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Old 03-22-2011, 07:11 PM   #1
lilbeastnani
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Default James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

So pretty much this thread is about James Johnson and our trading the presumed 25 pick for him. Anyone could go at 25, but i'm just looking at the mock drafts for who they have penciled at that spot.

James Johnson (who we got)
William Buford *SG (nbadraft.net)
Travis Leslie *SF (draftexpress)
Markieff Morris *PF (mynbadraft.com)
Kemba Walker *PG (CBS)

So, James Johnson. A lot of you are high on his horse, but not seeing a lot to be excited about. This is his 3rd year in the league and with increased PT he's shown himself to be a half decent reserve quality player but nobody who should be getting more than 10 mins/game or so. There's a reason Chicago didn't want him.

Now for the comarisons

William Buford: Explosive scorer. He can create his own shot off the dribble. Somewhat of a streaky scorer but he can really light it up when he's on. He's also a good rebounder for his size and a decent passer. Major issues probably being defense, but from an offensive standpoint the guy is fundamentally sound.

Travis Leslie: The dude has ridiculous athleticism. Need proof of that? Ask Demarcus Cousins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvblnXCONLA Very strong and very athletic, kind of undersized at the 2, but cut in the mold of a Dwayne Wade. He's a great rebounder for his size and people have said he has a good work ethic. His areas of need being to improve his perimeter shooting and defense.

Markieff Morris: Very efficient scorer, good around the basket, solid defender. However, as we all know, another PF is the last thing we need so no skin off our back there.

Kemba Walker: This dude is pretty much the man right now. Very efficient scorer (both 2 and 3 pointers), he can create his own shot, great speed and ball handling ability, good playmaking ability and courtvision. Only problem MAY be his defense, but that really has yet to be seen.


Anyways those are just a few of the prospects of late first round picks. I'd take Leslie, Buford, and Walker over James Johnson and there's probably several others i'd take over him too. I think it was a quick fix move and it wasn't given enough thought.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
So pretty much this thread is about James Johnson and our trading the presumed 25 pick for him. Anyone could go at 25, but i'm just looking at the mock drafts for who they have penciled at that spot.

James Johnson (who we got)
William Buford *SG (nbadraft.net)
Travis Leslie *SF (draftexpress)
Markieff Morris *PF (mynbadraft.com)
Kemba Walker *PG (CBS)

So, James Johnson. A lot of you are high on his horse, but not seeing a lot to be excited about. This is his 3rd year in the league and with increased PT he's shown himself to be a half decent reserve quality player but nobody who should be getting more than 10 mins/game or so. There's a reason Chicago didn't want him.

Now for the comarisons

William Buford: Explosive scorer. He can create his own shot off the dribble. Somewhat of a streaky scorer but he can really light it up when he's on. He's also a good rebounder for his size and a decent passer. Major issues probably being defense, but from an offensive standpoint the guy is fundamentally sound.

Travis Leslie: The dude has ridiculous athleticism. Need proof of that? Ask Demarcus Cousins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvblnXCONLA Very strong and very athletic, kind of undersized at the 2, but cut in the mold of a Dwayne Wade. He's a great rebounder for his size and people have said he has a good work ethic. His areas of need being to improve his perimeter shooting and defense.

Markieff Morris: Very efficient scorer, good around the basket, solid defender. However, as we all know, another PF is the last thing we need so no skin off our back there.

Kemba Walker: This dude is pretty much the man right now. Very efficient scorer (both 2 and 3 pointers), he can create his own shot, great speed and ball handling ability, good playmaking ability and courtvision. Only problem MAY be his defense, but that really has yet to be seen.


Anyways those are just a few of the prospects of late first round picks. I'd take Leslie, Buford, and Walker over James Johnson and there's probably several others i'd take over him too. I think it was a quick fix move and it wasn't given enough thought.

A 25 pick doesn't amount to much especially in this league. A late round pick usually turns out to be a decent role player at best and it looks like James Johnson isn't doing a bad job filling the void. Its not like late round picks are turned into allstars that play 30+ mins a game. If they turn out to be a bust, which is very likely, then its even worse given guaranteed salary.

The thing the Raps should be worried about is the top 5 which looks to be like Jones, Kanter, Irving, Barnes, Sullinger, Williams, maybe even Valanciunas. Also hope that none of those guys stay back in college for another year.

Last edited by kmart : 03-22-2011 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

James Johnson won't amount to much of anything either. So it wouldn't have been some huge risk to take on a late first rounder, and who knows what they would turn out to be. You don't think any of the players I listed are at minimum as good as JJ and probably better?
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
James Johnson won't amount to much of anything either. So it wouldn't have been some huge risk to take on a late first rounder, and who knows what they would turn out to be. You don't think any of the players I listed are at minimum as good as JJ and probably better?

Walker I'd say is better, but hes going higher than 20th IMO. Your mock draft is probably out of date.

