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Old 03-17-2013, 10:34 PM   #3346
AlphaWolf24
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by STATUTORY
sports going in the wrong direction

bring back pride rules


- Time Limits and Takedown points are ruining the sport....True Vale Tudo is about stopping your opponent.

- I remember watching open weight fights between great wrestlers vs great BJJ players in the beginning of American MMA ( early 90's)....

the bigger guys would take down their opponent at will and control position and do some damage from the mount position...

but they would still end up losing by being caught in a submission from a smaller BJJ fighter. ( the wrestler eventually made a mistake or gassed out)

- The funny part is...they created time limits to speed up action/make it possible for PPV to show the whole event.....but point fighting and the lack of urgency to finish makes it pointless.

- 2 men Fighting until the other one quits/can't fight/can't defend themselves....that's the essence of MMA/ultimate fighting/Vale tudo....scoring imaginary "signifigant strikes" and takedown points is turrable.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:01 PM   #3347
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24

- 2 men Fighting until the other one quits/can't fight/can't defend themselves....that's the essence of MMA/ultimate fighting/Vale tudo....scoring imaginary "signifigant strikes" and takedown points is turrable.
Thats something that is ****ing retarded with theses MMA stats.Look back a page and B-Low posted the stats where GSP had something like 80 "Significant Strikes" what? When was there any significant strikes in that entire fight by either fighter?Shit is stupid.
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:43 AM   #3348
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

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Originally Posted by andremiller07
MMA needs to change the scoring system, takedowns unless they do damage should be worth zero

No. Takedowns score in Greco-Roman, freestyle wrestling, Sambo, judo, BJJ, etc..., but you want to say they shouldn't score in MMA for no reason? If you want to say they should score less, then OK, I'll agree, but worth 0? Nah. When a person gets a takedown, then they end up in control, which is part of the scoring criteria, so do you want to do away with control, also? Also, I'll point out that the judges gave the 3rd round to Condit even though he was taken down 4 times and had 0 takedowns himself. I find it odd that many people seem to blame just the wrestler. What about the guy on bottom who isn't doing a damn thing?

They should allow knees to a downed opponent. That gives wrestlers another tool whenever their opponent tries to turtle up and goes into defense mode.

Also, GSP said that Nick was hard to hit, hard to control and had a really awkward style of BJJ that was really difficult to prepare for, but I guess everyone here complaining would go and sub Nick Diaz with ease, right?
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:53 AM   #3349
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

All I want is the 10 minute first round and yellow cards.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:16 AM   #3350
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

**** no to yellow cards. Watching some of those shitty Japanese refs hand out yellow cards like they were candy was a disgrace. A fighter is losing 10% of his purse for them. I don't like refs having the power to take away money from a fighter (imagine someone like Dan Miragliotta screwing some fighters out of money). Why have yellow cards when the ref can just give warnings and/or just do quicker stand ups?

10 minute first round? Wouldn't that just make people complain more about wrestling? Some refs let guys get away with doing the minimum on the ground so a guy could possibly stretch 1 takedown into a 10 minute humpfest. First, I'd like to see more consistency out of the refs and for them to get better training.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:53 AM   #3351
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

They need to eliminate elbows on the ground. It makes it more difficult for wrestlers to stall, and opens them up to more submissions when they posture to strike with the hands.

Elbows on the ground very rarely finish opponents, and often lead to cuts that stop the fight prematurely.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:24 AM   #3352
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdreason
They need to eliminate elbows on the ground. It makes it more difficult for wrestlers to stall, and opens them up to more submissions when they posture to strike with the hands.

Elbows on the ground very rarely finish opponents, and often lead to cuts that stop the fight prematurely.

Bones frowns at this idea.

How bout something completely left field, like injury time in soccer, if there is a period of little to no action and the ref makes the fighters stand up, that time is added back to the the end of the round. Dunno, just thinking out of the square.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:24 AM   #3353
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdreason
They need to eliminate elbows on the ground. It makes it more difficult for wrestlers to stall, and opens them up to more submissions when they posture to strike with the hands.

