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Old 03-19-2011, 06:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

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Originally Posted by che guevara
Lebron is also a better midrange shooter by quite a bit, and is a better finisher. Wade also isn't more clutch, every bit of evidence says that Lebron has been better (and significantly so) since 2008.

James has never had a better mid range jumpshot that dwyane wade. Better finsher?..they are equally as a good a finisher in factyou can make the case for wade being better who do you know makes more circus shots than wade?.



What evidence do you have for LeBron being clutch?......lemme guess clutch rating right?
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

Best player doesn't mean their game is without any flaws. Shaq couldn't hit FTs. Kobe's shot selection is suspect. Wade's J isn't any better than Lebrons. Melo doesn't play D. Durant seems like a scorer and not much else. He may be considered the best, but until he gets a complete game by getting a post game and fixing his shooting form, he'll never be GOAT status. Jordan is GOAT b/c he was complete in every part of the game.

I think a better term would be "most productive". Yeah, it insinuates stats, but that's what he is. He consistently puts up pretty much the most insane stats since Jordan (better in some ways). His athleticism combined with his skill make him the most productive player in the game.
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:40 PM   #18
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

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Originally Posted by pmj
Best player doesn't mean their game is without any flaws. Shaq couldn't hit FTs. Kobe's shot selection is suspect. Wade's J isn't any better than Lebrons. Melo doesn't play D. Durant seems like a scorer and not much else. He may be considered the best, but until he gets a complete game by getting a post game and fixing his shooting form, he'll never be GOAT status. Jordan is GOAT b/c he was complete in every part of the game.

I think a better term would be "most productive". Yeah, it insinuates stats, but that's what he is. He consistently puts up pretty much the most insane stats since Jordan (better in some ways). His athleticism combined with his skill make him the most productive player in the game.


His "productivity" comes at the expense of the productivity of other players. He'ss a chemistry killer. this game has never been about stuffing stat sheets. It's about playing to win. I just dont get that from LeBron. I love players that care less about numbers. Do you think kobe cares about how amny assists or Rebs he grabs?...he Plays to win if his team play calls up him to grab a big baord then he will but other than that he will let his big do their Job. I;m sick of seeing James clearing boards when he has two big men there that can be doing that. He always seems to be playing for numbers. He wants to do everything instead of letting other players be productive
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

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Originally Posted by Christofire
James has never had a better mid range jumpshot that dwyane wade. Better finsher?..they are equally as a good a finisher in factyou can make the case for wade being better who do you know makes more circus shots than wade?.



What evidence do you have for LeBron being clutch?......lemme guess clutch rating right?
LeBron is shooting over 42% from midrange this year, while Wade is at 38%, and his career high is 42% (back in 2009). I'd say that gives the advantage to LeBron.

LeBron is also a better finisher, making 71% of his shots at the rim, while Wade makes 65% of those shots. In fact, LeBron shoots better from everywhere on the floor compared to Wade (at the rim, 10-15 ft, 15-23 ft, and 3 point shooting) except for the 3-9 ft range.

(feel free to double check any stats in hoopdata.com)

LeBron is also a better passer, has better court vision, shoots free throws better, and a better overall and defensive rebounder, while Wade is a better offensive rebounder. I'd say they're equal defensively overall, because while Wade gives you better individual defense, LeBron is all over the floor sometimes and has an advantage in team defense.

LeBron has been incredibly clutch in years past (more so than Wade) but they've both stunk it up this year. If you've watch LeBron before you'd know why he's considered so clutch. He always led the Cavaliers in the 4th, scoring at will, and allowing his teammates easy shots by collapsing the defense on himself. That's why the Cavaliers had so many 4th quarter comebacks, and why he led the league in 4th quarter scoring despite the Cavaliers being involved in so many blowouts where he'd either play very few minutes in the 4th, or not at all.

Add all that to the fact that LeBron has the size, strength, and vertical leap advantage, and you get why LeBron is considered better.
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christofire
James has never had a better mid range jumpshot that dwyane wade. Better finsher?..they are equally as a good a finisher in factyou can make the case for wade being better who do you know makes more circus shots than wade?.



