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Old 04-29-2014, 04:52 PM   #5071
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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this thread is nerdy as ***
No shit
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:44 PM   #5072
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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this thread is nerdy as ***
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:53 PM   #5073
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

the scenes between Jamie and Brienne jumped right out of the book for me, even the changes to their dialogue seems to be for the better.

"Oathkeeper"

hit me in all the right spots, jamie is just so handsome. so easy to like
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:56 PM   #5074
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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this thread is nerdy as ***
As... ass?

Trying to figure out what three-letter curse word would apply, here. I guess that's nerdy of me.

Nerdy as... ?
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:05 AM   #5075
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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Dothraki are overrated dumbasses that would get slaughtered by any normal Westerosi army. Robert never met any so he has now knowledge of how incompetent they really are. He only heard stories about them.

I am quite sure that it is going to be much more complicated than "The Others are so so evil, everyone run to Essos". Lately I have become much more appreciative of various variations of The Others + Starks vs Targs + dragons and shit like this. I think that the reason GRRM does not expand on Stark history at all is their ancient and very close tie to the Others.

Braavos can't take on Westeros alone. Sure they could murder leaders, but there will always be their sons and united Westeros would crush Braavos even counting the strenght of Braavosi navy. And of course, the other Free Cities would not be happy with Braavos gaining more power either.

I too agree the dothraki have been overrated. 99% of their victories come over the "lamb men"

They are great warriors but their refusal to use strategy and armor would hurt them.

Eg. Jorah's fight, where the dothraki arhk was blocked by his armor and then he killed the dothraki.
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:22 AM   #5076
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20 thousand of them would probably beat 50,000 anything else if only because 100% of them are on horseback and live to fight. 20000 of them is a calvary of 20000. Not 5000 on horse and 15000 on foot like you would face vs anyone else.

They lost charging an unsullied line over and over but thats a slave army of impossible discipline defending walls.

Not a bunch of farmers with pitch forks in an open field.

20,000 mounted knights would beat an equal number of Dothraki but nobody has that many.

But...they cant get their horses across the narrow sea either. They breed huge endless herds. You would never take over their lands. Its just endless grass without castles. Nothing could take over the Dothraki.

But they cant take over the West either. Cant get their main advantage across the sea.
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:40 AM   #5077
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

weak episode, too much and no heads rolling, step it up
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:47 AM   #5078
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
20 thousand of them would probably beat 50,000 anything else if only because 100% of them are on horseback and live to fight. 20000 of them is a calvary of 20000. Not 5000 on horse and 15000 on foot like you would face vs anyone else.

They lost charging an unsullied line over and over but thats a slave army of impossible discipline defending walls.

Not a bunch of farmers with pitch forks in an open field.

20,000 mounted knights would beat an equal number of Dothraki but nobody has that many.

But...they cant get their horses across the narrow sea either. They breed huge endless herds. You would never take over their lands. Its just endless grass without castles. Nothing could take over the Dothraki.

But they cant take over the West either. Cant get their main advantage across the sea.
No, no, no. Medieval war is not Total War, where Cavalry >>>> everything else.

Well formed infantry formations supported by ranged weapons have won countless medieval battles. Westerosi military is precisely that. Contrary to popular belief, medieval feudal armies were not made of peasants with pitchforks, but mostly well equipped professionals. This is matched by descriptions of Westerosi armies in the text. They are not peasants. They are well trained men armed with quality steel and ranged weapons, wearing everything from gambesons and mail to plate armor, lot of them veterans of Robert's and Balon's rebellions. Just read the description of the battle at Green Fork.

And Dothraki are not even a medieval force. They are a proto light cavalry with no armor, slashing arakhs as a main weapon and no sense of tactics or firm structure of command. Half of them would be dead from arrow volleys before they would even reach the enemy and the rest would cut itself to pieces on the pikes of the first pike square they would ride into. You don't even need heavy cavalry to counter those idiots and slaughter them. Not to mention that once you kill the khal, they will disintegrate.

