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Old 04-30-2014, 10:31 AM   #5086
Trollsmasher
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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Originally Posted by STATUTORY
yea GRRM really copped out with essos, dude did a terrible job at making it remotely believable, it's like far tales of the east or something. Like a travelogue of fantastical sights without any attention to depth or substance.
Yeah, it's a full blown orientalism. You can blame some of it on Daenerys' ignorance as she is our POV in Essos most of the time, but it does not get better even when we see it through somebody's else eyes.

I would not have a problem with it if he at least tried to make it somehow believable, but he clearly did not.

Eunuch warriors? Warriors on stilts? Bunch of savages with no armor owning the continent? No apparent economy apart from slave trade? Giant chunks of empty spaces and no apparent coutryside around those few cities? No middle class? The most retarded names in the history of fantasy writing?

Gimme a break
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:45 AM   #5087
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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Originally Posted by Trollsmasher
Yeah, it's a full blown orientalism. You can blame some of it on Daenerys' ignorance as she is our POV in Essos most of the time, but it does not get better even when we see it through somebody's else eyes.

I would not have a problem with it if he at least tried to make it somehow believable, but he clearly did not.

Eunuch warriors? Warriors on stilts? Bunch of savages with no armor owning the continent? No apparent economy apart from slave trade? Giant chunks of empty spaces and no apparent coutryside around those few cities? No middle class? The most retarded names in the history of fantasy writing?

Gimme a break


That's actually the most believable aspect.
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:26 AM   #5088
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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No, no, no. Medieval war is not Total War, where Cavalry >>>> everything else.

Well formed infantry formations supported by ranged weapons have won countless medieval battles. Westerosi military is precisely that. Contrary to popular belief, medieval feudal armies were not made of peasants with pitchforks, but mostly well equipped professionals. This is matched by descriptions of Westerosi armies in the text. They are not peasants. They are well trained men armed with quality steel and ranged weapons, wearing everything from gambesons and mail to plate armor, lot of them veterans of Robert's and Balon's rebellions. Just read the description of the battle at Green Fork.

The battle at the green fork like all the rest was a few hundred knights and thousands of unarmored untrainted men with homemade weapons.

One of the biggest slaughterings in the books(Robb beating Stafford Lannister) was for just that reason. He had 20 thousand men...almost all of which were people forced to come off their farms and fight. They had to wait weeks to even attempt battle just trying to train them.

20 thousand dothraki would have wiped that "army" out in moments.

Not like they didnt discuss it on the show:

http://youtu.be/1tjEQnXTvwk?t=32s


Unity and being 100% professional fighters would make the difference.



Quote:
And Dothraki are not even a medieval force. They are a proto light cavalry with no armor, slashing arakhs as a main weapon and no sense of tactics or firm structure of command. Half of them would be dead from arrow volleys before they would even reach the enemy and the rest would cut itself to pieces on the pikes of the first pike square they would ride into. You don't even need heavy cavalry to counter those idiots and slaughter them. Not to mention that once you kill the khal, they will disintegrate.

Funny considering that this easily stopped force is so feared that an entire continent that is pretty much Asia pays them off instead of even attempting to fight.

The only cities left untake nare those they intentionally leave so they can later come sell slaves too. They would have literally taken over their entire part of the world if not for needing slavers to profit off the slaves they capture. If you read the first book and see the description of their holy city you see they have taken over cities from all over the continent and had slaves drag back the statues of gods from thousands of miles away. They took over and wiped out cities in the Shadow lands beyond the maps they even publish.

They have taken over areas roughly equal to like...Italy to Japan.

They are the Mongols.

Their weakness is the arrogance of not wearing armor but if that kept them back...perhaps someone who does would have defeated them in the last several thousand years. The only people they didnt fight were the Valyrians id assume because how does someone on foot beat people with thousands of dragons. But even then they ruled their area. Once the dragons died out they sacked everywhere. The only cities left are the ones who pay them off.

Dont remember what book it was but someone(Jorah perhaps) mentioned that nobody can stand against them except unsullied because you cant pay sellswords enough to stand their ground and common people cant fight professional soldiers on horses.

Knights could do both. But you wouldnt have enough of them. If the west fully combined forces and put 20 thousand knights out front...they would win.

But they wouldnt. As Robert said...only a fool would meet them in an open field.
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:07 PM   #5089
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
The battle at the green fork like all the rest was a few hundred knights and thousands of unarmored untrainted men with homemade weapons.