What evidence do you have for LeBron being clutch?......lemme guess clutch rating right?
Lebron is a better midrange shooter, at least this year. This season Lebron's shooting 43% from 16-23 feet, 44% from 10-15 feet. Wade is shooting 38% from 16-23, 39% from 10-15. Lebron also finishes at a better percentage at the rim, I don't care who makes more circus shots.

http://www.hoopdata.com/splits.aspx?...LeBron%20James

http://www.hoopdata.com/splits.aspx?...=Dwyane%20Wade

And yeah, how bad of me to look at what they actually do in crunch time instead of just looking at their reputation.

Last edited by che guevara : 03-19-2011 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:49 PM   #21
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christofire
His "productivity" comes at the expense of the productivity of other players. He'ss a chemistry killer. this game has never been about stuffing stat sheets. It's about playing to win. I just dont get that from LeBron. I love players that care less about numbers. Do you think kobe cares about how amny assists or Rebs he grabs?...he Plays to win if his team play calls up him to grab a big baord then he will but other than that he will let his big do their Job. I;m sick of seeing James clearing boards when he has two big men there that can be doing that. He always seems to be playing for numbers. He wants to do everything instead of letting other players be productive

I definitely think another aspect of his game he needs work on is playing within a system, not dribbling the ball for 50% of the shot clock, moving without the ball, setting up teammates first, etc. He lacks fundamentals he probably would have learned in college. Maybe Kobe learned that b/c he was drafted to a playoff team and he wasn't the man from the get-go, who knows.

The Heat are trying to break that. The coach has openly spoke about less "hero-ball" and more trust in teammates. I'm a Heat fan, but even objectively I would say I hope he breaks those bad habits and plays what he CAN do best, which is use his insane athleticism and skill to be a team player and facilitator, and not try to be the main scorer or prove he can do it on his own, so young players see, no matter how talented you are, it's a team game and you need to play as a team to win.
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

lebron is the 2nd best player in teh league, the reason he's better than wade is because he can essentially force the ball into the basket, when he puts his head down and drives no one is stopping him, he'll either score or get fouled for free throws, can't be said about wade
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

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Originally Posted by Dave3
LeBron is shooting over 42% from midrange this year, while Wade is at 38%, and his career high is 42% (back in 2009). I'd say that gives the advantage to LeBron.

LeBron is also a better finisher, making 71% of his shots at the rim, while Wade makes 65% of those shots. In fact, LeBron shoots better from everywhere on the floor compared to Wade (at the rim, 10-15 ft, 15-23 ft, and 3 point shooting) except for the 3-9 ft range.

(feel free to double check any stats in hoopdata.com)

LeBron is also a better passer, has better court vision, shoots free throws better, and a better overall and defensive rebounder, while Wade is a better offensive rebounder. I'd say they're equal defensively overall, because while Wade gives you better individual defense, LeBron is all over the floor sometimes and has an advantage in team defense.




LeBron has been incredibly clutch in years past (more so than Wade) but they've both stunk it up this year. If you've watch LeBron before you'd know why he's considered so clutch. He always led the Cavaliers in the 4th, scoring at will, and allowing his teammates easy shots by collapsing the defense on himself. That's why the Cavaliers had so many 4th quarter comebacks, and why he led the league in 4th quarter scoring despite the Cavaliers being involved in so many blowouts where he'd either play very few minutes in the 4th, or not at all.