Taking JJ from Chicago wasn't a huge risk either. If hes not good the contract will expire and if he is good then keep him. A late first rounder doesn't mean much either way.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Getting Kemba Walker at 25 would be amazing. I don't think he's gonna be an All-Star or anything, but he should have a long and successful career.

Everyone else you listed? Morris could be better, but like you said, theres no real need for him. Leslie and Buford I think, best case scenario, will be just as good as James Johnson.

I wouldn't have been against keeping the first rounder, in fact I didn't like the trade when it was announced, but I don't think there is going to be a huge difference between what we have (Johnson) and what we could potentially have.
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Walker is a top 10 pick.
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reef
Walker is a top 10 pick.

+1

That CBS mock draft must be really out of date cause he is tearing it up. He reminds me of Ben Gordon with a better bball IQ.
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
+1

That CBS mock draft must be really out of date cause he is tearing it up. He reminds me of Ben Gordon with a better bball IQ.

Ya me too, or even a more scoring-focused Ty Lawson.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

It's real easy to put up scouting reports on guys who aren't in the league yet and say they could be better than Johnson. Let's compare what you've given us about those potential drafts picks mocked in his spot with James johnson's scouting profile prior to his draft:

Quote:
Strengths: Very athletic, strong & tough - practiced martial arts his whole life. Versatile - can play multiple positions. Able to take his man off the dribble. Can hit the face-up jumper. Able to absorb contact and still score. Good wingspan. Very good size for the NBA. Explosive leaper. Good shot blocker. Gets plenty of steals.

Quote:
As a sophomore at Wake Forest, Johnson averaged 15.0 points, 8.5 rebounds and 1.5 blocks per game as the Demon Deacons went 24-7. He became the third player in Wake Forest history to leave early for the NBA, joining Rodney Rogers in 1993 and Chris Paul in 2005. A versatile forward with strong ballhandling and passing abilities, Johnson is projected to be a late lottery to mid-first round pick.

Quote:
Johnson’s ability to face-up and attack his man off the dribble makes him a terrific mismatch threat on the perimeter, and watching him utilize his outstanding footwork and pivot moves in the post, it’s hard not to come away impressed with his scoring and overall basketball instincts. He has great hands and outstanding touch with either hand around the basket, sometimes flicking up pretty floaters around the rim, and looks very comfortable at times operating with his back to the basket as well.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...#ixzz1HO74r9vn
http://www.draftexpress.com


Sounds pretty similar to what you posted about those college guys, doesn't it?

Here's the plain fact: Guys you get in the late first round are never going to be sure things, no matter what the scouting report says. If they were sure things, they wouldn't be drafted 25th. While I initially 'd this trade, I think now I prefer getting a guy who might be a project who you've seen play in the NBA is better than taking a chance on a guy who could be a complete flop.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Where do you see any scouting report that i've posted? Just because you're encyclopedia britannica and get everything you post on this forum from articles doesn't mean everyone else here does. I've actually watched each of those players i've posted and came up with my own stuff on them if you couldn't tell.

edit: and this is the NBA draft we're talking about here buddy. There are very few "sure things."

Last edited by lilbeastnani : 03-22-2011 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
It's real easy to put up scouting reports on guys who aren't in the league yet and say they could be better than Johnson. Let's compare what you've given us about those potential drafts picks mocked in his spot with James johnson's scouting profile prior to his draft:
We can do something even better. We can compare Johnson to the 10 previous players selected as 25th picks.
2010: Dominique Jones
2009: Rodrigue Beaubois
2008: Nicolas Batum
2007: Morris Almond
2006: Shannon Brown
2005: Johan Petro
2004: Tony Allen
2003: Carlos Delfino
2002: Frank Williams
2001: Gerald Wallace (all-star)

So, please, I don't want to search the forum... who were the people that said that you can't get something relevant with a late first round pick?
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

^^ You can also highlight Shannon Brown on that list. And it's so true, people are so quick to dismiss the fact that not every late first rounder is a throw away pick. They would rather just see someone average to below average that they can get immediately (such as JJ) in there to fill that spot rather than to take a minimal risk on a younger guy with potential.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

You're right FC, there is definitely talent available in the late first round, and sometimes even in the second.

Like I said, I was against this trade at the time, and now I just kind of don't care either way. But, James Johnson is only in his 2nd pro year, so we should wait and see if he can accomplish some of the same things guys like Delfino, Brown, Allen and Batum have.

Keep in mind it took Gerald Wallace 4 years to get off the bench, and 5 to become a real positive factor on a team. I don't expect any of the players mentioned in the OP or in your post to become Wallace-like players, but just saying you need to look at both ends of the spectrum.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:52 PM   #14
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

^^ They don't have to become Gerald Wallace to be successful as a 25th pick.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Didn't say they had to. I'm just saying it took a very good player like Wallace 4-5 years to establish himself in the league, so there is no point hating on Johnson who's only in his second.

I was more or less saying Johnson should be given the same amount of time as Delfino/Allen to establish himself.

I'm not on either side of the argument here, because I see the positives to both scenarios. Just trying to be highlight both sides.
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