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Old 07-07-2013, 05:08 AM   #3886
Graviton
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Found some actual analysis of the fight and it actually makes more sense than "Silva got too cocky". We always blame the fighter and ignore the good coaching that the opponent receives and capitalized on.

"Now the end of the fight. Silva throws a crescent kick and then switches his stance. Silva then steps his lead/left foot back so that he is nearly square with Weidman but not completely square. This induces Weidman to begin throwing punches at Silva's head which he slips. Silva then steps back with his right foot to move out of range. Weidman steps in at a sharp angle to square Silva's feet again while he throws the fight ending left hook. Silva goes down and Weidman finishes.

So my analysis of the end of the fight is that Silva was executing his game plan/style exactly as he wanted and Weidman cut an excellent angle and caught him on the end of a pretty standard left hook. It wasn't a devastating shot, just a well placed punch on an opponent whose feet were square. Every boxing coach in the world will tell you that if you catch a guy with his feet square, he's going down. The reason for this is that you are unable to roll with the punch and absorb the force in your hips and legs as you rotate with the punch. Silva is able to keep his feet square against the cage because the fence acts as a spring which lets you roll through a punch in the same way that the far leg does in open space.

If you watch the replay of the end of the fight, the punch that Silva slips before the hook is more like a flipping back fist than a jab. Weidman was clearly coached well on the situation and knew that he needed to square up with Silva. He deserves a lot of credit for regaining his composure in the second round and fighting an excellent technical fight. Anderson, on the other hand, made a minor technical error. He stayed in the slipping position for too long and allowed Weidman to recognize the situation. Had he simply circled away from the cage after the first barrage of punches and reestablished his stance, we would be talking about a different ending although not necessarily a different victor. Kudos to Weidman on exploiting the kind of small mistake that Silva has spent years exploiting. Great fight. I hope this made sense."
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:16 AM   #3887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graviton
Found some actual analysis of the fight and it actually makes more sense than "Silva got too cocky". We always blame the fighter and ignore the good coaching that the opponent receives and capitalized on.

"Now the end of the fight. Silva throws a crescent kick and then switches his stance. Silva then steps his lead/left foot back so that he is nearly square with Weidman but not completely square. This induces Weidman to begin throwing punches at Silva's head which he slips. Silva then steps back with his right foot to move out of range. Weidman steps in at a sharp angle to square Silva's feet again while he throws the fight ending left hook. Silva goes down and Weidman finishes.

So my analysis of the end of the fight is that Silva was executing his game plan/style exactly as he wanted and Weidman cut an excellent angle and caught him on the end of a pretty standard left hook. It wasn't a devastating shot, just a well placed punch on an opponent whose feet were square. Every boxing coach in the world will tell you that if you catch a guy with his feet square, he's going down. The reason for this is that you are unable to roll with the punch and absorb the force in your hips and legs as you rotate with the punch. Silva is able to keep his feet square against the cage because the fence acts as a spring which lets you roll through a punch in the same way that the far leg does in open space.

If you watch the replay of the end of the fight, the punch that Silva slips before the hook is more like a flipping back fist than a jab. Weidman was clearly coached well on the situation and knew that he needed to square up with Silva. He deserves a lot of credit for regaining his composure in the second round and fighting an excellent technical fight. Anderson, on the other hand, made a minor technical error. He stayed in the slipping position for too long and allowed Weidman to recognize the situation. Had he simply circled away from the cage after the first barrage of punches and reestablished his stance, we would be talking about a different ending although not necessarily a different victor. Kudos to Weidman on exploiting the kind of small mistake that Silva has spent years exploiting. Great fight. I hope this made sense."

very interesting and the sort of stuff i seek. not sold that weidman was completely aware of the angle, but he certainly stepped in when silva's feet became planted. then silva just put his chin up there with his mouth slightly open and it was lights out. gotta give credit for weidman taking advantage but just how much of that was recognized in live action and put into immediate strategy will be hard to tell.

i do think weidman is legit. thought that for a while tbh but the hype train started going real fast so i wasn't really vocal about it.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:18 AM   #3888
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Default Re: MMA Discussion/News thread

Silva was too cocky, and Weidman was prepared for it. I certainly give Weidman credit. Many fighters get mesmerized/confused by such stuff and they get taken out of their game, but Weidman didn't. Well, he did say he got a bit frustrated, but he kept his head on straight and went after it. He said Silva kept on talking and he wanted to shut him up.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:19 AM   #3889
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Originally Posted by ClutchOver9000
Silva is retarded then. Needed a loss mentally? So losing by brutal KO so he doesnt have to fight title fights anymore makes better sense to him than to beat Weidman and then retiring? What's so unfortunate from his perspective is I think its a safe bet he would've beat Weidman had he not goofed around like an idiot...oh well.

