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Old 03-08-2013, 11:31 PM   #3196
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Low
Saying Diaz is a better fighter than GSP is like saying Blake Griffin is a better basketball player than Tim Duncan just because Duncan plays a safe/boring game. GSP fights, GSP wins. That's why you fight, to win.
When i think about Basketball i think of people putting a ball in a basket and/or defending other players from putting a ball in a basket.

When i think of fighting i think of two guys trying to beat the shit out of each other not laying on top of each other.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:41 PM   #3197
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

eh, i dislike boring fighters as much as the next guy, but GSP isnt 'boring' to me. maybe he's guilty of being to safe sometimes, but thats more him dominating his opponent and not letting his opponent do anything. but yah hes not the flashy, exciting, or guy whos willing to take punishment to unleash punishment type of fighter

like the last fight of his that i could say i truly disliked was his shields fight, im fine with the others. in the shields fight, im pretty sure gsp was fighting with one eyed vision after the first round, just like nate diaz was vs henderson. maybe the koscheck fight too, but cmon, gsp broke koscheck's orbital plate and socket, just with jabs

there are lay and pray fighters out there, but gsp? nah i dont think so. if you were able to take down any opponent in your division at will, and have the athleticism and strength to make him your bitch on the ground, would you not? and gsp at least tries to advance his position or ground and pounds the hell out of you

lets not act like gsp hasnt beat the shit out of his fair share of opponents...
he just happens to do it without taking a beating himself. (condit got him pretty good though)

either way, march 16 cant come soon enough

Last edited by jaydacris : 03-08-2013 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:46 PM   #3198
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brujesino
When i think about Basketball i think of people putting a ball in a basket and/or defending other players from putting a ball in a basket.

When i think of fighting i think of two guys trying to beat the shit out of each other not laying on top of each other.

Let's look at some of GSP's last few opponents and see if he doesn't beat the shit out of them








He just goes about it a more strategic way. Let's look at GSP vs Condit and let's look at Diaz vs. Condit.

Diaz sticks to the same "exciting" brawling/boxing/standing gameplan he always uses. Condit avoids him, evades his hits, sticks him and moves. Diaz can't do shit against him and ends up losing the fight because he refused to change his style up.

GSP fights Condit. Takes him down, bloodies him up, just dominates the guy for 5 rounds. They both landed hits on Condit. Difference was GSP used a strategy that didn't allow Condit to run. A guy can't stick you and move if you're holding him down. Nick Diaz lost because he sticks to his same game plan and if that doesn't work he flips out and starts complaining and getting frustrated. That's why he's not as good a fighter as St Pierre.

You said the purpose of basketball is to score and defend, but fighting is about beating someone's ass. There's lots of ways to score. Some exciting like 3 pointers and dunks, some not so exciting like hook shots and bank shots. In fighting there's exciting ways to beat someone's ass (the Wanderlei style) and there's less exciting ways to beat someone's ass (take em down, ground and pound). GSP beats people's asses just fine. He just takes a different route to do it.
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:01 AM   #3199
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Its cool that he dominates his opponents he just doesn it in a really boring manner.

I guess its just me but the whole strategy of winning a fight by not having to fight is pretty stupid.You say its smart to hold someone down i say he is preventing a fight from happening.

Its whatever-Nick Diaz
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:07 AM   #3200
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brujesino
Its cool that he dominates his opponents he just doesn it in a really boring manner.

I guess its just me but the whole strategy of winning a fight by not having to fight is pretty stupid.You say its smart to hold someone down i say he is preventing a fight from happening.

Its whatever-Nick Diaz

I mean you can say he's holding them down to prevent a fight from happening. But in reality he's holding them down to keep from getting hit. Again if you compare it to basketball, that's like saying you hate when teams play defense because they're trying to make it a boring/low scoring game. They're playing defense because to win the game you have to stop the other team from scoring, while still managing to score yourself. When you fight, you keep the other guy from hitting you while still managing to hit him, because that's how you win the fight.

Nick Diaz is an all offensive fighter. He's the old school Suns. He throws punches like crazy, but that's it. And just like the old Suns, it makes for some exciting games, but it doesn't win championships. Spurs ball wins championships, just like GSP's style wins him championship fights. Keep the other team from scoring, but score yourself. Keep the other fighter from hitting you, while hitting him yourself. Same plan, different game.
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:20 AM   #3201
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Low
I mean you can say he's holding them down to prevent a fight from happening. But in reality he's holding them down to keep from getting hit. Again if you compare it to basketball, that's like saying you hate when teams play defense because they're trying to make it a boring/low scoring game. They're playing defense because to win the game you have to stop the other team from scoring, while still managing to score yourself. When you fight, you keep the other guy from hitting you while still managing to hit him, because that's how you win the fight.

Nick Diaz is an all offensive fighter. He's the old school Suns. He throws punches like crazy, but that's it. And just like the old Suns, it makes for some exciting games, but it doesn't win championships. Spurs ball wins championships, just like GSP's style wins him championship fights. Keep the other team from scoring, but score yourself. Keep the other fighter from hitting you, while hitting him yourself. Same plan, different game.
You cant really compare a non contact sport like basketball to the most contact sport because basketball is basketball.

A fight is a fight in which two people fight.Like fighters.Fighting one on one because they are fighters.Fighting each other to see who the best fighter is so that they can tell other fighters that they can beat them in a fight should they ever fight.Thats what a fighter does, they fight,like fighters.

