM   #30
brwnman
.
 
brwnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,662
brwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
You can call us puppets, clowns or whatever. But the fact is that it was you who spent half an hour to write down exactly what most of the posters write again and again... and that probably nobody read your entire post just because of that. So, who is the puppet and the clown...?

That took maybe 5 minutes to write. And I said in advance that I am laying it out for people like you to understand. I don't really see an argument otherwise, all you guys say is, 'love thy team.' And to your question, you guys are the puppets and the clowns...
brwnman is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:02 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy