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Old 09-10-2012, 06:27 PM   #196
Yao Ming's Foot
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Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy


On a serious note, could you IMAGINE Jordan in his prime playing today? Similar pace and defensive rating except no handchecking?

We don't have to imagine him facing sub 100 defensive rated teams in the playoffs. It happened twice.

MJ vs 97 Heat



MJ vs 93 Knicks



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Old 09-10-2012, 07:45 PM   #197
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Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
We don't have to imagine him facing sub 100 defensive rated teams in the playoffs. It happened twice.

MJ vs 97 Heat



MJ vs 93 Knicks



Sprained wrist vs the knicks in 93. I agree through 33-35 Mj had some bad FG% series. The year before MJ shot 48% on the Knicks in the playoffs who were ranked 2nd in the league in defense.

Through the 92 season Jordan averaged 30.1ppg on 51.9%fg vs the rest of the NBA
Jordan averaged 29.8ppg vs the Knicks in 92 and shot 46.9% vs the 92 Knicks

Through the 92 season Chris Mullin averaged 25.6ppg on 52.4%fg vs the rest of the NBA
Chris Mullin averaged 25.0ppg vs the 92 Knicks and shot 39.6% vs the 92 Knicks

Through the 92 season Clyde Drexler averaged 25.0ppg on 47.0%fg vs the rest of the NBA
Clyde averaged 21.5ppg vs the 92 Knicks and shot 37.5% vs the 92 Knicks

Through the 92 season Tim Hardaway averaged 23.4ppg on 46.1%fg vs the rest of the NBA
Tim Hardaway averaged 26.5ppg vs the 92 Knicks and shot 48.8% vs the 92 Knicks
(the defense focused on Chris Mullin)

Through the 92 season Mitch Richmond averaged 22.5ppg on 46.8%fg vs the rest of the NBA
Mitch Richmond averaged 26.0ppg vs the 92 Knicks and shot 53.1% vs the 92 Knicks
(Mitch only faced the Knicks twice in 92, and was 5-13 in the first game for 15 points but 12-19 in the second game for 37 points)

Through the 92 season Glen Rice averaged 22.3ppg on 46.9%fg vs the rest of the NBA
Glen Rice averaged 21.4ppg vs the 92 Knicks and shot 43.3% vs the 92 Knicks

Through the 92 season Ricky Pierce averaged 21.7ppg on 47.5%fg vs the rest of the NBA
Ricky Pierce averaged 18.5ppg and shot 39.3% vs the 92 Knicks

Through the 92 season Pippen averaged 21.0ppg on 50.6%fg vs the rest of the NBA
Pippen averaged 17.5ppg vs the Knicks in 92 and shot 41.3% fg% against the 1992 Knicks.

Through the 92 season Reggie Lewis averaged 20.8ppg and shot 50.3% vs the rest of the NBA
Reggie Lewis averaged 22.0ppg vs the Knicks in 92 and shot 48.8% against the 92 Knicks

Through the 92 season Reggie Miller averaged 20.7ppg and shot 50.1% vs the rest of the NBA
Reggie Miller averaged 21.8ppg vs the 92 Knicks and shot 46.1% vs the 92 Knicks

Through the 92 season Drazen Petrovic averaged 20.6ppg and shot 50.8% vs the rest of the NBA
Drazen Petrovic averaged 17.4ppg vs the Knicks in 92 and shot 50.0% vs the 92 Knicks

Through the 92 season Kendall Gill averaged 20.5ppg and shot 46.7% vs the rest of the NBA
Kendall Gill averaged 17.0ppg vs the Knicks in 92 and shot 44.4% vs the 92 Knicks

Through the 92 season Jeff Malone averaged 20.2ppg and shot 51.1% vs the rest of the NBA
Jeff Malone averaged 13.0ppg vs the Knicks in 92 and shot 31.0% vs the 92 Knicks
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:45 PM   #198
kuniva_dAMiGhTy
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Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

...And here's the real comparison

Kobe, at age 30, in the 2009 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.2ppg, .457%fg, 5.3reb, 5.5ast

