The leBron James mystique

[Dave3]

Originally Posted by Christofire

you would know that i was referring to wade's game in general?....i never said this season did I?.....I mean throught wade's career he's been taking a higher volume of mid range jumpers than leBron james. I knw that wade has taken less Jumpers than leBron this season. He's the league leader in points in the paint for guards( i think) and leading the team in points in the paint. Wade has been primarily a slahser this year due to the extra space he's had to work with. Maybe you should find out what i'm referring to before asserting what you think i'm referring too. Wade is my favorite player. I've missed abotu 10 heat games in total this year. So i know that james is hitting a higher percent of jumper this year and taking more. Despite not being a fan of stats i do know tham very well and i do look at them often.

LeBron also took just as many midrangers as Wade last year. 2009 was the only year where Wade took a larger amount of midrange shots, and that year he was a better shooter than LeBron. All other years he's shot below 40% from midrange, while LeBron has been at that or above the last 3 years. LeBron is overall a better midrange shooter over the majority of their respective years in the league, as well as a better 3 point shooter and finisher (lol at you using circus shots to justify Wade being a better finisher than LeBron). Wade has the advantage in between midrange and under the rim, in the post area (which you've already said). Outside of that, my original post still remains, with all of those arguments applying. And btw, you can't ask "what evidence do you have?" then dismiss stats saying someone is a stat geek for using them.

[winwin]

Being better than everyone else... is more than just physical abilities

never was never will be

[game385]

Despite being a "Miami Hater", even I have to admit that LeBron is still the best player in the game and has been for at least 2 or 3 seasons now. His athleticism and size gives him the advantaged over similar skilled players like Wade and Kobe.

[tpols]

Originally Posted by Dave3

LeBron also took just as many midrangers as Wade last year. 2009 was the only year where Wade took a larger amount of midrange shots, and that year he was a better shooter than LeBron. All other years he's shot below 40% from midrange, while LeBron has been at that or above the last 3 years. LeBron is overall a better midrange shooter over the majority of their respective years in the league, as well as a better 3 point shooter and finisher (lol at you using circus shots to justify Wade being a better finisher than LeBron). Wade has the advantage in between midrange and under the rim, in the post area (which you've already said). Outside of that, my original post still remains, with all of those arguments applying. And btw, you can't ask "what evidence do you have?" then dismiss stats saying someone is a stat geek for using them.

But what do you mean when talking about midrange?

Lebron's 'midrange' game is basically dribble for a while until the defender backs off and shoot a pull up J from the stand still position. He never catches and shoots from midrange. He isn't as good at pulling up off the dribble and shooting as wade(when driving). He isn't as good at fade aways as wade. He isn't as good at working out of the post and shooting midrange shots as wade.. He simply isn't as good a midrange player as wade. I'll take wade all day for that.

[knightfall88]

Lebron has always been said to be the better player out of Melo or Wade despite ANYTHING they other two have done. Wade winning a chip in 06. Melo leading his team to the WCF and giving the Lakers a run of their money in 09 or Melo having a very good rookie season (better than Lebron to some) The reason is because Lebron has always had hype on his side.

[Indian guy]

Originally Posted by tpols

But what do you mean when talking about midrange?

We are talking about mid-range jump shooting, something which LeBron does significantly better than Wade this season.

He never catches and shoots from midrange.

He does it a quite bit now. For instance, he's already come off screens and shot a mid-range jumper 3 times today. Even more if we're talking long range.

He isn't as good at pulling up off the dribble and shooting as wade(when driving).

Not really true anymore.

He isn't as good at fade aways as wade.

Huh?

He isn't as good at working out of the post and shooting midrange shots as wade..

This I'll agree with.

He simply isn't as good a midrange player as wade.

This isn't 2008. Wake up.

[Dave3]

Originally Posted by Indian guy

We are talking about mid-range jump shooting, something which LeBron does significantly better than Wade this season.



He does it a quite bit now. For instance, he's already come off screens and shot a mid-range jumper 3 times today. Even more if we're talking long range.



