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Old 09-08-2012, 04:00 AM   #1876
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdreason
And Arlovski would be one of the greatest HW's of all time if his chin wasn't made of glass.
Yep. It's really sad too.

Btw speaking of chins, thats the one thing I don't think Andy gets enough credit for. Outside of Henderson and big country he has IMO the best chin in Mma. It usually doesn't get noticed because he makes people miss but even when he gets hit, it generally doesn't faze him.
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:06 AM   #1877
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Yep. It's really sad too.

Btw speaking of chins, thats the one thing I don't think Andy gets enough credit for. Outside of Henderson and big country he has IMO the best chin in Mma. It usually doesn't get noticed because he makes people miss but even when he gets hit, it generally doesn't faze him.

agreed once again. he also seemingly never gets cut. rua of course is another guy that has a stellar chin.

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Old 09-08-2012, 04:25 AM   #1878
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

I'm sorry, but who is Andy?
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:30 AM   #1879
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

andy:

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Old 09-08-2012, 04:44 AM   #1880
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

you sure he wasn't talking about andy? just look at that magnificent badass:





then again, this andy looks like he could take down a lot of people... maybe by humping their leg:

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Old 09-08-2012, 04:48 AM   #1881
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

oh Anderson, sorry I've never heard him called Andy before.
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:48 AM   #1882
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

andy warhol has that crazy 'i'll gouge out your eyes and knee your balls to win' look so i'll pass on that
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:01 PM   #1883
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

roy nelson's chin. >>
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:38 PM   #1884
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin
roy nelson's chin. >>
That would be the big country I referenced.

And iv heard him referred to as Andy repeatedly on sherdog and Mma mania/bloody elbow
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:57 AM   #1885
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknapalm
not really, mir was favored vs. nog. cormier is just a bad matchup, style wise. mir typically struggles vs. good wrestlers and that's exactly what cormier is. he has great TD defense and great top control.

mir can always grab a limb off his back but i just can't see it...

He was favored Vs. Nog? No he wasn't?! A lot of people were bitchin about his chin so they picked Nog over him.. And most of them agreed that Nog was a better striker than Frank and if the fight went to the ground, Nog would have demolished him... Hell, even Joe Rogan gave the advantage to Nog.. but guess what?

The only wrestler that tried to take him down was Lesnar. So I don't think he lost because of his abilities. He lost to fighters/wrestlers because of his RIDICULOUS GAMEPLAN.

But he did admit that he needs to improve on his takedown, that's why he's trying to work on it right now.



Here was his gameplan for Carwin:


Quote:
I knew out in the open that I was a superior boxer. I just knew that he had a very good advantage in up-close fighting - against the cage. And I had said it leading up to the fight, also, that if I got taken down near the cage, and hadn't made improvements in my game, that I'd have a problem.

"I think it became a problem of over-training for one aspect. I think I was so obsessed with not being taken down. And you could see, when he shot on me, I was so appeased with myself, like, 'Look, you can't take me down, you're an excellent wrestler.' I think I was celebrating mentally, like, 'Hey, look, I can avoid the take down now, I've improved my game.' I forgot about getting punched in the face.

"Against the cage, I remember looking over at my coach. He's like, 'Ninety more seconds.' I think, 'Alright, cool. I'm gonna wait about another 30 seconds. With a minute left, I'm gonna steal the round. I'll go ahead and push off the cage. I've used no energy so far yet in this fight whatsoever. Four minutes into it, he's done all the energy expenditure so far. One little flurry real quick, and I can sneak the round by on the judges. Go into the second round and maybe he'll be more desperate to make chances and shoot from far out. I'll get ahead and cause him to panic a little bit.' And as I'm thinking these things, he bumps me - hits me with an uppercut. And the guy hits really, really hard."

Last edited by $LakerGold : 09-09-2012 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:58 AM   #1886
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

But yeah, Frank is the type of fighter that wants to beat their opponents at the best of what they're good at.

