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Old 03-28-2011, 01:15 AM   #31
T-bomb 25
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J.
In Mitch Richmond's first 10 seasons, his lowest PPG total was 21.9(where he only played 45 games). His lowest after that was a flat 22(his rookie season). And let's not forget his three All-NBA 2nd teams and two All-NBA 3rd teams.

Reggie's first 10 seasons, he only had six 20+ PPG seasons. He also never made the All-NBA 2nd team, though he does have three 3rd teams(1995, 1996, and 1998).
I love Reggie,but Mitch was much more complete,and his post game was wicked the best I've seen at SG he had barkley game on the block,he could shoot the lights out of it, defend,take it to the rack,dunk on you he had midrange game he was the complete package,its a shame he played with the Kings,great,great player.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:18 AM   #32
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christofire
I'm not questioning payton's defensive prowess mickou. In fact i think payton is the most underrated PG ever and that he is arguably the best PG that has ever played not named Magic Johnson. I'm just making a note of the fact that payton is another undersized guard on a long list of undersized guards that Jordan took advantage of but Payton not so much as the rest because his defensive skills were uncanny

That's what you are suppose to do as a B-ball player. If you have the size, use it. Magic used his footwork and size to back down Jordan, and he would get around him. But Jordan kept guarding him.

Whatever if it is your intention or not, you are making sound like Payton cannot guard Jordan, Kobe, Wade and similar shooting guards, but Payton could guard Jordan and Kobe. You are insulting Payton's defense. Payton has quicker hands than Jordan and Pippen, and he steal the ball before you know when you try to drive, pass, or shoot it. But in the finals, they switched it up against Jordan. Payton didn't guard Jordan 24/7 in the beginning of the series. Also, when Payton guarded Jordan, Jordan produce his lowest efficiently and points rating ever in the NBA finals. Did you know that Payton hold Jordan to 23 points, his lowest points ever in the finals?

Now why would you insult Gary Payton defense calling him a 6'4 guard in a sarcastic tone when Jordan faced against bigger guys guarding him and destroyed them. He faced against Clyde who was a 6'7 guy, he faced against Gerald Wilkins (the apparently Jordan "stopper"), who was 6'6, and Gary Payton was a guy who is 6'4 hold Jordan to his worse final stats in his career. You are insulting Payton defensive skills.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:19 AM   #33
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

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Originally Posted by T-bomb 25
I love Reggie,but Mitch was much more complete,and his post game was wicked the best I've seen at SG he had barkley game on the block,he could shoot the lights out of it, defend,take it to the rack,dunk on you he had midrange game he was the complete package,its a shame he played with the Kings,great,great player.


Prior to his ring with the Lakers, he only made the playoffs three times. Even if he stayed with Golden State, I think his career would have turned out better. Golden State was screwed once Mullin went down and Hardaway went to Miami.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:21 AM   #34
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

Payton had extremely fast hands, was fast on his feet, and had great length for his height. Hindsight is 20/20, but George Karl's biggest mistake was not putting Payton on Jordan right from the start.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:29 AM   #35
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

It's true the 2-guard position wasn't up to Jordan's skill but the teams were until the apparent expansion. Spreewell was good for 20 a night and great D, Starks was up to 18 a game and D'd up the best. Hawkins the same as Starks, Mitch my fave was a physical specimen with one of the best shooting touches ever just didn't have the build of a typical guard. Payton, besides Moncrief, is one of if not the best short guard perimeter defenders ever!! Plus it's not like Jordan never faced Cooper, Rodman, Dumars, Robertson, etc... throughout his playing days, by far he's been defended by some of the best perimeter defenders in recent times just not on his way to chips but the teams were more team oriented defensively different style and time to now can't really compare the 80-93 era and 94-01 eras are totally different from now.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:32 AM   #36
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

What's funny is that the future teenagers like the OP are going to say similar things about the players they're not familiar with, like Tracy and Vince Carter, similar to how he puts player like Payton down.