Elbows on the ground very rarely finish opponents, and often lead to cuts that stop the fight prematurely.
Lol that's something lot of Jon Jones haters wanted(not that you are one). Elbows are great for rocking the opponent and allowing you to advance position, they are quick and in fact do more damage than weakass hammerfists. Some use it just to cut and stop the fight, but most use it to finish.

There need to be more damaging moves, not less. Knees to a downed opponent should be legal, they are not much different than headkicks or knees from the clinch. Too many times have I seen someone get rocked, then just put his hand on the ground to avoid kicks/knees. While his opponent basically has to close in and only throw punches.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:59 AM   #3354
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

elbows allow cuts more easily which is why it helps wrestlers, they should revise the rule of knees to a grounded opponents head where in its legal if he is not on both knees, the rule where you cant knee just because the dude is using his fingers or hands to touch the mat is lame and just bending the rules of a grounded opponent. While Im not for soccer kicks and head stomps, I dislike the elbows also due to the cuts they create which leads to ref stoppages due to bleeding.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:56 AM   #3355
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErhnamDjinn
elbows allow cuts more easily which is why it helps wrestlers, they should revise the rule of knees to a grounded opponents head where in its legal if he is not on both knees, the rule where you cant knee just because the dude is using his fingers or hands to touch the mat is lame and just bending the rules of a grounded opponent. While Im not for soccer kicks and head stomps, I dislike the elbows also due to the cuts they create which leads to ref stoppages due to bleeding.


Cain vs Bigfoot I was a perfect example of how cuts can ruin a fight (not saying Bigfoot would have won), but that cut on around his nose area just bleed into his eyes and he had to fight literally blind and got masscared for it. That's the only reason why I'm not a big fan of elbows, they are extremely nasty when pulled off tho.

Plus why would a fighter want to win via cut anyway? The fans don't want to see it nor do I think any fighter wants to win via cutting someone it leaves to many questions and we don't know what could have happend.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:01 AM   #3356
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackass18
No. Takedowns score in Greco-Roman, freestyle wrestling, Sambo, judo, BJJ, etc..., but you want to say they shouldn't score in MMA for no reason? If you want to say they should score less, then OK, I'll agree, but worth 0? Nah. When a person gets a takedown, then they end up in control, which is part of the scoring criteria, so do you want to do away with control, also? Also, I'll point out that the judges gave the 3rd round to Condit even though he was taken down 4 times and had 0 takedowns himself. I find it odd that many people seem to blame just the wrestler. What about the guy on bottom who isn't doing a damn thing?

Ok fair enough lower the scoring but than why not award fighters points for getting up when someones trying to control them on the ground as well? Would that not also be considered "control" since your actually choosing where the fight goes? Thats a part of wrestling as well is it not to get out from being on the bottom. I just think something needs to be done because atm people with a wrestling base are way to heavily favoured when it comes to judging and BJJ guys are completely raped by the scoring system and strikers to a lesser degree.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:54 AM   #3357
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by andremiller07
Cain vs Bigfoot I was a perfect example of how cuts can ruin a fight (not saying Bigfoot would have won), but that cut on around his nose area just bleed into his eyes and he had to fight literally blind and got masscared for it. That's the only reason why I'm not a big fan of elbows, they are extremely nasty when pulled off tho.

Plus why would a fighter want to win via cut anyway? The fans don't want to see it nor do I think any fighter wants to win via cutting someone it leaves to many questions and we don't know what could have happend.
yup this was exactly the fight I was about to mention that changed the fight, also Kenny Florian specifically gameplanned before to do this and cause cuts, it limits the options of BJJ guys from the bottom. Also take down cant be scored .5 or something because it becomes subjective, I mean what will they define at a takedown with no damage. But I do agree its to easy for wrestlers to score on takedowns, maybe they should also consider submission attempts from the ground of your back in order to balance it out.

I also do believe if there is non advancement of position for a set amount of time maybe 30 seconds its should be a automatic standup.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:23 AM   #3358
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Thing is this not a sport really, its a real fight, it started that way, they didnt even have gloves or weight limits back in the days, almost no rules... its as real as it legally gets, MMA today is basically a real fight with even more initiated rules to become legal for viewing (and hence making more money), it only looks more like a sport.......

