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Old 03-20-2011, 02:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

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Originally Posted by LMFAO
hows that chip on your shoulder? Or did Grant Hill's manliness just knock it to the ground. BTW just because an educated man is black does not make him pretentious when he express himself out of the depths of his education. Would you call his response pretentious if he were white? I think not.

Yes, some of the language was just pretentious or more specifically unnecessary. As a black man who is fairly educated, I don't think I would hold a grudge against him.

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Old 03-20-2011, 02:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

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Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
there was obviously time spent reviewing and proofreading that article...Let's not pretend it was some spur of the moment retort.

Why does how much time spent writing the article matter. Hill was pissed off last week when he heard about this, and is still bothered by it. Is it somehow more excusable if he made some 2 sentence reply instead of gathering his thoughts and putting them to paper?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
See, but Rose didn't say that Hill was, in fact, an Uncle Tom, so the child molester thing doesn't really apply. Rose said that, in 1991, he viewed the black players on Duke as Uncle Toms. The statement was made to simply contrast the different cultures of the two programs and how that upstart Michigan team played with a chip on its shoulder.

When put in its proper context, it clearly wasn't a direct insult of Hill.

Here's the thing to you that Uncle Tom comment doesn't mean to much but think of how it feels to Hill. Not trying to pretend to have walked in the man's shoes, but I've been the black kid that some other kids thought differently of because I lived in the suburbs and talked proper. Being called an Uncle Tom hurts. Period.

Doesn't matter if your saying you thought it 20 years ago or yesterday, when you go on national TV and call a person an Uncle Tom expect them to be pissed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
And, yeah... Hill is well within his rights to defend himself if he feels that he was wronged in the documentary. And, I'm well within my rights to think that he went way overboard and allowed the media to manipulate him into releasing that statement.

And I still don't think Hill went at Rose as hard as some claim he did. Seems to me that comments, while directed at the situation, was not an atempt to insult or belittle Rose. Instead I see an attempt at defending the reputation of the Duke program he played for and Hill attacking the notion that when a black family is successful they are "Uncle Tom's."
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

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Originally Posted by 2LeTTeRS
Why does how much time spent writing the article matter. Hill was pissed off last week when he heard about this, and is still bothered by it. Is it somehow more excusable if he made some 2 sentence reply instead of gathering his thoughts and putting them to paper?


you acting like he did this without thinking....like an act of passion. Truth is he thought very hard about his retort and packaged it into a editorial fit for publication in the New York Times. If a week and a proofreading session isn't enough to gather you thoughts and put the situation in perspective than I don't know what is...

So yes, a two sentence reply made on twitter(done in the spur of the moment) would be held to a different standard by me then an editorial written for publication in the NYT...
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:49 AM   #19
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

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Originally Posted by jrong
Anyone who quotes Latin in an op-ed about this kind of subject matter is being pretentious. And, yes, I would call anyone out for it. In fact, if he were white, the word we use for a person like that is "douche".

Whether Hill realizes it or not, he played into the stereotype that the young Jalen Rose had of him....
A black man showing his education = pretentious.
Awhite man doing the same= douche.

Really....
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:02 AM   #20
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

I thought Rose's comments were more of an attack on the entire Duke University, and not as much on the players who went there. If Grant Hill got so defensive about it, there must be some truth to it.

So if the shoe fits, then wear it.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:12 AM   #21
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
I thought Rose's comments were more of an attack on the entire Duke University, and not as much on the players who went there. If Grant Hill got so defensive about it, there must be some truth to it.

So if the shoe fits, then wear it.
And, btw... It isn't about Duke being a great academic institution, so it is receiving baseless attacks of its minority students simply trying to better themselves instead of going to inferior universities...

Michigan is also an incredible academic institution, arguably on par with Duke (depending on field of study).

I know exactly what Jalen was referring to and I felt it, too, back in the early-90s. It doesn't exist around Duke quite as much today, but there was an aura that those guys let off that went way beyond the basketball court. Michigan, at the time, was the ying to Duke's yang. The Wolverines were the 'bad guys' and the 'thugs,' titles which I'm sure they resented, being that they were students of a great school.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:17 AM   #22
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

I just wish we could stop acting like the academic qualifications of a university, however good or bad, are reflected on the sports field/court. They clearly aren't, in the major 6 conferences and a few others anyway. Hell Stanford just got a black eye because word got out that they have a list of classes for athletes to take that're easy, and that doesn't even take into account professors sympathetic to athletes.

Yes, these kids get scholarships. No, not many take actual advantage of it.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:19 AM   #23
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

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Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
I just wish we could stop acting like the academic qualifications of a university, however good or bad, are reflected on the sports field/court. They clearly aren't, in the major 6 conferences and a few others anyway.
Meh, I don't think that is really fair. Maybe they don't matter for the absolute top, blue chip recruits that have their pick of any school in the nation and know that they are going to be turning pro, but for the average guys on the team? I do think that the university qualifications come into play for a lot of those guys.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:22 AM   #24
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
And, btw... It isn't about Duke being a great academic institution, so it is receiving baseless attacks of its minority students simply trying to better themselves instead of going to inferior universities...