Not really true anymore.



Huh?

He isn't as good at working out of the post and shooting midrange shots as wade..

This I'll agree with.



This isn't 2008. Wake up.

This would pretty much be my response at first glance, just because I'm watching the game now, so lazy to answer atm.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Originally Posted by Christofire

What is it that makes James better than everyone else?....


I'm always perplexed by this. People consider James to be the best player in the league but can never really explain why in terms of basketball skill.

He's atheletic, and is a very good passer. His athleticism allows him to do what he does on offense. Can his obvious aadvantage in athleticism be the sole reason he's considered the best player in the league.


James trumps wade in athleticism, passing(not by a large margin) and 3pt shooting. But wade has better fundamentals, better post up, better handle better midrange game, better defender(steals, blocks and on ball) and is more clutch(in games that matter). they are equally as good at finishing at the rim and getting to the line(some may give wade the edge in getting to the line). Wade is better at weaving through traffic to get to the rim. Rebounding is even.


Yet people will still say that james is better than Wade. Please explain to me what is the mystique that surrounds LeBron James that despite wade being a more skilled player that you'd still considered James to be a better player?

Not me pal. That guy quits on a yearly basis.

[FindingTim]

it's a testament to Wade that we are even having this discussion despite Lebron's clear superiority in athleticism and size.

honestly, Lebron James is a dictionary definition of how stats don't always translate to overall productivity.
All the great champions have an indescribable "it" factor and the ability to play great team ball in harmony with their incredible individual talent (think Magic, Duncan, Bird etc.). Wade has it, Rose has it, I think John Wall has it.

Lebron could average a triple double, but if he wins a championship it will be in spite of his deficiency's.

It's almost like Lebron is a super-computer. The super-computer might have an elite processor and infinite technical capabilities, but no matter what it does, it will never be a human. (Wade is the human)

[Harion]

he has a football player's body with a basketball player's mind. he has skills of a PG but has the body of a bruiser PF. when you see him on games where he dominates, you simply cannot deny he is the best player in the league. if James has one weakness, it is that he has a weak mental game. when he is troubled, bothered by something off-court or on court, it will affect his game. he loses his power to dominate and he just kind of plays weak.

[jlip]

This claim that Lebron's "ball domination" leads to a stagnate offense has no merit whatsoever, especially not this season. This season the Heat's offensive rating of 110.9 is the best in franchise history. The 101.5ppg that they are averaging this season is tied with '05 for the most since 1995. They are playing at a pace of 91.0 which (other than 2006) is the fastest since 1996.

Their 91.0 pace is 19th in the league but they yet are 9th in ppg. They are overall the 5th best offensive team in the league. They haven't been that high in years.

Also, I consider Wade easily a top 3 player in the game, and on any given night he can be the best player on the floor, but his "clutch/ closer reputation" is living way too much off something he did nearly half a decade ago. Yes his '06 Finals was epic and legendary. No one can discount that. But what has he done since then? Since the '06 Finals (not counting this season obviously) he has not been out of the 1st round once, actually has a losing record in the games that he's played in, hasn't to my knowledge led the league in fourth quarter scoring (even in the season he won the scoring title), and other than a few game winners here and there has done very little to warrant this "uber clutch/ closer" label.

[Theoo]

i watch almost the all heat game. wade cannot not make a jumpershot this season he put a jumpshot it dont make all season but last game he have been making some jumpshot. wade very inconsistent when a big game he is dissapeered he do not have ethat much as lebron. lebron verry consistent he try in all the big game not dissapered he have some bad games but wade have many game he disapeer. wade = better post. better slash. but oft he cant finish to the rim he get to the rim but miss the shot and dont makerd the dunk. lebron: beter jumpshot more consistant finish the shots not as clutch last games but better. if dwade make more jumpshot and more consistant and in the big games playoff can play very good the are very simlar player :)

[Indian guy]

Originally Posted by jlip

This claim that Lebron's "ball domination" leads to a stagnate offense has no merit whatsoever, especially not this season.

