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Old 03-23-2011, 06:02 PM   #16
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

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Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
^^ They don't have to become Gerald Wallace to be successful as a 25th pick.

You missed the point entirely. Even someone as successful as Gerald Wallace wasn't an impact player in his second year which Johnson is still in.

As for your rebut of RainingThrees that the scouting report you gave were yours and not from a publication, way to make them even less credible a projection of what the players will become.

Seriously guys, this is an irrelevant trade that deserves a giant "meh" and no further discussion until 4 years down the line when we know what each party has.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

It's not hating on James Johnson to say he was the easy choice rather than to grab a guy through the draft and take a low risk high reward move. What's the worst that could've happened, we draft a guy, pay him 1 million/year over the next 2 seasons and he doesn't turn into Michael Jordan?
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

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Seriously guys, this is an irrelevant trade that deserves a giant "meh" and no further discussion until 4 years down the line when we know what each party has.

I think thats a fair conclusion.

There is a chance of of the players taken at 25 becomes a star, you just never know, but in all likelihood, they will have more or less the same impact on a team that James Johnson has.

I would have been content with either, but apparently Colangelo would have rathered Johnson. It is what it is.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

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Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
It's not hating on James Johnson to say he was the easy choice rather than to grab a guy through the draft and take a low risk high reward move. What's the worst that could've happened, we draft a guy, pay him 1 million/year over the next 2 seasons and he doesn't turn into Michael Jordan?

Okay, hating was the wrong word. My bad. I'm just saying, I personally don't think its a huge deal either way. You're trying to engage in a fight with someone who's 100% on the fence about the issue.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:08 PM   #20
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

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As for your rebut of RainingThrees that the scouting report you gave were yours and not from a publication, way to make them even less credible a projection of what the players will become.

Not really, i've done some research both through reading and watching, whereas RT clearly just pulled up an online scouting report and does a lot more reading than he does of actual watching and analyzation. Where do you think scouting reports come from? Scouts that actually sit at or at the very least watch the games on TV and analyze them. RT gets probably almost 100% of his material from other writers who of course not just analyze but put their opinions into their writing and you all just lap it up like lap dogs.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:14 PM   #21
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

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Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
Not really, i've done some research both through reading and watching, whereas RT clearly just pulled up an online scouting report and does a lot more reading than he does of actual watching and analyzation. Where do you think scouting reports come from? Scouts that actually sit at or at the very least watch the games on TV and analyze them. RT gets probably almost 100% of his material from other writers who of course not just analyze but put their opinions into their writing and you all just lap it up like lap dogs.

Scouting reports come from people who's job it is to create them and have watched and analyzed a crap load more games than you have. This is why RT and the rest of the forum place more reliance on them than say, some random poster's opinion based on having seen a few games here or there.

So since JJ isn't stellar in his second year and clearly a 25th pick is preferred to him, I assume you felt the same way about Bargs after his second crap-filled season right? We clearly should have swapped him for a 25th pick if we'd had the chance.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

It'd be appreciated if we could keep Bargnani out of this debate. This has nothing to do with him.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:33 PM   #23
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

A. What does Bargs have to do with this thread? B. How is that even relevant to the topic in any way whatsoever? we didn't trade away a pick to get Bargs.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:35 PM   #24
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

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It'd be appreciated if we could keep Bargnani out of this debate. This has nothing to do with him.

My bad. Not an attempt to turn the thread into a Bargnani debate, more an attempt to drive home the point that judging a player by their second year in the league is a poor move (albeit with probably unnecessary snark) by picking his favourite player.

I'd like to think all sides of the Bargnani debate can agree that he's no as bad as he was year 2.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:40 PM   #25
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

I understand your reasoning, just thought it would be a topic best avoided in this thread.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:41 PM   #26
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Ok, I guess this thread will be irrelevant when James Johnson becomes Gerald Wallace in his 5th season.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:42 PM   #27
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

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Ok, I guess this thread will be irrelevant when James Johnson becomes Gerald Wallace in his 5th season.

It's clear I didn't say that. Stop trying to start shit.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:50 PM   #28
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

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Originally Posted by Chamberlain
It's clear I didn't say that. Stop trying to start shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamberlain
James Johnson is only in his 2nd pro year, so we should wait and see if he can accomplish some of the same things guys like Delfino, Brown, Allen and Batum have.

Keep in mind it took Gerald Wallace 4 years to get off the bench, and 5 to become a real positive factor on a team.
..
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:57 PM   #29
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Yes, his list of people to compare with James Johnson included Gerald Wallace.

So, I used the best player on the list (Wallace) to prove a point that a player needs to get off the bench and be in a good situation to be able to prove what they can do.

I suppose you just forgot to read my next sentence:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamberlain
I don't expect any of the players mentioned in the OP or in your post to become Wallace-like players, but just saying you need to look at both ends of the spectrum.

I forgive you.

edit: Also, its pretty clear that I listed Allen, Delfino etc., as players he has the potential to be as effective as.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:00 PM   #30
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Default Re: James Johnson vs. William Buford vs. Travis Leslie vs....

Based on what Cardelle posted, it's safe to say that in the last 10 years its a 50/50 proposition whether or not you get a guy in the middle/late 1st round who may become impactful at any level. I think this goes to further the point I was trying to make... perhaps unsuccessfully:

That trading a late first round pick for a young player with some upside who you actually have some scouting on at the NBA level might push that 50/50 chance further in your favour.
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