Last edited by $LakerGold : 09-09-2012 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:16 AM   #1887
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
He was favored Vs. Nog? No he wasn't?! A lot of people were bitchin about his chin so they picked Nog over him.. And most of them agreed that Nog was a better striker than Frank and if the fight went to the ground, Nog would have demolished him... Hell, even Joe Rogan gave the advantage to Nog.. but guess what?

http://www.bestbetufc.com/ufc-odds/a...rank-mir-odds/

vegas odds and that's all that really matters. mir opened and closed as a moderate favorite in the betting books. i don't care what random sherdoggers or rogan says.

i picked mir to win the fight and i didn't think it was that crazy. big nog is old and his striking has gotten sloppier. mir is super dangerous off his back. the only problem is he lacks an elite clinch game to transition into those subs. he can slap it on out of nowhere but he doesn't dictate fights to the ground. guys with good takedown defense give him fits. his standup grappling needs work to say the least.

rogan is strange anyway...he craps on boxing yet when any fighter connects with the simplest of combos, he goes crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
The only wrestler that tried to take him down was Lesnar. So I don't think he lost because of his abilities. He lost to fighters/wrestlers because of his RIDICULOUS GAMEPLAN.

agreed that mir comes in with some strange gameplans at times. i will never understand why he cut so much weight for lesnar III. dude was never going to be quicker, even 20-30 pounds lighter. lesnar is freakishly fast for his size. mir coming in so light just played right into lesnar's hands. i remember seeing weigh in and going, 'wtf mir?', lol. not sure if i agree with the part that he didn't lose because of his abilities...i still take lesnar 2/3 times as i think he was overmatched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
Here is his gameplan for Carwin:

he overthinks his gameplans, but that shouldn't really be an excuse. everyone knows that carwin's hands are heavy so i don't know why he would be so worried over his takedowns that he'd completely forget about his hands. not even sure why he'd be worried about carwin taking him down in the first place. outside of ground n pound, mir owns him on the ground. i'd tend to think that mir could avoid full mount from carwin as long as he wasn't stunned first.

anyway, i'm far from a mir hater. i'm just calling it like i see it....i think cormier is going to beat him up with shots to the face while mixing up body shots and mir struggles with the takedown. i see it playing out similar to the jds fight...thought mir did okay there considering. obviously cormier's striking isn't on jds' level but he's got KO power for sure.

i know you're a big mir fan and i'll be the first to say congrats if he wins. i was rooting for him after his motorcycle accident. it's not like his wins are flukes...he's one of the best HW subbers in the game.

EDIT: just looked it up and cormier is a pretty heavy favorite vs. mir: http://www.mmaoddsbreaker.com/news/s...frank-mir-225/

cormier's striking is ever improving and as an olympic wrestler, he has elite wrestling of course. don't let his pudgy physique fool you. he's definitely a top notch athlete. he knows how to use his hips well, both in takedown defense and striking. is this why he's nicknamed 'black fedor'? no idea. fedor won in more ways so i guess it's the physique thing. we really haven't seen cormier in many wars either. i don't see mir changing that.

if mir goes into the fight trying to outwrestle cormier, that is supremely unwise. he's got to get it to the ground via clinch or sweep. i don't see how he wins any other way.

mir is in his mid 30s now and all his losses have come via KO. i think it's getting to the point where his best years are behind him. tbh, i think a move to LHW might help him if the weight cut isn't brutal. he'd be favored over almost everybody not named jones. that's probably a long shot though...i don't really think eh can make that cut.

Last edited by blacknapalm : 09-09-2012 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:17 AM   #1888
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Exclamation Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknapalm
http://www.bestbetufc.com/ufc-odds/a...rank-mir-odds/

vegas odds and that's all that really matters. mir opened and closed as a moderate favorite in the betting books. i don't care what random sherdoggers or rogan says.

i picked mir to win the fight and i didn't think it was that crazy. big nog is old and his striking has gotten sloppier. mir is super dangerous off his back. the only problem is he lacks an elite clinch game to transition into those subs. he can slap it on out of nowhere but he doesn't dictate fights to the ground. guys with good takedown defense give him fits. his standup grappling needs work to say the least.

rogan is strange anyway...he craps on boxing yet when any fighter connects with the simplest of combos, he goes crazy.

Haha, we can go all day with that debate but.. From what I read they favored Nog over Frank. One, because he was much more hungrier than Frank, he was much more focused, he improved his striking and head movement over the years after his surgery, but let's just say Nog was really the one that was waiting for that day to happen.

His grappling on the ground is definitely a top 5.

"Elite clinch game to transition into those subs?" Are you expecting him to throw a flying armbar or a standing guillotine? LOL

Anyways, if you meant grappling on the ground.... Here's two things, it's either he got rocked and got bombed on once the fight went to the ground, or he or the fighter intended to take the fight to the ground.

If he did get rocked and the fight went to the ground, obviously you have lesser chance to pull-off a submission.. and the only fight that showcased of him being rocked and get bombed on are Lesnar, Vera, and Carwin... But the 2nd fight with Lesnar, he was laying down there and let Brock blast him with those punches. I really did not get his gameplan there at all, he gave Lesnar a free pass.