Last edited by Trollsmasher : 04-30-2014 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:25 AM   #5079
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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Originally Posted by Trollsmasher
No, no, no. Medieval war is not Total War, where Cavalry >>>> everything else.

Well formed infantry formations supported by ranged weapons have won countless medieval battles. Westerosi military is precisely that. Contrary to popular belief, medieval feudal armies were not made of peasants with pitchforks, but mostly well equipped professionals. This is matched by descriptions of Westerosi armies in the text. They are not peasants. They are well trained men armed with quality steel and ranged weapons, wearing everything from gambesons and mail to plate armor, lot of them veterans of Robert's and Balon's rebellions. Just read the description of the battle at Green Fork.

And Dothraki are not even a medieval force. They are a proto light cavalry with no armor, slashing arakhs as a main weapon and no sense of tactics or firm structure of command. Half of them would be dead from arrow volleys before they would even reach the enemy and the rest would cut itself to pieces on the pikes of the first pike square they would ride into. You don't even need heavy cavalry to counter those idiots and slaughter them. Not to mention that once you kill the khal, they will disintegrate.

The Dothraki are essentially just the Mongols. The Mongols faced professional medieval armies a couple of times and absolutely annihilated them. They killed Russia's main army to the last man in the 1220s and in the 1240s they destroyed the Hungarian army and sacked their entire kingdom killing 20% of the population.

Both times with small, auxiliary (scouting) forces rather than with their main army.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:32 AM   #5080
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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Originally Posted by LJJ
The Dothraki are essentially just the Mongols. The Mongols faced professional medieval armies a couple of times and absolutely annihilated them. They killed Russia's main army to the last man in the 1220s and in the 1240s they destroyed the Hungarian army and sacked their entire kingdom killing 20% of the population.

Both times with small, auxiliary (scouting) forces rather than with their main army.
but the in textual evidence suggest dotharki are like a cartoon 'tard version of mongols

mongols utilized artilery and siege weaponry constructed by defected engineers etc and were tactic geniuses

the dothraki exhibit none of those traits.

it's a false equivocation. GRRM did intend dothraki to resemble the mongols but he presented a very skewed and caricatured version of them
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:46 AM   #5081
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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Originally Posted by LJJ
The Dothraki are essentially just the Mongols. The Mongols faced professional medieval armies a couple of times and absolutely annihilated them. They killed Russia's main army to the last man in the 1220s and in the 1240s they destroyed the Hungarian army and sacked their entire kingdom killing 20% of the population.

Both times with small, auxiliary (scouting) forces rather than with their main army.
Comparing Dothraki to Mongols is an insult to the military greatness of Mongols (and I am not even a particular fan of them).

Mongols employed advanced tactics, heavy cavalry, advanced command and army structure and most importantly ARMOR. There is a reason armor existed, even though most people today apparently think it is useless and you can slash through it with sword or shoot it through with an arrow anytime you want. Dothraki ride into the battle basically NAKED.

They were also capable of quick learning as they used anything and anyone (for example French trebuchets build by Persian engineers) that made them better. Dothraki on the other are a bunch of backwater racists that think everyone is inferior to them when it comes to war.

If GRRM intended to make a Dothraki into force to be reckoned with, he failed hard. Same with the Unsullied, who are actually pretty useless when anyone with any knowledge of medieval military thinks about it. Of course it is still his story, so they may still wreck shit up, but it will be very lame, when no real basis for has been made in the story so far.

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Old 04-30-2014, 09:27 AM   #5082
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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Originally Posted by Trollsmasher
Comparing Dothraki to Mongols is an insult to the military greatness of Mongols (and I am not even a particular fan of them).

Mongols employed advanced tactics, heavy cavalry, advanced command and army structure and most importantly ARMOR. There is a reason armor existed, even though most people today apparently think it is useless and you can slash through it with sword or shoot it through with an arrow anytime you want. Dothraki ride into the battle basically NAKED.