One of the biggest slaughterings in the books(Robb beating Stafford Lannister) was for just that reason. He had 20 thousand men...almost all of which were people forced to come off their farms and fight. They had to wait weeks to even attempt battle just trying to train them.

20 thousand dothraki would have wiped that "army" out in moments.

Not like they didnt discuss it on the show:

http://youtu.be/1tjEQnXTvwk?t=32s


Unity and being 100% professional fighters would make the difference.





Funny considering that this easily stopped force is so feared that an entire continent that is pretty much Asia pays them off instead of even attempting to fight.

The only cities left untake nare those they intentionally leave so they can later come sell slaves too. They would have literally taken over their entire part of the world if not for needing slavers to profit off the slaves they capture. If you read the first book and see the description of their holy city you see they have taken over cities from all over the continent and had slaves drag back the statues of gods from thousands of miles away. They took over and wiped out cities in the Shadow lands beyond the maps they even publish.

They have taken over areas roughly equal to like...Italy to Japan.

They are the Mongols.

Their weakness is the arrogance of not wearing armor but if that kept them back...perhaps someone who does would have defeated them in the last several thousand years. The only people they didnt fight were the Valyrians id assume because how does someone on foot beat people with thousands of dragons. But even then they ruled their area. Once the dragons died out they sacked everywhere. The only cities left are the ones who pay them off.

Dont remember what book it was but someone(Jorah perhaps) mentioned that nobody can stand against them except unsullied because you cant pay sellswords enough to stand their ground and common people cant fight professional soldiers on horses.

Knights could do both. But you wouldnt have enough of them. If the west fully combined forces and put 20 thousand knights out front...they would win.

But they wouldnt. As Robert said...only a fool would meet them in an open field.
No it was not. If you even bothered to read it, you would know that.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...troop-quality/

I'll leave this thread here for anyone who is interested in the actual Westerosi militaries and not in the "farmers with pitchforks" fairytales. It contains the descriptions of northern army assembled by Robb (all clearly trained men with quality equipment) and the battle at Green Fork which shows the quality of the Lannister army and the resilience and discipline of the northern troops which were send there for a slaughter. The description of Tywin's army is particularly interesting as it contains some "leftovers" but they are still better equipped than any Dothraki we have ever seen.

You have it backwards with Dothraki. Those cities could wipe them out easily. But they don't, because Dothraki are essential to the slave production. They simply pay them off, because it costs less than hiring somebody like Golden Company and because they are the part of the economy cicle.

And as I said before, the whole Essos is a military backwater. I am comparing Dothraki to a 15th century Westerosi forces, not Unsullied hoplites. We are not talking some early medieval forces where the conscript, as Westeros is clearly much further advanced.

But there is really no point in discussing this with you, as you clearly believe fairy tales over what we actually see. You clearly know nothing of medieval military, Mongols or anything else from the period for that matter because only such person could say Dothraki are Mongols.

Robert has only heard legends about Dothraki. If he actually ever saw one,a s they are described in the books, he would probably have a fit of laughter. Jorah was feeding his bullshit to Daenerys as always.

So for everyone else:
These are you average 14-15th century soldiers for a reference to your average Westerosi soldier as they are described in the books:


You did not need to be a knight to be well armed or to be a quality soldier. These people were professionals for most parts. There would of course be some low quality fodder, but that was a minority.

This is a Dothraki:


Yeah, he would have a horse, but that's kinda useless when you take a crossbow bolt in the head because you are too retarded to wear a helmet.

Guess who wins

Also, these are Mongols riders:



so similar

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Old 04-30-2014, 07:53 PM   #5090
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I believe what I read. And every description of the big armies of the west is a few knights and a gang of farmers. One was literally called "THe sweepings of lannisport" boys and old men. Read what the Septon on the road with *omitted for spoiler reasons* said on their way to *again* about broken men.

He was a soldier himself. Spoke of thousands of pot boys armed with kitchen knives and fire hardened sticks being run down by real warriors and breaking and becoming outlaws.

I dont care about the real world. We arent talking about that. We are talking about a fantasy world. One where armies are a few kights used to stiffen common men.

Only the greatest of conflicts brings together enough knights to be of use. Which is why the person who actually led the army that took over westeros says they couldnt win.

He wanted to kill Danys baby in advance just out of fear of him at the head of a dothraki army.

You can dismiss them. The people in question dont.
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:28 PM   #5091
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

This show has gotten awfully rapey in the past few episodes. At least that part is staying true to the source material.
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Old 05-01-2014, 06:07 AM   #5092
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
I believe what I read. And every description of the big armies of the west is a few knights and a gang of farmers. One was literally called "THe sweepings of lannisport" boys and old men. Read what the Septon on the road with *omitted for spoiler reasons* said on their way to *again* about broken men.