Other than that, he pretty much won. Look at the Antoni Hardonk, Tim Sylvia, and the rest of those fights. When the fight went to the ground by him or them taking him down without him getting rocked? they were pretty much DONE.

So I don't think he lacks on grappling, considering that he's one of the best. I do agree though, that he doesn't really care what's gonna happen in the fight ... If the fight doesn't go to the ground, he'll just stand with the fighter or clinch him up against the cage.
"His stand-up grappling needs an improvement?" The only fight that showcased that is the Mirko, Carwin, Roy Nelson Match.... And he lost the Carwin one. So overall, nothing worst has really happened to him besides from that fight, it wasn't like he was losing constantly by clinching.

.. LOL, Rogan is a huge fan of boxing 2nd to MMA ... He doesn't hate Boxing, he was just stating facts when he was arguing with Lou Dibella, he was keepin it real. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknapalm
agreed that mir comes in with some strange gameplans at times. i will never understand why he cut so much weight for lesnar III. dude was never going to be quicker, even 20-30 pounds lighter. lesnar is freakishly fast for his size. mir coming in so light just played right into lesnar's hands. i remember seeing weigh in and going, 'wtf mir?', lol. not sure if i agree with the part that he didn't lose because of his abilities...i still take lesnar 2/3 times as i think he was overmatched.

What are you talkin about? He already said that he didn't cut weight at that time.
He gained 20-30 lbs of muscle after the Lesnar fight throughout to the Carwin fight.


Quote:
he overthinks his gameplans, but that shouldn't really be an excuse. everyone knows that carwin's hands are heavy so i don't know why he would be so worried over his takedowns that he'd completely forget about his hands. not even sure why he'd be worried about carwin taking him down in the first place. outside of ground n pound, mir owns him on the ground. i'd tend to think that mir could avoid full mount from carwin as long as he wasn't stunned first.

anyway, i'm far from a mir hater. i'm just calling it like i see it....i think cormier is going to beat him up with shots to the face while mixing up body shots and mir struggles with the takedown. i see it playing out similar to the jds fight...thought mir did okay there considering. obviously cormier's striking isn't on jds' level but he's got KO power for sure.

i know you're a big mir fan and i'll be the first to say congrats if he wins. i was rooting for him after his motorcycle accident. it's not like his wins are flukes...he's one of the best HW subbers in the game.

EDIT: just looked it up and cormier is a pretty heavy favorite vs. mir: http://www.mmaoddsbreaker.com/news/s...frank-mir-225/

cormier's striking is ever improving and as an olympic wrestler, he has elite wrestling of course. don't let his pudgy physique fool you. he's definitely a top notch athlete. he knows how to use his hips well, both in takedown defense and striking. is this why he's nicknamed 'black fedor'? no idea. fedor won in more ways so i guess it's the physique thing. we really haven't seen cormier in many wars either. i don't see mir changing that.

if mir goes into the fight trying to outwrestle cormier, that is supremely unwise. he's got to get it to the ground via clinch or sweep. i don't see how he wins any other way.

His gameplan is exactly why the fight went that way.

Cormier is this and that. Well yeah, there's a reason why he's the champ. He's very great at wrestling, and I would give the striking a slight advantage to Cormier knowing that he can be explosive in a way. I think that Mir will just have to pray that he doesn't get caught.

Anyways, now we have to wait and see if Frank made some adjustments, this could be possibly his last run (hopefully not), so he might be trying to tweak somethin in his game.
Last time I heard, he was training at Fabers gym in Sacramento w/ Urijah & Joe Benavidez. (Who knows...)
And he's constantly working on his grappling with Ricky Lundell ever since the cheick kongo or Mirko fight.

Last edited by $LakerGold : 09-09-2012 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:34 AM   #1889
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Nahh, Mir is still slightly improving ... Any Mir fan would say the same, only because we could see what the others dont see

Nahh, Mir is still trying to improve... Overall he was at his best around the Cheick Kongo fight cuz that's when he made changes and improvements.