They were also capable of quick learning as they used anything and anyone (for example French trebuchets build by Persian engineers) that made them better. Dothraki on the other are a bunch of backwater racists that think everyone is inferior to them when it comes to war.

If GRRM intended to make a Dothraki into force to be reckoned with, he failed hard. Same with the Unsullied, who are actually pretty useless when anyone with any knowledge of medieval military thinks about it. Of course it is still his story, so they may still wreck shit up, but it will be very lame, when no real basis for has been made in the story so far.
Unsullied make no sense to me. They have their balls chopped off before puberty, which will only stunt their growth and subsequently stunt their strength. They are effectively a group of highly disciplined prepubescent children with a strength and size disadvantage vs everyone they come up against. No matter how much training and discipline, I don't understand how the unsullied are so formidible. Have Dany's unsullied done anything epic in the books yet? It would be a pretty cool twist if they turn out to not be very good soldiers once they get to westeros and just get steam rolled.


I know they killed the dothraki, but it sounds like that battle was basically just waves of cavalry charging in to a disciplined spear wall. Don't see how they would fare very well against Westerosi knights. They fight mainly with spear which is good but their strength disadvantage must be enormous.
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:04 AM   #5083
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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Originally Posted by Nick Young
Unsullied make no sense to me. They have their balls chopped off before puberty, which will only stunt their growth and subsequently stunt their strength. They are effectively a group of highly disciplined prepubescent children with a strength and size disadvantage vs everyone they come up against. No matter how much training and discipline, I don't understand how the unsullied are so formidible. Have Dany's unsullied done anything epic in the books yet? It would be a pretty cool twist if they turn out to not be very good soldiers once they get to westeros and just get steam rolled.


I know they killed the dothraki, but it sounds like that battle was basically just waves of cavalry charging in to a disciplined spear wall. Don't see how they would fare very well against Westerosi knights. They fight mainly with spear which is good but their strength disadvantage must be enormous.


She's got 3 dragons. Her army is basically window dressing.
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:15 AM   #5084
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Young
Unsullied make no sense to me. They have their balls chopped off before puberty, which will only stunt their growth and subsequently stunt their strength. They are effectively a group of highly disciplined prepubescent children with a strength and size disadvantage vs everyone they come up against. No matter how much training and discipline, I don't understand how the unsullied are so formidible. Have Dany's unsullied done anything epic in the books yet? It would be a pretty cool twist if they turn out to not be very good soldiers once they get to westeros and just get steam rolled.


I know they killed the dothraki, but it sounds like that battle was basically just waves of cavalry charging in to a disciplined spear wall. Don't see how they would fare very well against Westerosi knights. They fight mainly with spear which is good but their strength disadvantage must be enormous.
Yeah, it makes no sense. They are essentialy a hoplite force. That's 500 BC. There is 2 thousand years of military evolution between them and Westeros.

And of course, they don't even have balls. It's nice that they won't break, but pretty much useless when they simply get overpowered.

And I don't get what is this fetish that fantasy authors have with people not feeling pain. We feel it for a reason and not feeling is not a good thing, even on the battlefield. When you get spear in the gut, your job is to let somebody take your place in the formation and get your ass to medics, not stay in the place, die out of blood loss and leave a hole that can be breached, because you are tough and don't feel pain.

The Dothraki vs Unsullied battle was simply a battle between two caricatures and somebody had to win.

GRRM's worldbuilding in Essos is simply completly shitty in every department. Demographics, economics, military... The only place that somehow makes sense is Braavos.

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Old 04-30-2014, 10:22 AM   #5085
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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GRRM's worldbuilding in Essos is simply completly shitty in every department. Demographics, economics, military... The only place that somehow makes sense is Braavos.
yea GRRM really copped out with essos, dude did a terrible job at making it remotely believable, it's like far tales of the east or something. Like a travelogue of fantastical sights without any attention to depth or substance.
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