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Old 12-13-2006, 05:27 AM   #31
Xplicit
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The taller you are, the better you'll see the field. It's simple physics, really... If Troy Smith was 6'5", he'd be the #1 overall pick hands down.

And John Elway wasn't the exception. Tons of QBs that played for 2nd rate programs get drafted in the first round because of their size. Drew Bledsoe, Steve McNair, Byron Leftwich, just to name a few. If anything, short QBS who succeeded in the NFL like Steve Young were the exception...

All the top QBs in the game right now (minus Drew Brees) are 6'4, 6'5... Manning, Palmer, Hasselbeck, all the prototype-QBs in the league... even the great QBs of yesteryear.. Marino, Elway, Aikman, Jim Kelly, list goes on..
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:32 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by PleezeBelieve
Are you dudes just talkin out of your ass becasue you don't know any better or what?

WHAT THE F*CK MAKES BRADY QUINN ANY MORE OF A FRANCHISE QB THAN TROY SMITH WHEN TROY SMITH HAS NOT ONLY OUT-PLAYED HIM HEAD-TO-HEAD, BUT AGAINST COMMON OPPONENTS AS WELL?

because he's more of a prototypical NFL QB. Big, strong arm, has experience running a prostyle offense with a pro style coach. It has little to do with what they did in college. WTF did Jay Cutler do in college? Carson Palmer was about to be considered a bust in college until his last year when he tore it up. GMs like to stick with their prototypes when they are drafting QBs in the first round. It has little to do with race, otherwise explain Byron Leftwich being a top 10 pick and Danny Wuerfell not. Byron=big, strong arm, good pocket presence. Wuerfell=incredible college career, Heisman, put up crazy stats, but he's a midget with a questionable arm.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:54 AM   #33
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i think either mcfadden or slaton should be number 1 pick. adrian petterson is the man when healthy though
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:14 PM   #34
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Part of it is skin color, part of it is height, and part of it is Ohio State's offense versus Notre Dame's offense. Notre Dame runs a pro style offense while OSU does not.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PleezeBelieve
See, these are the type of parrots that I'm talking about. He's automatically associating Troy with Vick, and I don't know why? Troy is a pocket passer that threw for 30 touchdowns with a 67% completition rate on damn near 300 pass attempts.

And the fact he's even using Alex Smith as an example of someone who's supposedly more NFL ready than Troy is absurd and negates me from taking him serious from here on out.

Your right he is a passer, but he's not a pocket passer, he will move if he has to instead of step up. Vick does the same, I'm sorry that comparing Troy Smith to Michael Vick, one of the most feared player in the league, upsets you, but I'm still taking Quinn over Smith.

I put Alex Smith for two reasons, one he's a good example a QB who can run, and is very mobile with the PA Rollouts, and can throw well on the run (unless it's to Vernon Davis against the Packs). And he is going to be better than most give him credit for. Niners fans are looking for his head to roll, but he's got a lot of talent. Just wait, people, Gore, Smith, and Davis are going to lead us back into the glory days.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:48 PM   #36
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Race has little to do with it. If Quinn was black he would still ho high as he is projected now. Drew Brees dropped to the 2nd round because of his height. Akilli Smith went high because of his size. See the pattern dipshyt? You can sit there and argue like the groupie/homer you are that Troy is better than Quinn but its irrelevant considering the history on how QBs are drafted. Has nothing to do with race. Lots of black QBs go early. Vince Young went before Matt Lienart the goldenboy. And only a few people had Jay Cutler ranked ahead of Vince and it had everything to do with workouts.

This aint a black white thing. Its a HEIGHT/SIZE thing.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:53 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB

This aint a black white thing. Its a HEIGHT/SIZE thing.

And in case you people haven't noticed. There are going to be a lot more black QB's because that position is beggining to appeal to the black athletes.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by **** Biggly
because he's more of a prototypical NFL QB. Big, strong arm, has experience running a prostyle offense with a pro style coach. It has little to do with what they did in college. WTF did Jay Cutler do in college? Carson Palmer was about to be considered a bust in college until his last year when he tore it up. GMs like to stick with their prototypes when they are drafting QBs in the first round. It has little to do with race, otherwise explain Byron Leftwich being a top 10 pick and Danny Wuerfell not. Byron=big, strong arm, good pocket presence. Wuerfell=incredible college career, Heisman, put up crazy stats, but he's a midget with a questionable arm.
1. What do you mean by prototypical? I certainly hope you don't mean the strict pocket passers of yesteryear? If anything, scouts are looking for someone to be mobile and have the ability to make plays outside of the pocket. That's more prototypical of a NFL QB, so what's your point?

2. Why are you telling me about strong arm when Troy has just as much, if not more, of a stronger arm? Next.

3. Experience running a prostyle offense? Experience from running the offense under the center, right? I find this one laughable. I guess that didn't hurt Couch, Carr, and Alex Smith stock cause all those dudes never ran a pro-style offense in college, and yet, all of them were the #1 pick.

4. If anything, Carson Palmer is one of the few names we've mentioned that was deserving of the #1 pick (and he still had questions about his consistency). At least he had the so-called phyical tools and performed at an elite level vs. elite competition (just like Troy). Brady Quinn hasn't done that.