Jon Jones = new p4p best...

Honestly, just like Kenny Florian said on twitter, I just think he didn't want the weight of defending his belt on his shoulders anymore. He said he has a 10 fight contract and that he wants to continue to fight, but just for the love it of it, in non-title fights now...

I think he was really getting into Weidman's head after he stuffed a takedown and starting clowning at the end of the 1st and in the 2nd...Weidman was hesitant to throw, was missing most of his punches when he did decide to throw, and he stopped going for takedowns completely...I feel like Andy could have gone loco on him then and beat his ass but it never happened...oh well.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:24 AM   #3890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graviton
"...Anderson, on the other hand, made a minor technical error. He stayed in the slipping position for too long and allowed Weidman to recognize the situation. Had he simply circled away from the cage after the first barrage of punches and reestablished his stance, we would be talking about a different ending although not necessarily a different victor."
that's really the part that matters IMO.

- weidman is taller than silva
- weidman has longer reach than silva IIRC
- squaring up with another fighter, hands down, only looking to dodge, is pretty obviously terrible strategy
- doing this against a wrestler, a legit challenger, and a taller man is downright ludicrous


one big issue i have with the silva - diaz comparisons is that diaz does what he does to take fighters out their rhythms, while anderson does it to set up his counter-punching. but, honestly, nick does more with what he has. anderson tried to take the strategy to absurd heights, beyond where it would pragmatically function.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:24 AM   #3891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strike first
Sorry I'm not buying all that BS he spewed. Dude should win an emmy for that acting he did in the post fight interview.

He fought the same way he always fights but he got caught. Its not a lack of heart or that hes burned out. Hes done that same IDGAF dance bullshit for years, but this time het got KO'd.

Only reason he said hes done fighting is cuz hes BUTTHURT.

He'll be back I bet

He didn't say that he's done fighting, he said he wants to continue fighting out his 10 fight contract, but not for the belt at all anymore. Who knows, maybe he is crying with the Nog brothers and Feijao right now, regretting what he did, and vowing never to make that mistake again and plotting his revenge, or perhaps he is completely relieved, sitting on a couch with his wife and his kids on his lap watching tv.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:30 AM   #3892
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I think Vitor beats Chris. I think Bisping gives him a great fight too.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:33 AM   #3893
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Anyone else think GSP is in for a rude awakening against Hendricks? Hendricks has great power and good wrestling. GSP has been looking like a very old 32 year old fighter.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:37 AM   #3894
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Originally Posted by Bobcats2013
Anyone else think GSP is in for a rude awakening against Hendricks? Hendricks has great power and good wrestling. GSP has been looking like a very old 32 year old fighter.
Yep GSP is done, it has already been decided by Fate.

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/...oster-1429135/
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:39 AM   #3895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graviton
Found some actual analysis of the fight and it actually makes more sense than "Silva got too cocky". We always blame the fighter and ignore the good coaching that the opponent receives and capitalized on.

"Now the end of the fight. Silva throws a crescent kick and then switches his stance. Silva then steps his lead/left foot back so that he is nearly square with Weidman but not completely square. This induces Weidman to begin throwing punches at Silva's head which he slips. Silva then steps back with his right foot to move out of range. Weidman steps in at a sharp angle to square Silva's feet again while he throws the fight ending left hook. Silva goes down and Weidman finishes.

So my analysis of the end of the fight is that Silva was executing his game plan/style exactly as he wanted and Weidman cut an excellent angle and caught him on the end of a pretty standard left hook. It wasn't a devastating shot, just a well placed punch on an opponent whose feet were square. Every boxing coach in the world will tell you that if you catch a guy with his feet square, he's going down. The reason for this is that you are unable to roll with the punch and absorb the force in your hips and legs as you rotate with the punch. Silva is able to keep his feet square against the cage because the fence acts as a spring which lets you roll through a punch in the same way that the far leg does in open space.

If you watch the replay of the end of the fight, the punch that Silva slips before the hook is more like a flipping back fist than a jab. Weidman was clearly coached well on the situation and knew that he needed to square up with Silva. He deserves a lot of credit for regaining his composure in the second round and fighting an excellent technical fight. Anderson, on the other hand, made a minor technical error. He stayed in the slipping position for too long and allowed Weidman to recognize the situation. Had he simply circled away from the cage after the first barrage of punches and reestablished his stance, we would be talking about a different ending although not necessarily a different victor. Kudos to Weidman on exploiting the kind of small mistake that Silva has spent years exploiting. Great fight. I hope this made sense."

You're actually able to roll with a left hook much better in a squared stance(or even more so in a southpaw stance) than if you are standing orthodox and you're actually facing the left hook that's coming and get hit.