He was a soldier himself. Spoke of thousands of pot boys armed with kitchen knives and fire hardened sticks being run down by real warriors and breaking and becoming outlaws.

I dont care about the real world. We arent talking about that. We are talking about a fantasy world. One where armies are a few kights used to stiffen common men.

Only the greatest of conflicts brings together enough knights to be of use. Which is why the person who actually led the army that took over westeros says they couldnt win.

He wanted to kill Danys baby in advance just out of fear of him at the head of a dothraki army.

You can dismiss them. The people in question dont.
No, it's not, I have posted these descriptions above. Stafford's army was an exception, because Tywin already took 45K men trained and equipped men east. And they still were not meant to fight until getting proper training and drills in, but Robb Stark won a lottery with Grey Wind finding a passage past Golden Tooth.

Septon Meribald was a camp follower. It's pretty clear from his description of himself and his friends. Boy trying to find glory. I mean he did not even have a weapon. No sensible lord would ever take a boy with no weapon into the army. He was not a soldier.

Yeah, we are talking about fantasy. Still, the author bases it on reality and common sense, therefore he should follow it. If he wanted to make Dothraki into a force to be reckoned with, he should've given more thought to their creation and description.

Why are you still talking about knights? Knights mean nothing in the military sense of view. It's a honorary title. Becoming knight does not make you a better fighter and it does not make you richer. Men from the North are not knights, because they do not believe in Seven, that does not mean they are somehow inferior to knights. We have seen bigass armies in Westeros, most of them are made of men at arms, freemen and freeriders, sellswords, retainers, landowners and such. All of those are soldiers, but not knights. There are at least 40M people living in Westeros, the upper and richer (warrior) class is pretty big.

I can dismiss them all I want. Robert's opinion is pretty much worthless, as he has never seen them. In the books he even thinks Drogo's horde is about thrice as big as it really is, so it's clear he has no information. Unlike him I have seen them in the text and as a fan of medieval warfare I simply had to laugh.

He wanted to kill Daenerys' baby because there were still Targaryen loyalists in Westeros who would jump back onto the Targaryen bandwagon if they came back - those would be real threat to the kingdom, not a bunch naked idiots on horses.

I mean, I really wonder how do you imagine an outcome of armorless riders with armorless horses charging into a 6 men deep pike wall supported by bowmen and crossbowmen?

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Old 05-01-2014, 09:46 AM   #5093
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

You say you read the books but it seems you forgot the issues at hand.

You think the two sellsword companies at qohor with armor, the cities heavy horse, and a doubled garrison also in armor didn't think to just put up pikes?

Then as ever everyone died armor or not. Surviving sellswords ran. Unsullied saved the day. And 2400 of their 3000 died too.

I suspect essos thought of arrows and Pikes.

Doesn't seem they work.

Real world just doesn't matter.

The source material says they win. The commander of the Westeros military says they win.

What you or i say is irrelevant.
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:05 AM   #5094
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And the septon was no camp follower. Where would you even get that?


*spoilers though not really plot related...just a brief paragraph the show likely wont even go into*




He said he went with all his brothers one of them saying he could squire for him(even though his brother was himself...just a pot boy with a stolen kitchen knife). It was literally a bunch of kids going to war. One wask illed by an axe or a mace to the head. Couple others died of sickness. I think one had an arm cut off. He said after they were dead he was STILL marching having been claimed by some new lord he didn't even know.

It was the war of the ninepenny kings and he was a child soldier in it. Like thousands of others.

Hell Ned and Robert were what....17 when they took the throne?

Robb stark was 15 beating lannisters.

Child soldiers were not the least bit uncommon. They considered you an adult at 16. Jaimes squire Peck was 14 fighting on the blackwater and killed 2 knights and captured 2 more.

Child soldiers are the norm in westeros. Your claim lords wouldn't take boys with no weapons just isn't based in what we know. How many times are the words "Fire hardened spear" in there?

A LOT of people are fighting with no real weapons. Just....tree branches and kitchen knives. Jaime mentioned "soldiers" with garden tools.

Just being real...such people do not stand firm vs 40,000 charging professional killers.


And you are 100% right it doesn't matter if youre actually a knight or not. The Hound isn't a knight. Neither is Brienne. But 20 thousand of them wont backdown. By knight I meant people with real training, armor, and war horses. Not....some guy given a sword.

