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Old 03-19-2011, 09:26 AM   #31
FCardelle
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Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnman
That took maybe 5 minutes to write. And I said in advance that I am laying it out for people like you to understand. I don't really see an argument otherwise, all you guys say is, 'love thy team.' And to your question, you guys are the puppets and the clowns...
You should use a clock for a better administration of your time...
And to your answer... the question was rethorical...

Doko, Lilbeastnani and myself have different opinions in most things and we are very different kind of posters. It is the rest of you who form a cohesive group in things like hate to Bargnani, trade Calderon, hope in Derozan, Ed Davis, tank hard etc.
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:34 AM   #32
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Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
You should use a clock for a better administration of your time...
And to your answer... the question was rethorical...

Doko, Lilbeastnani and myself have different opinions in most things and we are very different kind of posters. It is the rest of you who form a cohesive group in things like hate to Bargnani, trade Calderon, hope in Derozan, Ed Davis, tank hard etc.

I don't think anyone 'hates' Bargnani... I think we all just realize exactly what he is, which I don't need to re-hash.

As for the other stuff, if Calderon being on this team will make them better in the future, then I'd be all for him remaining here... but the fact is, when this team might be ready to compete, with the players currently on the roster (Yes, that's DeRozan, Davis & Johnson), Calderon will be on the wrong side of 30. The best thing for the organization right now is to try and trade him to someone who might be able to use him and get some value back (he's still got value IMO, I personally think he takes a bit too much heat - his defensive problems are exacerbated by the fact that he doesn't have anyone behind him to back him up *CoughBARGNANICough*, so every time he gets beat, and lets face it, most PGS in the NBA get beat on a regular basis, there's a strong chance his check scores).

This isn't anything personal against any of the players to me, its just being honest about what types of players they are, and where their value to club lies.
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:46 AM   #33
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Default Re: Monta Ellis

I just want to throw in my two-cents about "hating" Calderon and Bargnani. I personally would love to see Calderon traded to another team with more tallent to overcome his deficiencies and to hopefully see him return to the form he had a few years back before, as RainingThrees said, he hits the wrong side of thirty.

I'd also wish Bargs well if he were traded to another team to be a lethal 6'th man. In both their cases what I don't like is how they fit with Toronto, not them personally. I've learned that there's no point in liking any athelete personally because they will inevitably let you down (I'm looking at you MJ and your ridonculous HoF speech).
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Old 03-19-2011, 10:55 AM   #34
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Default Re: Monta Ellis

Another hijacked thread.
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Old 03-19-2011, 01:38 PM   #35
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Default Re: Monta Ellis

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Another hijacked thread.
Now all we need is B4ball to jump in this thread and say how I somehow caused/started this argument and then we'll be complete.
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:36 PM   #36
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Default Re: Monta Ellis

The thing about Calderon though, he is a pretty decent point (on offense) who can find his team. I understand the need (want) to upgrade at the 1 and 5 defensively for the longterm but the truth of the matter is (correct me if I'm wrong) we only have that 1 first rounder pick.

I think we can all agree that Ed Davis, should he continue to improve, is most likely a big piece of our future and should be our starting PF.

Derozan, while not being an all around amazing player has at least developed his offensive game and should sooner or later pick up on defense.

So if, as many of you are claiming, these two players are players we SHOULD keep in our future puzzle (barring any great trades laid out on the table), we have the 2 and 4 locked up.

The draft pick we currently possess which will most likely be 5 or possibly higher if we're lucky can only fill the 1, 3, or 5.

If we were gunning for a PG, Irving seems to be the consensus pick although it may be difficult in obtaining him. Kemba Walker is the second best PG of the draft.

Where am I trying to go with all of this? Well, chances are quite big, barring any tournament madness or lottery luck, that we will not get Irving with our pick and unless you guys want to take Walker, we're probably not going to have a new PG in our rotation in the coming year.

Bearing this mind, I honestly don't think having Calderon, who is a solid steady true PG who will distribute the rock well (unlike Bayless, who for all of his footspeed can't stay on the floor due to fouls/turnovers) on board next year is a bad thing at all. Unless I am mistaken, we signed him to his contract during the 08-09 season, which including this year has been 3 years. Next year will be the 4th year, and if we still have him on board for one more year he will be an expirer at 8.5M per.