Stick with the facts, look at the stats for perimeter players after they changed the rules to have player play more like Jordan. Look at the before and after. Look at Nash. And again, the average height for a SG back then was 6'5", just like today. In fact the league at least in 2007 or so for the first time avergae 6'6", it had been 6'7" since 1984 when they started keeping that statistic.

Also, since I know you're about Kobe, you do realize that he faces a lot of 6'5" 6'4" defenders?

Heck, tonight his opposing shooting guards were 6'5" and 6'3".

This is from another thread that I started

Quote:
This video of Jordan showing how to do the fadeaway kind of talks about what about was refering to about Kobe making mistakes that I never saw Jordan do. Harden kept stripping the ball away from Kobe, and in the video one of the main things Jordan talks about is protecting the basketball, else it's going to get stripped. I'm sure Kobe knows that, but sometimes lack of focus can cause a person to make a mistake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTLSQqhFQ6M

Here's Harden playing defense on Kobe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63TDVWnZ5K8

Noticed that Kobe is doing exactly what Jordan says not to do.

Like I said, the person who's able to think out of the box and expand things, the creative type is always going to be better than a person who tries to copy them. It's a mind thing.

Last edited by jstern : 03-28-2011 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:46 AM   #37
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christofire
The shooting guard position in the 1990s was one of great disparity. There was the one man who dominated the game and the position like none other, and then there was two other great but not as great players behind him and finally there was a plethora of solid but not great shooting guards. The one man who dominated the decade was His Airness, Michael Jordan.

Jordan may be the most recognizable of all the shooting guards on this lists, but the others were fantastic players in their own rights and nearly all of them went against Jordan at least once in the playoffs.

10. Nick Anderson
A player whose appearance on this list may surprise many. Anderson was never an all-star or all NBA player but he was a solid shooting guard who contributed to many very good Orlando Magic teams. He made an appearance in the NBA Finals, and the hall of shame in 1995 where despite being a very good free throw shooter, he missed to clutch freebies that allowed the Rockets to win the game and ultimately the Championship.

9. Hersey Hawkins
Hawkins is a player most have forgotten about, but he was a formidable scorer and a one time All-star. Hawkins was the team leader for the Sixers after they traded Charles Barkley averaging 20 points a game for three seasons before going to Charlotte and taking the job as a role player. Hawkins was always a solid role player and in 1996 he was a key player on the Seattle Sonics team which made the NBA finals.

8. Joe Dumars
The nice guy on the bad-boy Pistons, Dumars became the hero of the 1989 NBA finals where he captured the MVP trophy. Dumars was a six time NBA all-star and retired from the Pistons in 1999 to take a job in the front office. He was elected to the NBA Hall-Of-Fame in 2006.

7. Latrell Sprewell
One of the most talented players of the 90s, Sprewell had attitude problems which hurt his on the floor performance; most notably being when in 1998 he choked his head coach PJ Carlisimo. Despite these short comings, Sprewell was a solid player making the All-star team four time and making the all NBA team in 1994. Sprewell was awesome part of the 1999 New York Knicks which were an eight seed that made a run to the NBA finals only to lose to the Spurs.

6. Jeff Hornacek
A deadeye shooter who twice won the NBA’s three point contest, Hornacek was a key contributor where ever he went. He was a one time All-star while playing for the Phoenix Suns in 1992. As a member of the Utah Jazz he made two NBA finals appearance in 1997 and 1998.

5. John Starks
Offensively Starks was just an average player at best, but he was a fantastic defensive player giving players like Michael Jordan a hard time in the playoffs for many years. Starks defensive tenacity is part of the reason the NBA outlawed hand checking in the mid 1990s. Starks was a one time All-star while playing for the New York Knicks in 1994, the same year he and the Knicks made the NBA finals

4. Mitch Richmond
Some may be surprised to see him here, but Richard was the most proficient scoring guard in the NBA in the 1990s. His 16,173 points between 1990 and 2000 put him well ahead of Reggie Miller in that department and he has nearly 1,000 more points than Jordan. Richmond was a six time all-star with the Kings and Wizards and a consistent 20 points a night scorer with a career high of 26 points per game in 1997. The biggest knock on Richard was that his teams were always bad. The Kings made a playoff appearance in 1996 but lost in the fist round, but his last year in the NBA he did win a title with the Los Angeles Lakers but appeared in only two playoff games. He was also the 1995 All-star game MVP.