A large enough force of knights or something similar could hold its own or beat the Dothraki I assume. The question is where would you get it quickly and have it all on one page. As Robert explained....there are as many armies as men with gold. And they all want something different.

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Old 05-01-2014, 11:21 AM   #5095
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
And the septon was no camp follower. Where would you even get that?


*spoilers though not really plot related...just a brief paragraph the show likely wont even go into*




He said he went with all his brothers one of them saying he could squire for him(even though his brother was himself...just a pot boy with a stolen kitchen knife). It was literally a bunch of kids going to war. One wask illed by an axe or a mace to the head. Couple others died of sickness. I think one had an arm cut off. He said after they were dead he was STILL marching having been claimed by some new lord he didn't even know.

It was the war of the ninepenny kings and he was a child soldier in it. Like thousands of others.

Hell Ned and Robert were what....17 when they took the throne?

Robb stark was 15 beating lannisters.

Child soldiers were not the least bit uncommon. They considered you an adult at 16. Jaimes squire Peck was 14 fighting on the blackwater and killed 2 knights and captured 2 more.

Child soldiers are the norm in westeros. Your claim lords wouldn't take boys with no weapons just isn't based in what we know. How many times are the words "Fire hardened spear" in there?

A LOT of people are fighting with no real weapons. Just....tree branches and kitchen knives. Jaime mentioned "soldiers" with garden tools.

Just being real...such people do not stand firm vs 40,000 charging professional killers.
I am not claiming child soldiers don't exist. Squiring at 14 is/was normal. I am claiming that children (or anyone else for that matter) without a proper equipment do not have a place in an army. What would a lord do with that kind of shit when he can use normal soldiers? No, they were boys that tried to take their chance in war - loot somebody's equipment, maybe kill someone important and get knighted. They fit right where the whores following the army fit - behind the army.

Above I have linked a thread on westeros boards with the most accurate descriptions of Westerosi armies from the books. All men are armed with steel swords, pikes, spears, lances, bows, crossbows, clad in gambesons, boiled leather, padded jacks, mail or plate and march and operate in formations.

Quote:
The karstarks came in on a cold windy morning, bringing three hundred horsemen and near two thousand foot from their castle at karhold. The steel points of their pikes winked in the pale sunlight as the column approached.

Ser wylis and his brother ser wendel followed, leading their levies, near fifteen hundred men: some twenty odd knights and as many squires, two hundred mounted lances, swordsmen, and freeriders, and the rest foot armed with spears, pikes and tridents.

Behind her came ser jared frey, ser hosteen frey, ser danwell frey, and lord walders basterd son ronald rivers, leading a long column of pikemen, rank on rank of shuffling men in blue steel ringmail and silver grey cloaks...

His uncle would lead the center. Ser kevan had raised his standerds above the kingsroad. Quivers hanging from their belts, the foot archers arrayed themselves into three long lines to east and west of the road, and stood calmly stringing their bows. Between them pikemen formed squares, behind were rank on rank of men at arms with spear and sword and axe. Three hundred heavy horse surrounded ser kevan and the lords bannermen lefford, lydden and serrett with all their sworn retainers. The right wing was all cavalry, some four thousand men, heavy with the weight of their armor. More then three quarters of the knights were there massed together like a great steel fist. Ser adam Marbrand had the command.

Were the right was a mailed fist of knights and heavy lances the vanguard was made up of the sweepings of the west: mounted archers in leather jerkins, a swarming mass of undisciplined freeriders and sellswords, fieldhands on plow horses armed with scythes and their fathers rusted swords half trained boys from the stews of lannisport, and tyrion and his mountain clansmen.

Even the biggest shits in Tywin's army, the fodder to lure the enemy into the trap, the so called sweepings of Lannisport are better armed AND disciplined than any single Dothraki. And half of those are still soldiers by profession - freeriders and sellswords.

Even the most backward cultures in Westeros, like the mountain clansmen, are better equipped than Dothraki.

Everyone who owns an equipment is some kind of professional soldier, because it is an expensive venture and there is no point in owning it if you do not ever use it in fight.

You are still claiming that the books say Dothraki would won. They don't. At Qohor they were a new, previously unseen threat and they still got destroyed by the Unsullied (even though it's just an exaggerated legend at this point), we see Jorah owning them left and right simply because of his superior equipment.

Who do they fight today? Pacifist Lhazareen? Damn, such a strong enemy. Each other? Great. That's like saying that 5'10 kid is the best basketball player in the world because he is able to beat other 5'10 kids.