We have different thoughts of what a fight is.Also i dont give a shit if GSP or Nick is the better fighter because the way the rules are in MMA it doesnt matter, if they had pride rules then we would see who were the best fighters.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:20 AM   #3202
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

so is this discussion like separating people truly interested in the science of MMA from those who just like to see a good brawl?


but... i do see one of you currently losing, if i had to call the decision right this moment...
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:20 AM   #3203
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brujesino
We have different thoughts of what a fight is.Also i dont give a shit if GSP or Nick is the better fighter because the way the rules are in MMA it doesnt matter, if they had pride rules then we would see who were the best fighters.

This x1000 repped

I just can't stand it when a fighter gets a take down and than "pretends" to work by throwing weak ass punches that do nothing and little shots to the body just because they don't want to be stood up while the guy from the bottom is doing everything to win by going for submissions & sweeps.

The scoring system is so in favour of wrestlers its unreal, its basically like wrestlers are Kevin Durrant & James Harden getting every f&*king lame call while others get hammered and don't even get a whistle. Imo if the guy on top is not doing anything other than trying to negate/control where the person on the bottom is being aggressive of the bottom looking for subs than that round should go to the person on the bottom.

The whole judging system needs a overhaul it encourages pure athletes to hold on from the top for dare life while weaker/more skilled fighters get killed by judges. Seriously I have seen fights where the guy from the bottom does more damage and still losses since the guy on top "had control". A takedown in the Octogon is almost worth more than life itself.

While I don't really like GSP as a fighter I do however acknowledge hes great at what he does and while I do think Nick Diaz is overall a slightly more skilled fighter, the problem for Diaz in the match up between the two is that GSP is also skilled enough to do very well against Nick but also possess insane athletic ability which just makes his an almost impossible fight @170.

Last edited by andremiller07 : 03-09-2013 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:44 AM   #3204
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Most of the UFC champs are exciting. Cain,Jones,Silva,Bendo, Aldo, Barao, even Mighty Mouse. Guys who try to get by just wrestle****ing end up being gatekeepers in the UFC. Which means guys are figuring out ways to beat them.

UFC is content in making guys who wrestle**** climb slowly up the ladder. Guys like Fitch, Guida, are gonna need to win 5+ fights in a row to get anyway near a title shot discussion in the UFC. While more exciting fighters get title shots pretty quickly. Dana White has made it known he wants to cut fighters and lay n pray fighters are at the top of his list.

I never understood Nick Diaz, for a guy who trains mma its puzzling for him to be so immature towards other styles. I get he wants fighters to play into game but he seems to skip the lesson of forcing fighters into your game. Nate Diaz got completely outclassed when he fought Bendo, He just stood there hoping Bendo would come into his range and fight him flat footed. I see the same for Diaz unless he learns how to force GSP into his game.

Last edited by DropStep : 03-09-2013 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:15 AM   #3205
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

as per ariel hellwani, it will be Mark Hunt vs Jds at Ufc 160 not sure how to react but I believe its a risky fight for JDS to take and a big oppurtunity for Hunt
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:59 AM   #3206
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErhnamDjinn
as per ariel hellwani, it will be Mark Hunt vs Jds at Ufc 160 not sure how to react but I believe its a risky fight for JDS to take and a big oppurtunity for Hunt

True interesting fight no doubt but I would have prefered JDS to wait for Reem and get Hunt to fight someone else. Both have shown good chins, but the speed advantage will go to JDS and the power I don't know tbh I don't know if Mark still has that same power he had in K1 (he can no doubt still smash you in 1 punch). I could see JDS throwing in a couple takedowns to put doubt into Hunts mind but I doubt he will lay n gay him.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:30 PM   #3207
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErhnamDjinn
as per ariel hellwani, it will be Mark Hunt vs Jds at Ufc 160 not sure how to react but I believe its a risky fight for JDS to take and a big oppurtunity for Hunt

Mark Hunt in the UFC HW title picture in 2013.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:45 PM   #3208
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

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Mark Hunt in the UFC HW title picture in 2013.

Shows how much the heavyweight division has fallen back to it's 2006 roots.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:15 PM   #3209
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brujesino
We have different thoughts of what a fight is.Also i dont give a shit if GSP or Nick is the better fighter because the way the rules are in MMA it doesnt matter, if they had pride rules then we would see who were the best fighters.

Pride scoring rules wouldn't change the outcome of any GSP fight (well, maybe Penn wins their match up). He absolutely dominates his opponents so what's the relevance for bringing that up?
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:37 PM   #3210
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by andremiller07
I just can't stand it when a fighter gets a take down and than "pretends" to work by throwing weak ass punches that do nothing and little shots to the body just because they don't want to be stood up while the guy from the bottom is doing everything to win by going for submissions & sweeps.

I don't think it's as bad as it used to be. If the guy on bottom is constantly going for subs and sweeps while the guy on top isn't really doing anything, then the guy on bottom is more likely to win the round than he would be in the past. Granted, they have to be legit attempts and he has to be outworking the guy on top. I don't think half-assed sub attempts that have 0 chance of doing anything should count that much. You think the guy on top should score big for a weak kimura attempt?

Quote:
The scoring system is so in favour of wrestlers its unreal, its basically like wrestlers are Kevin Durrant & James Harden getting every f&*king lame call while others get hammered and don't even get a whistle.

Well, you could say that's more a problem of the refs. If a ref is very slow to stand them up, then you can't really blame the wrestler too much. There's just so much inconsistency with the refs. One ref will let a guy lay on top while doing nothing for an entire round while another will quickly stand them up even though the guy on top is in side control and landing nice shots.

Quote:
while I do think Nick Diaz is overall a slightly more skilled fighter

Based on what? I don't know how anyone who has watched both fighters can say this. I'm not saying he can't win, but he just hasn't shown that much skill compared to GSP.
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