Michigan is also an incredible academic institution, arguably on par with Duke (depending on field of study).

I know exactly what Jalen was referring to and I felt it, too, back in the early-90s. It doesn't exist around Duke quite as much today, but there was an aura that those guys let off that went way beyond the basketball court. Michigan, at the time, was the ying to Duke's yang. The Wolverines were the 'bad guys' and the 'thugs,' titles which I'm sure they resented, being that they were students of a great school.

Duke has every right to recruit the type of player they want. No one is stopping them. However the stereotype exists because of the perception that they have created. It is what it is, and if people want to take it as something negative, then that is their prerogative. But at the same time, they should try to hide from it either, and act like Duke recruits players from all backgrounds, because they don't. They recruit "their" type of player, and that is all. If you fit their bill, you can go there.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:25 AM   #25
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Meh, I don't think that is really fair. Maybe they don't matter for the absolute top, blue chip recruits that have their pick of any school in the nation and know that they are going to be turning pro, but for the average guys on the team? I do think that the university qualifications come into play for a lot of those guys.

Looking at the numbers I have seen they don't matter much. Going by anecdotal evidence they don't matter at all.

Duke's BBall team average GPA was 3.1 and average SAT 968. That is no where near their normal admission criteria. And one or two kids couldnt bring down the team numbers that far.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:26 AM   #26
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Meh, I don't think that is really fair. Maybe they don't matter for the absolute top, blue chip recruits that have their pick of any school in the nation and know that they are going to be turning pro, but for the average guys on the team? I do think that the university qualifications come into play for a lot of those guys.
The "average guys" are walkons paying their own way, exemplifying the definition of "scholar-athlete." I love E'Twuan Moore, he's a bright kid, Academic AA, but he's majoring in "organizational leadership," which is notorious at Purdue as an athlete major. There's stuff like that going on at every school.

I've just grown completely against the modern system of "amateur basketball." These kids deserve to get paid. I know it'll never happen but in a perfect world revenue sports would be eliminated and a legitimate minor league would be implemented.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:29 AM   #27
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

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Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
Looking at the numbers I have seen they don't matter much. Going by anecdotal evidence they don't matter at all.

Duke's BBall team average GPA was 3.1 and average SAT 968. That is no where near their normal admission criteria. And one or two kids couldnt bring down the team numbers that far.

These are really high numbers if you compared to most other schools. Derrick Rose didn't even take the SAT, did he?
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:30 AM   #28
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
These are really high numbers if you compared to most other schools. Derrick Rose didn't even take the SAT, did he?

I'm not comparing to other schools. If you look at what I'm replying to you will see what I'm comparing it two.

Regardless, you question is irrelevant.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:33 AM   #29
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
Looking at the numbers I have seen they don't matter much. Going by anecdotal evidence they don't matter at all.

Duke's BBall team average GPA was 3.1 and average SAT 968. That is no where near their normal admission criteria. And one or two kids couldnt bring down the team numbers that far.
Interesting. I will say that basketball, as opposed to the two other major sports, have many, many less athletic scholarships to offer and a much, much smaller roster, so a few bad test scores/GPAs really can have a major impact on the median.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
The "average guys" are walkons paying their own way, exemplifying the definition of "scholar-athlete." I love E'Twuan Moore, he's a bright kid, Academic AA, but he's majoring in "organizational leadership," which is notorious at Purdue as an athlete major. There's stuff like that going on at every school.

I've just grown completely against the modern system of "amateur basketball." These kids deserve to get paid. I know it'll never happen but in a perfect world revenue sports would be eliminated and a legitimate minor league would be implemented.

Totally agree. First, I think that they should do away with the one-and-done strategy and allow guys to jump straight from high school. If the NBA needs a buffer league so teams don't spend millions on a guy who only dominated high school, then maybe they should create a mandatory season in the NBADL before guys can officially join the NBA, but academic institutions should not be used in such a way.

I am also good with kids getting a stipend for playing a sport. It is damn hard to go to school, play a sport and then be expected to get a part-time job to have money to live.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:37 AM   #30
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Default Re: Anyone else think Jalen Rose planned this?

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Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
I'm not comparing to other schools. If you look at what I'm replying to you will see what I'm comparing it two.

Regardless, you question is irrelevant.

I know you are comparing their basketball admission criteria to their normal admission criteria, which much higher. What I am saying is that their basketball admission criteria is much higher than just about every other school in the country.

My reason for the Rose reference was to show that some schools accept players who have shown almost zero academic qualifications for being at school. It wasn't necessarily a knock towards him. Memphis isn't the first school to do something like that, nor will it be the last.
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