This is the 3rd straight season LeBron's team will finish Top 5 on offense. Of all the things he's done, this is the greatest accomplishment of his career. Playing with Mike Brown and Eric Spoelstra(who are as clueless as they come offensively) and the garbage rosters of Cleveland, yet somehow still leading ELITE offenses.

[Simple Jack]

Because what you CAN do matters A LOT less than what you ACTUALLY do.

LeBron, despite not being the most skilled player in the league, has a bigger impact on the game than Wade or any other player in the league. Whether its his athleticism or not doesn't matter; the fact is, he impacts the game more than any other player in the game today and on a more regular basis.

[pauk]

WHERE THE **** DO YOU GET THIS SHIT FROM ANYWAYS???? ITS ALL WRONG..... STICK TO FACTS....

Originally Posted by Christofire

James trumps wade in athleticism

yes...

passing(not by a large margin)

actually by a large margin... especially when lebron plays PG... last season alone he averaged 12.1 APG while starting PG for Cavs (10-15 games)..... still ended up with 9 apg and 30 ppg...... to compare that to wade he has played PG alot to and he didnt average even close to that many assists and is much worse in assist to turnover ratio...... wade averages more turnovers per say...

its not just about assists........ watch them play and compare yourself... you will see the amazing court vision and passing ability difference........ lebron with nash easily possess the best court vision and passing ability.... he puts the ball on the money and threads the needle like nobody else besides those two players

and 3pt shooting.

yep AND Freethrow shooting lately...

and rebounding

But wade has better fundamentals,

NOPE

better post up,

nah.... lebron just doesnt use it as much...

better handle

debatable....

better midrange game

NOPE... wade is definitely not a better shooter than lebron from ANYWHERE on the floor...

all wade does is drives and hopes for whistles....

thats the only thing wade is better than lebron at... drawing FOULS....

better defender(steals, blocks and on ball)

NOPE.... there is a reason wade is not 1st team all nba defender over Kobe or Lebron.... and there is a reason he averages more steals or blocks..... ITS BECAUSE HE GAMBLES ALOT AND DOESNT PLAY SMART DEFENSE ALL THE TIME.....

defensively lebron is also much more versatile.... can guard anybody from a PG to a PF and even some Centers efficiently.... can wade do that to?? nope...

lebron is much better defensive anchor - leader aswell... much more vocal...

and is more clutch(in games that matter).

NOPE........ seriously where do you get this shit from?

in 7 years playing together lebron has made more clutch shots.. gamewinners in a higher percentage....

take a look: http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

lebron has ALWAYS been #1 or #2 (lebron & kobe and wade is not even close) in CLUTCH STATS.........

clutch stats this season: http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

clutch stats last season: http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

clutch stats 2008: http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

clutch stats 2007: http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

they are equally as good at finishing at the rim and getting to the line(some may give wade the edge in getting to the line). Wade is better at weaving through traffic to get to the rim.

probably...

Rebounding is even.

absolutely not.... lebron is a much better rebounder... he gets more rebounds... dont give me that he is bigger and taller shit.... Dwight is bigger than both of them.... should we discredit his rebounding total just because he is bigger and taller..???? thats stupid.......... lebron gets more rebounds... he is a better rebounder......... VERY SIMPLE... GET OVER IT....

Yet people will still say that james is better than Wade. Please explain to me what is the mystique that surrounds LeBron James that despite wade being a more skilled player that you'd still considered James to be a better player?

i just explained and CORRECTED your stupid statements above with FACTS......

now maybe you can stfu....

some more things... lebron is the most productive SEASON & PLAYOFF performer in NBA history alongside MICHAEL JORDAN..........

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...er_career.html

CONSIDER ALSO THAT LEBRON IS THE MOST VERSATILE PLAYER IN THE NBA (HE DOMINATES 4 POSITIONS) AND THAT HE TRUMPS WADE IN THE PLAYOFFS.......

now i hope you can appologise and forget this thread....

/THREAD