5. Lastly, why do are you dudes trying to compare Troy to these gimmick Heisman QB's? None of my points are based on the fact he won the Heisman or may possibly win the championshp , so why am I continually seeing names like Wuerfull and Flutie? Troy is by far a bettter NFL prospect than either of those guys, so let's keep those names out of the conversation.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:01 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
And in case you people haven't noticed. There are going to be a lot more black QB's because that position is beggining to appeal to the black athletes.

Yeah but the black QB better be able to THROW. Case in point? Reggie Ball from Gtech. He'll never make it as a QB. Best chance of getting to the NFL is to change positions.

One thing that i found interesting is the Jags QB depth chart is all black QBs while they have a white #1 WR.

Last Clevland Browns better draft Troy Smith.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:04 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Race has little to do with it. If Quinn was black he would still ho high as he is projected now. Drew Brees dropped to the 2nd round because of his height. Akilli Smith went high because of his size. See the pattern dipshyt? You can sit there and argue like the groupie/homer you are that Troy is better than Quinn but its irrelevant considering the history on how QBs are drafted. Has nothing to do with race. Lots of black QBs go early. Vince Young went before Matt Lienart the goldenboy. And only a few people had Jay Cutler ranked ahead of Vince and it had everything to do with workouts.

This aint a black white thing. Its a HEIGHT/SIZE thing.
Your Brees comparison is not valid. he also had questions about his arm strength and ability to make plays outside the pocket. And regardless, he's a success in the league, so you're just proving my point, idiot.

What does the abituary slection of Akili Smith have to do with anything? If anything, the debate about whether he or Couch should have been the #1 pick further validates my point because Akili had Couch beat on just about everyone else's draft board due to his more advance physical tools, but yet, Couch was the #1 pick. So what's your point?
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:04 PM   #41
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Brady Quinn is one of the most overrated college prospects coming out in a LONG time. He padded his stats against crap competition(dont buy the hype that the play a tough schedule, they have never beaten a team that finished the year ranked in weiss' tenure) and he has struggled every time hes played a good team. As for smith hes not 6-1. Hes between 5-11 and 6-0. Anyone who passes on adrian peterson will be making a HUGE mistake. BTW to the poster who said something about mcfadden or slaton neither can come out this year, they are both true sophmores and taking slaton over Peterson would just be stupid. Slaton is overrated. Any really fast rb that plays with a great running qb in the spread offense is going to look great. (see Jamaal Charles with and without vince young) Mcfadden is a beast though.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:06 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Yeah but the black QB better be able to THROW. Case in point? Reggie Ball from Gtech. He'll never make it as a QB. Best chance of getting to the NFL is to change positions.

One thing that i found interesting is the Jags QB depth chart is all black QBs while they have a white #1 WR.

Last Clevland Browns better draft Troy Smith.
Why should the Browns draft him and not the team with the #1 pick?
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:10 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Brady Quinn is one of the most overrated college prospects coming out in a LONG time. He padded his stats against crap competition(dont buy the hype that the play a tough schedule, they have never beaten a team that finished the year ranked in weiss' tenure) and he has struggled every time hes played a good team. As for smith hes not 6-1. Hes between 5-11 and 6-0. Anyone who passes on adrian peterson will be making a HUGE mistake. BTW to the poster who said something about mcfadden or slaton neither can come out this year, they are both true sophmores and taking slaton over Peterson would just be stupid. Slaton is overrated. Any really fast rb that plays with a great running qb in the spread offense is going to look great. (see Jamaal Charles with and without vince young) Mcfadden is a beast though.
Troy Smith is listed at 6-1 but probably is closer to 6-0, not 5-11. Just like Quinn is listed at 6-4, but probably is closer to 6-3. But what difference does it make, or the better question, should make, particularly if the player is mobile with a good arm?
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:13 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PleezeBelieve
Troy Smith is listed at 6-1 but probably is closer to 6-0, not 5-11. Just like Quinn is listed at 6-4, but probably is closer to 6-3. But what difference does it make, or the better question, should make, particularly if the player is mobile with a good arm?
I think smith is very good but for every little qb that was successful i can point out a little qb that was good in college and struggled in the pros. I dont see the comparison of smith to vick because as it stands now, smiths best physical attribute is his arm/accuracy which vicks only attributes are his wheels and the fact that he can throw the ball a long way even if he doesnt know where its going. Personally Im not 100% sold on either of them but i like smith alot more than quinn. That said i would take adrian over either of them.

edit- on the heights just about everyone loses an inch when they get measured for the draft and troy smith will be lucky to measure at 6-0. He needs to wear thick socks.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:17 PM   #45
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....and another thing, I'm not really tying to challenge the idea that teams wouldn't perfer a taller QB that has NFL skills vs. a shorter one, but I'm just saying just becasue Quinn is taller doesn't negate the fact he has questions as well. Overall, if you look Troy's resume compared to Quinn's, Troy wins hands down. So if Troy gets knocked down to the bottom of the first round based on height, then why shouldn't Quinn be drafted in the same area as Smith based on his poor big game showings? Nobody is really trying to tackle that question, huh?
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