With that being said just like in a real fight wrestling/taking your opponent down is the most powerful/advantageous aspect...... in any random brawl outside with a stranger you will quickly find out that you can be even Bruce Lee standing up and meet a guy who doesnt even know how to punch but if his wrestling is better and especially accompanied with premier BJJ then either you are going to sleep and/or have a broken limb and/or have a screwed face due ground n pound..........

If you want two guys just throwing hands and/or hands&legs at eachother then watch Boxing or Kickboxing... but remember, none of that is anywhere close to real fighting, especially not Boxing....
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:39 AM   #3359
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackass18
No. Takedowns score in Greco-Roman, freestyle wrestling, Sambo, judo, BJJ, etc..., but you want to say they shouldn't score in MMA for no reason? If you want to say they should score less, then OK, I'll agree, but worth 0? Nah. When a person gets a takedown, then they end up in control, which is part of the scoring criteria, so do you want to do away with control, also? Also, I'll point out that the judges gave the 3rd round to Condit even though he was taken down 4 times and had 0 takedowns himself. I find it odd that many people seem to blame just the wrestler. What about the guy on bottom who isn't doing a damn thing?

They should allow knees to a downed opponent. That gives wrestlers another tool whenever their opponent tries to turtle up and goes into defense mode.

Also, GSP said that Nick was hard to hit, hard to control and had a really awkward style of BJJ that was really difficult to prepare for, but I guess everyone here complaining would go and sub Nick Diaz with ease, right?

this is MMA not wrestling, the goal of a fight is not to pin the other guy but to end the match or damage the opponent to a point where the ref needs to stop it. A takedown puts you in a position where you can easier leverage your ability to damage the other guy but it by itself is not actually an offensive manuever, it only can advance your chances to win conditional on you being active while in the guard.

This is why yellow cards to deter stalling or judges being more educated about the sport and stopping rewarding the top guy LnPing with decisions is a necessity. too much of this bs throwing short elbows that do nothing but give the appearance of activity bullshit.

Get rid of elbows, it's not in the spirit of martial arts and is exploited to prevent action. in lull of elbows, the same space the guy on top would need to throw a punch is what the guy on bottom needs for a submission. WIthout elbows the game would be brought back to a balance instead of this Greg Jackson wrestling/jabbing point fest we see today.

oh and institute soccer kicks and knees on the ground again.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:17 PM   #3360
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
Thing is this not a sport really, its a real fight, it started that way, they didnt even have gloves or weight limits back in the days, almost no rules... its as real as it legally gets, MMA today is basically a real fight with even more initiated rules to become legal for viewing (and hence making more money), it only looks more like a sport.......

With that being said just like in a real fight wrestling/taking your opponent down is the most powerful/advantageous aspect...... in any random brawl outside with a stranger you will quickly find out that you can be even Bruce Lee standing up and meet a guy who doesnt even know how to punch but if his wrestling is better and especially accompanied with premier BJJ then either you are going to sleep and/or have a broken limb and/or have a screwed face due ground n pound..........

If you want two guys just throwing hands and/or hands&legs at eachother then watch Boxing or Kickboxing... but remember, none of that is anywhere close to real fighting, especially not Boxing....


- No it's not!...bieng able to fight anyhwere is the best advantage. ( heck...why would you want to close distance in a streetfight anyways?)

- Gracie Jujitsu proved to the world.....With great technique....even bieng on the bottom you can make your opponent quit/hurt your opponent so he/she cannot fight......or choke your opponent unconsious.

- many times....the smaller weaker opponent is going to be on the bottom anyways( in a "real fight")

- It's not about wanting to watch guy's just Strike / brawl on thier feet....it's about wanting to see 2 guys try and make thier opponent unable to continue to Fight!!!

in a timed match....ending the Fight has to be the main goal.....not scoring points via having better position/stalling to avoid damage...

If you get in a better position....at least have a passion to try to end the fight.....it has to be this way in TIMED match...or else what is the point? ( wich fighter can take the least damage in 15 minutes?......wich fighter can be on top for 15 minutes?....wich fighter can jab the most times?)

-

Last edited by AlphaWolf24 : 03-18-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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