Jordan, at age 30, in the 1993 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
35.1ppg, .472%fg, 6.7reb, 6.0ast


Kobe, at age 32, in the 2011 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 106):
22.8ppg, .446%fg, 3.4reb, 3.4ast

Jordan, at age 33, in the '96 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.7ppg, .459%fg, 4.9reb, 4.1ast


Kobe, at age 33, in the 2012 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 104):
30.0ppg, .439%fg, 4.8reb, 4.3ast

Jordan, at age 34, in the '97 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 102):
31.1ppg, .456%fg, 7.9reb, 4.8ast

Sorry Yao, your boy has ZERO excuses.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:09 AM   #199
Yao Ming's Foot
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Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
...And here's the real comparison

Kobe, at age 30, in the 2009 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.2ppg, .457%fg, 5.3reb, 5.5ast

Jordan, at age 30, in the 1993 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
35.1ppg, .472%fg, 6.7reb, 6.0ast


Kobe, at age 32, in the 2011 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 106):
22.8ppg, .446%fg, 3.4reb, 3.4ast

Jordan, at age 33, in the '96 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 105):
30.7ppg, .459%fg, 4.9reb, 4.1ast


Kobe, at age 33, in the 2012 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 104):
30.0ppg, .439%fg, 4.8reb, 4.3ast

Jordan, at age 34, in the '97 playoffs (opponents DRtg - 102):
31.1ppg, .456%fg, 7.9reb, 4.8ast

Sorry Yao, your boy has ZERO excuses.

Nobody puts Kobe's last two postseasons on par with Jordan's 4th and 5th title.

Kobe in 09 has the higher TS% and with a normalized pace his numbers are right there with Jordan.

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Old 09-11-2012, 11:08 AM   #200
kuniva_dAMiGhTy
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Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
Nobody puts Kobe's last two postseasons on par with Jordan's 4th and 5th title.

Kobe in 09 has the higher TS% and with a normalized pace his numbers are right there with Jordan.

Many people do - especially in an age comparison. This one is predicated off defensive rating, you know, points per 100 possessions?

And Jordan had a higher FG and eFG% averaging 5ppg MORE than Kobe.
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:56 PM   #201
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Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatAsh
Seems to work.

Not sure if it's just pure coincidence, but my personal picks for the top two defenses of all time are among the lowest z-scores

1. 93 Knicks(-2.9)
2. 08 Celtics(-2.7)

It also affirms my long standing belief that the Bill Russell Celtics were the greatest defensive team of all time. Pure sustained defensive domination.

btw, in case it takes forever to load, check to see if you have an option to "paste values" (which will convert the formulas to plain text) in your spreadsheet program (I do in Apple Numbers which is far more limited than Excel, so if you have that you should be covered)

as is, the cells are linked to one another so it's a very CPU-intensive task to remap the coordinates (column x row) of those used in the formulas for average and SD
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:43 PM   #202
fpliii
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Default Re: Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

Not sure if anyone cares, but I just finished a new file. Here's the link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...3WUJyVm04L UE

There are three new columns:

G: ORtg_Z'
J: DRtg_Z'
M: Pace_Z'

which are the same as the other z-scores, with one caveat. Since we're dealing with small sample sizes (particularly in earlier seasons), individual outliers can skew mean/SD, which in turn will undervalue their z-scores (which is just the # of SDs from the mean). This is one possible tool to treat that problem. As n-->∞ ORtg_Z'-->ORtg_Z (same for the other two), since the noise for a small-ish sample will no longer be present. I think the best bet is to look at both numbers to evaluate in context, but if you only want to deal with one set of values, G,J,M are superior to F,I,L.

The version linked above only contains the data in text format. If you want the version with the calculations in every cell, use this file:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2aFJUbnIwV kE

which still has all the necessary formulas. Beware though if you import the file into Excel, as sorting with this can take a very long amount of time (and could crash the program); this second version provides no advantage for analysis, I'm just supplying it for transparency of my methodology.
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