While having salary cap is a nice thing, I strongly believe that last summer's events made everyone realize that having salary cap is potentially meaningless if you are not NY or LA or MIA.

I'm all for getting rid of Bargnani whenever as I'm tired of seeing him miss rotations and failing to box out his man, leading to easy layups or putbacks. Calderon however I don't mind keeping if we don't land the PG of our dreams in the upcoming draft.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:17 PM   #37
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Default Re: Monta Ellis

90% of the people here thought that Jack was better than Calderon, that's enough said.
Calderon is a really good player, and he has proved than when he's 100% healthy he's not as bad on D as someone wants to make him.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:29 PM   #38
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Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doko
90% of the people here thought that Jack was better than Calderon, that's enough said.
Calderon is a really good player, and he has proved than when he's 100% healthy he's not as bad on D as someone wants to make him.

Do you remember how Jose played in the beginning of the season? He couldn't make any shots. That's why we were in favour of Jack.

The point is Jose is not part of the future of this club. He's solid, but just not talented enough to be a starter, unless he's playing strictly as a role player in a system like the Lakers' or Miami's, where the ball runs through the SF or SG.
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:37 PM   #39
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Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doko
90% of the people here thought that Jack was better than Calderon, that's enough said.
Calderon is a really good player, and he has proved than when he's 100% healthy he's not as bad on D as someone wants to make him.
It's like you read what everyone writes and put your own little spin on it, either that or you just don't understand what is being written. Nobody, and I mean nobody, EVER said Jarret Jack is a better point guard than Jose Calderon. Some people (including myself) preferred him early in the season but not because anyone thought he was better but because of what he brought to the table and at half of the cost. He was a tough, hard nosed, leader that took control when things got tough and never quit. As a point guard, he wasn't even really a pure pg, more like a poor man's chauncey billups. But again, nobody said he was the better of the two, so please stop making things up.
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Old 03-20-2011, 12:51 AM   #40
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Default Re: Monta Ellis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy
The thing about Calderon though, he is a pretty decent point (on offense) who can find his team. I understand the need (want) to upgrade at the 1 and 5 defensively for the longterm but the truth of the matter is (correct me if I'm wrong) we only have that 1 first rounder pick.

I think we can all agree that Ed Davis, should he continue to improve, is most likely a big piece of our future and should be our starting PF.

Derozan, while not being an all around amazing player has at least developed his offensive game and should sooner or later pick up on defense.

So if, as many of you are claiming, these two players are players we SHOULD keep in our future puzzle (barring any great trades laid out on the table), we have the 2 and 4 locked up.

The draft pick we currently possess which will most likely be 5 or possibly higher if we're lucky can only fill the 1, 3, or 5.

If we were gunning for a PG, Irving seems to be the consensus pick although it may be difficult in obtaining him. Kemba Walker is the second best PG of the draft.

Where am I trying to go with all of this? Well, chances are quite big, barring any tournament madness or lottery luck, that we will not get Irving with our pick and unless you guys want to take Walker, we're probably not going to have a new PG in our rotation in the coming year.

Bearing this mind, I honestly don't think having Calderon, who is a solid steady true PG who will distribute the rock well (unlike Bayless, who for all of his footspeed can't stay on the floor due to fouls/turnovers) on board next year is a bad thing at all. Unless I am mistaken, we signed him to his contract during the 08-09 season, which including this year has been 3 years. Next year will be the 4th year, and if we still have him on board for one more year he will be an expirer at 8.5M per.

While having salary cap is a nice thing, I strongly believe that last summer's events made everyone realize that having salary cap is potentially meaningless if you are not NY or LA or MIA.

I'm all for getting rid of Bargnani whenever as I'm tired of seeing him miss rotations and failing to box out his man, leading to easy layups or putbacks. Calderon however I don't mind keeping if we don't land the PG of our dreams in the upcoming draft.


I'm kind of hoping we can buy a pick.
It is looking less likely that we will get iriving because he won't be around at 5. So now I'm hoping we can draft a Centre (kanter?) with our first pick and get a second 1st rounder to draft Brandon Knight or Kemba walker.
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