Add all that to the fact that LeBron has the size, strength, and vertical leap advantage, and you get why LeBron is considered better.


thes stats are useless because wade takes a higher volume of mid range jumpers than LeBron James does. moer shots generally means more misses as well. Watch them play you'd clearly see that wade is a better mid range jump shooter than LeBron. Stat geeks need lives
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christofire
thes stats are useless because wade takes a higher volume of mid range jumpers than LeBron James does. moer shots generally means more misses as well. Watch them play you'd clearly see that wade is a better mid range jump shooter than LeBron. Stat geeks need lives
You should check before actually talking. LeBron takes 5.5 midrange jumpers/game while Wade only is taking 3.4 this year, and attempts more 3's a game...
And stop using "watch the games" as your rebuttal. I watch almost every Miami game, but I can't make an argument based on that. What am I going to say? "LeBron is a better shooter because that's what I see and you should believe me"? If I can't back it up, my argument is useless. I watch the Heat and I see it's clear that LeBron is a better shooter than Wade this year, and am referring to the stats to back up my claims.
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:54 PM   #25
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

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Originally Posted by KB2clutch
lebron is the 2nd best player in teh league, the reason he's better than wade is because he can essentially force the ball into the basket, when he puts his head down and drives no one is stopping him, he'll either score or get fouled for free throws, can't be said about wade

that would explain why dwyane wade attemps more freethrows
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:57 PM   #26
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

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Originally Posted by pmj
I definitely think another aspect of his game he needs work on is playing within a system, not dribbling the ball for 50% of the shot clock, moving without the ball, setting up teammates first, etc. He lacks fundamentals he probably would have learned in college. Maybe Kobe learned that b/c he was drafted to a playoff team and he wasn't the man from the get-go, who knows.

The Heat are trying to break that. The coach has openly spoke about less "hero-ball" and more trust in teammates. I'm a Heat fan, but even objectively I would say I hope he breaks those bad habits and plays what he CAN do best, which is use his insane athleticism and skill to be a team player and facilitator, and not try to be the main scorer or prove he can do it on his own, so young players see, no matter how talented you are, it's a team game and you need to play as a team to win.


He's a big time offense stagnator. Very indecisive with the ball and the lack of fundamentals is a key reason why he dribbles off so much of the clock. All he tries to do is get the defender to commit so he can get the only move he has(first step and pushoff) and head to the rim.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:03 PM   #27
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

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Originally Posted by Dave3
You should check before actually talking. LeBron takes 5.5 midrange jumpers/game while Wade only is taking 3.4 this year, and attempts more 3's a game...
And stop using "watch the games" as your rebuttal. I watch almost every Miami game, but I can't make an argument based on that. What am I going to say? "LeBron is a better shooter because that's what I see and you should believe me"? If I can't back it up, my argument is useless. I watch the Heat and I see it's clear that LeBron is a better shooter than Wade this year, and am referring to the stats to back up my claims.


you would know that i was referring to wade's game in general?....i never said this season did I?.....I mean throught wade's career he's been taking a higher volume of mid range jumpers than leBron james. I knw that wade has taken less Jumpers than leBron this season. He's the league leader in points in the paint for guards( i think) and leading the team in points in the paint. Wade has been primarily a slahser this year due to the extra space he's had to work with. Maybe you should find out what i'm referring to before asserting what you think i'm referring too. Wade is my favorite player. I've missed abotu 10 heat games in total this year. So i know that james is hitting a higher percent of jumper this year and taking more. Despite not being a fan of stats i do know tham very well and i do look at them often.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:03 PM   #28
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christofire
thes stats are useless because wade takes a higher volume of mid range jumpers than LeBron James does. moer shots generally means more misses as well. Watch them play you'd clearly see that wade is a better mid range jump shooter than LeBron. Stat geeks need lives
Lebron takes 5.5 from 16-23 and 1.6 from 10-15. Wade takes 3.8 from 16-23 feet and 1.7 from 10-15. So no, you're completely wrong.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:05 PM   #29
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

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Originally Posted by che guevara
Lebron takes 5.5 from 16-23 and 1.6 from 10-15. Wade takes 3.8 from 16-23 feet and 1.7 from 10-15. So no, you're completely wrong.

despite percentages when forced to take Jumpers Wade is more reliable than LeBron especially in the playoffs.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:08 PM   #30
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Default Re: The leBron James mystique

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Originally Posted by Christofire
despite percentages when forced to take Jumpers Wade is more reliable than LeBron especially in the playoffs.
And now your argument is based on conjecture rather than anything evidence based.
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