3. Reggie Miller
The second highest scoring guard in the decade behind Richmond, Miller was 5 time all-star and helped guide the Pacers to the 2000 NBA finals. He played his entire career with the Pacers and that may have hurt him in getting recognition because 5 times in his career did he average over 20 points a game and did not make the all-star team. Miller was also a fantastic shooter, he loved to curl off of screens and knock down the three ball.

2. Clyde Drexler
The Glyde is one of the most successful players of the 90s, he won a NBA title with the Rockets in 1995 and was 7 time all-star in the 1990s and made the All-NBA team once. He helped Portland make the finals twice, once in 1990 and again in 1992.

1. Michael Jordan
No player dominated the 90s like Jordan. Jordan did not just dominate the NBA in the 90s, he dominated the sports world and pop culture as well. He was the most marketable player of all-time, and is still doing premier commercials nearly five years after he last played basketball. Jordan’s accomplishments are well known, he won six NBA titles with the Bulls, was a 7 time all-star between 1990-2000, despite retiring twice in the decade, and won four of his five NBA MVPs in the 90s.



nice little article i found


Weak Era in 90s

Today

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Manu Ginobili
4. Monta Ellis
5. Eric Gordon
6. Joe Johnson
7. Ray Allen
8. Kevin Martin
9. OJ Mayo
10. James Harden


In the 00s it was no joke either

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Tracy McGrady
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Allen Iverson
5. Manu Ginobili
6. Vince Carter
7. Jerry Stackhouse
8. Gilbert Arenas
9. Brandon Roy
10. Monta Ellis
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:50 AM   #38
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

Starks and Anderson has no place in that list. Steve Smith, Eddie Jones, Ron Harper and even Allan Houston were clearly better.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:56 AM   #39
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie43
Starks and Anderson has no place in that list. Steve Smith, Eddie Jones, Ron Harper and even Allan Houston were clearly better.
All of them are too tall for the list, so it goes against the agenda.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:57 AM   #40
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

Quote:
Originally Posted by O.J A 6'4Mamba
Weak Era in 90s

Today

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Manu Ginobili
4. Monta Ellis
5. Eric Gordon
6. Joe Johnson
7. Ray Allen
8. Kevin Martin
9. OJ Mayo
10. James Harden


In the 00s it was no joke either

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Tracy McGrady
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Allen Iverson
5. Manu Ginobili
6. Vince Carter
7. Jerry Stackhouse
8. Gilbert Arenas
9. Brandon Roy
10. Monta Ellis
Move AI to the number one spot and everyone else a spot below and the list is more accurate.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:06 AM   #41
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

Starks over Sprewell(who was an all-nba FIRST TEAM player at one point), JR Rider? Jim Jackson?
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:21 AM   #42
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

The 90s were more big guy era.

The 00s have many great perimeter players. They are stacked, but they are lacking bigs.

The 80s had everything.

Last edited by Micku : 03-28-2011 at 02:41 AM.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:40 AM   #43
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstern
All of them are too tall for the list, so it goes against the agenda.

Must be it Theres even a bunch of players arguably better
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:58 AM   #44
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-bomb 25
Drextler and Richmond would score on all these guys at will even Kobe and Wade you can fit them 2 in any era...

I wasn't talking about their defense. I was talking about their offensively production in their prime. None of them are top 10 shooting guards of all time except for 2. Kobe and Wade.

A.I is also a top 10 shooting guard imo. I just think that the 00s have better shooting guard and perhaps perimeter overall in comparison to the 90s in terms of prime and stuff.
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:01 AM   #45
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Default Re: Top 10 Sgs of the 90s

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Originally Posted by Reggie43
Must be it Theres even a bunch of players arguably better
Yeah that's not the top 10 best. Not by a long shot. Id say off the top of my head. Jordan, richmond, miller, drexler, harper, smith, sprewell, dumars, marjle, and then anderson. All were 6'6 and taller except dumars. But he's in the hall of fame.
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