Frank is still in his prime and will prolly peak 2-3 years from now.
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Old 09-09-2012, 08:44 AM   #1890
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
Haha, we can go all day with that debate but.. From what I read they favored Nog over Frank. One, because he was much more hungrier than Frank, he was much more focused, he improved his striking and head movement over the years after his surgery, but let's just say Nog was really the one that was waiting for that day to happen.

i really don't know what to tell you here. vegas odds had him as the favorite. if you bet big nog, you were betting for the underdog. like i said, i expected mir to win that fight. if all you were hearing was a bunch of noise about how mir wasn't going to win, well, that's you. now, i wasn't expecting him to break nog's arm of course, but i thought nog would either tap out or lose via decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
His grappling on the ground is definitely a top 5.

no doubt. arguably top 5 overall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
"Elite clinch game to transition into those subs?" Are you expecting him to throw a flying armbar or a standing guillotine? LOL

not at all. i did expect him to get better at his takedowns at this point. his clinch game is just not very good. are you saying a bit of muay thai wouldn't have helped him out? it's a weakness of his. big nog and werdum are better at getting their opponents to the ground than mir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
Anyways, if you meant grappling on the ground.... Here's two things, it's either he got rocked and got bombed on once the fight went to the ground, or he or the fighter intended to take the fight to the ground.

If he did get rocked and the fight went to the ground, obviously you have lesser chance to pull-off a submission.. and the only fight that showcased of him being rocked and get bombed on are Lesnar, Vera, and Carwin... But the 2nd fight with Lesnar, he was laying down there and let Brock blast him with those punches. I really did not get his gameplan there at all, he gave Lesnar a free pass.

lesnar started his attack by pulling him down against the cage. then he started his gnp in half guard and did major damage there. he didn't really get side control until late and by then mir had rolled onto his stomach and was unable to defend himself. lesnar rocked him. it wasn't a gameplan. he was just overmatched. say what you will about lesnar but the dude had some vicious hammer fists, so that's no real slight on mir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
Other than that, he pretty much won. Look at the Antoni Hardonk, Tim Sylvia, and the rest of those fights. When the fight went to the ground by him or them taking him down without him getting rocked? they were pretty much DONE.

i don't dispute that. like i said, even in the carwin fight, he shouldn't have been worried about taking it to the ground. mir is way more likely to finish a fight on the ground than he is standing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
So I don't think he lacks on grappling, considering that he's one of the best. I do agree though, that he doesn't really care what's gonna happen in the fight ... If the fight doesn't go to the ground, he'll just stand with the fighter or clinch him up against the cage.
"His stand-up grappling needs an improvement?" The only fight that showcased that is the Mirko, Carwin, Roy Nelson Match.... And he lost the Carwin one. So overall, nothing worst has really happened to him besides from that fight, it wasn't like he was losing constantly by clinching.

ok, so we agree that his stand up grappling is a weakness? all the guys he faces and he loses to have KO power. that's no different than cormier. now, combine that with the fact that cormier has great takedown defense and mir doesn't have a way to take guys down consistently....it makes sense why cormier is favored to win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
.. LOL, Rogan is a huge fan of boxing 2nd to MMA ... He doesn't hate Boxing, he was just stating facts when he was arguing with Lou Dibella, he was keepin it real. I don't see anything wrong with that.

rogan can say whatever he wants. sometimes he's okay but other times he makes you shake your head. my friend was present when he got his black belt from bravo. he tore james toney a new one even though (as a boxing fan), he should have known the guy was old, way past his prime, overweight and talking nonsense for years. on top of that he had a great peak across multiple weight divisions. he just towed the company line....ufc and the rest of them exploited it like nobody's business in an attempt to generalize and say mma > boxing. anybody who uses that as proof to say mma is better than boxing is a moron. toney wanted a paycheck and he got one, no different than his late boxing days really, talking garbage along the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
What are you talkin about? He already said that he didn't cut weight at that time.
He gained 20-30 lbs of muscle after the Lesnar fight throughout to the Carwin fight.

i was talking about lesnar II at ufc 100. at the weigh in, he came in at 245 and brock was at 265. brock didn't even look like he cut much weight while mir looked ripped. i think by fight time, brock was around 280. i have no idea why he would go into that fight with such a weight disadvantage. i don't think it's smart to go in lighter than usual against a guy who is much bigger and faster than you naturally. if anything, i'm going in there chubby so it makes it harder to take me down...or at least more packed on muscle. in lesnar I, i think he went in at 255. he went in at 251 vs. big nog at ufc 192. i will never understand why he went in at 245 vs. lesnar who was way bigger naturally and a wrestler, unless it was just some long term plan to lose weight. it didn't last long either way.

anyway, we'll just have to see how his grappling comes along. if he takes cormier down more than once, i'll be very impressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by $LakerGold
Frank is still in his prime and will prolly peak 2-3 years from now.

i don't even know what to say to this. please name athletes that peaked at 36-37 that aren't table tennis players.

Last edited by blacknapalm : 09-09-2012 at 09:11 AM.
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