Honestly, I think it was as simple as Weidman getting closer than Andy was expecting, and him throwing one more punch than Andy was expecting. You can tell by the way Andy's head moved when he got hit that he wasn't really expecting it, he was relaxed, and it turned his lights off. I don't think Chris meant to really hurt him with that punch.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:28 AM   #3896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigantes
that's really the part that matters IMO.

- weidman is taller than silva
- weidman has longer reach than silva IIRC
- squaring up with another fighter, hands down, only looking to dodge, is pretty obviously terrible strategy
- doing this against a wrestler, a legit challenger, and a taller man is downright ludicrous


one big issue i have with the silva - diaz comparisons is that diaz does what he does to take fighters out their rhythms, while anderson does it to set up his counter-punching. but, honestly, nick does more with what he has. anderson tried to take the strategy to absurd heights, beyond where it would pragmatically function.

ehh..while i do think the latter of what you say is true, silva has somewhat used it to his advantage. i think he has effectively timed fighters and taken them out of their game, almost discouraging them. he just did it against the wrong opponent. i think nick does it more because he's hard headed. nick will do it even if he's four rounds deep and losing. andy was just impractical in that he should have realized that weidman was not the guy to do that against. for all the crazy ass hype that sounded like a record player, weidman was a serious threat obviously.

this wasn't even a personal war so i found it kinda odd that silva didn't even want to touch gloves at the start. weidman was confident, even probably rubbed ppl the wrong way, but you have to be that way to beat a champ. weidman even showboated a bit in his own way standing up...it was definitely a strange beginning. he was looking forward for this fight for a while and silva even said he was not worthy at one point so he waited. that's not to slight silva...it's a money making sport so you wait to hype it up.

Last edited by blacknapalm : 07-07-2013 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:31 AM   #3897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook00
He didn't say that he's done fighting, he said he wants to continue fighting out his 10 fight contract, but not for the belt at all anymore. Who knows, maybe he is crying with the Nog brothers and Feijao right now, regretting what he did, and vowing never to make that mistake again and plotting his revenge, or perhaps he is completely relieved, sitting on a couch with his wife and his kids on his lap watching tv.

problem is he said he doesn't want title fights and dana made it clear any near superfight is off the table. a rematch entails a title fight so i don't see how andy thinks he can fight several more fights w/out one. you don't just go from being called a potential GOAT to fighting mid-card guys again. i think silva will take the rematch. it's afforded to him but his response is just odd considering he agreed to his latest contract w/in the last year. i'll have to agree w/ dana for once and say he's not used to losing so he doesn't really know how to deal w/ it. he won't be as foolish next fight.

Last edited by blacknapalm : 07-07-2013 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:05 AM   #3898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknapalm
ehh..while i do think the latter of what you say is true, silva has somewhat used it to his advantage. i think he has effectively timed fighters and taken them out of their game, almost discouraging them...
my good man, i don't think there's any question about it! fact is there is overlap in their styles, but still more differences than similarities IMO.

i do think silva's opponent disruption is more a by-product of his taunting and elusiveness rather than the object. his real object as i see it is to time out his opponent over the first round or so, get them to lunging, and then KO them with weapon of choice at the moment of his choosing.

nick's plan shares the object of getting the opponent flummoxed and disheartened, but his main idea is very different. he wants to win the fight by being the aggressor, getting the opponent reacting to all the wrong things... making more and more basic mistakes... and getting too tired, damaged and confused to compete effectively in the end.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:12 AM   #3899
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I pretty much stopped watching MMA after being a hardcore fan (watched every UFC/Pride), when they put in the nonsense of the women's division and recently saw a clip of the Herman vs. Gonzaga fight (lasted 17secs).

I can't understand for the life of me how
a). Herman got to the UFC
b). Was not cut A LONG TIME ago
c). How anyone could sanction him to fight the way he does
d). Never in my life in fighting have I seen the bigger idiot at the highest level of the sport.

The dude is basically asking for anyone to KO him, the dude keep's his chin higher and head more straight up than any fighter in history. Fighters like Herman make the sport look shit.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:51 AM   #3900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknapalm
problem is he said he doesn't want title fights and dana made it clear any near superfight is off the table. a rematch entails a title fight so i don't see how andy thinks he can fight several more fights w/out one. you don't just go from being called a potential GOAT to fighting mid-card guys again. i think silva will take the rematch. it's afforded to him but his response is just odd considering he agreed to his latest contract w/in the last year. i'll have to agree w/ dana for once and say he's not used to losing so he doesn't really know how to deal w/ it. he won't be as foolish next fight.

I thought maybe it was his emotions after the fight, but here's an interview from a couple days ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDWJEWVhANg
Skip to about 5:00

Still though, Dana could possibly talk him into it and I'm sure he'll try.

Last edited by Jackass18 : 07-07-2013 at 10:06 AM.
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