Dothraki are not inheritly better soldiers than Westerosi soldiers. They are not better just because an uninformed guy like Robert who has never seen one says they would lose. In the books he in fact does not even say it. The thing he fears the most are Westerosi lords and their armies that would jump onto the Targaryen bandwagon. They are not better because they scream a lot or because they have bells in their hair.

Cavalry is not invincible. Light cavalry especially is not invincible. Guy with no armor is a dead guy. Guy with a slashing weapon - arakh - won't harm a man in chainmail.

Equipment and strategy are the two most important aspects of an open field battle - Dothraki have neither on their side. Numbers won't win you anything if the enemy outmatches you in every other department.

I ask you again - what do you expect to happen when a 20k khalasar charges into a pike square supported by an arrow fire and flanked by heavy cavalry (those don't even need to be knights)? These pikemen are professional soldiers on most part (they don't even need to be actually), they know the best chance thye got is to stay in their place. These archers can loose 4 volleys of arrows before the Dothraki even reach them. That heavy cavalry is basically invincible to any weapon Dothraki use.

I ask you to use a little dose of common sense which you repeatedly refuse to do.

I mean, being able to provide a military support is the whole base of feudalism, the concept which Martin used to base his world on and a concept he is clearly trying stand by. You are given a piece of land and when the lord calls, you have to go and provide a military support. If you are a bigger landowner, you take some of your men with you. You own your own equipment, because you know the war will come sooner or later and you regularly train with it, because there is not much else to do apart from farming from sunrise to sunset. Feudal armies were not made of amateurs and GRRM clearly knows that and that's why most of his descriptions of Westerosi armies fit with this concept and men like Septon Meribald are exceptions that prove the rule.

In fact - I have to give you something - there are farmers in those armies. Almost everyone was a farmer back then, but that did not mean you could not be a soldier as well.

Tree branchers and kitchen knives? Don't make me laugh. The ignorance is too much

This is my last post on the matter, because there clearly is no point in this discussion. Believe what you want. I shall believe rationality, my knowledge of feudalism and medieval military and most importantly - a careful reading of text.

TL;DR: Dothraki are complete shit. They don't wear armor, so a single arrow volley would kill thousands of them. They equip weapons that are useless against anything that is not a shitty leather jerkin. Your average soldier in chainmail is immune to anything a Dothraki can produce - be it a slash from arakh or a weak bow shot. They do not have any sense of tactics as they ride into the battle as a bunch of mindless screamers in one gigantic charge. Their command structure sucks so much that once you kill the khal, they fall apart and start fighting each other. They are a bastardized version of every single nomadic steppe nation in the history of Earth and if somebody like Genghis Khan ever saw them, he would laugh in their faces and piss on their corpses. There is not a single region in Westeros that would not defeat Drogo's khalasar on its own (before the war of the 5 Kings). The only use they would have in real warfare is as a harassment force for quick hit and run strikes.

edit: Man, I am tired from this. I should've ended this simply with the fact that Dothraki don't wear armor, which should be enough to confirm to anyone with brain that they are a bunch of total idiots.

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Old 05-01-2014, 12:08 PM   #5096
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Im just gonna ask you to read your own post and see the number of real soldiers/knights compared to foot. Manderly has 1500 men and 1300 on foot with spears and tridents. 3/4th of the actual knights....are in one group of 4000. 20 thousand men and 15 or so are not the type to stand against Dothraki....based on everything ever written of them. You can talk about the real world all you like. Im talking about a fantasy one with a history of the Dothraki beating everyone...including armored sellswords by the thousands....to the point Mormont mentions that you can no longer pay the free companies enough to stand against them.

And again...where you get the idea Maribald was some out of way camp follower is just beyond me. His actual words on what being a westeros soldier is:

***spoilers though it is a good speech***

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Quote:

Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been more than a mile from the house where they were born until the day some lord came round to take them off to war. Poorly shod and poorly clad, they march away beneath his banners, ofttimes with no better arms than a sickle or a sharpened hoe, or a maul they made themselves by lashing a stone to a stick with strips of hide. Brothers march with brothers, sons with fathers, friends with friends. They’ve heard the songs and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will see, of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know.

“Then they get a taste of battle.

“For some, that one taste is enough to break them. Others go on for years, until they lose count of all the battles they have fought in, but even a man who has survived a hundred fights can break in his hundred-and-first. Brothers watch their brothers die, fathers lose their sons, friends see their friends trying to hold their entrails in after they’ve been gutted by an axe.

“They see the lord who led them there cut down, and some other lord shouts that they are his now. They take a wound, and when that’s still half-healed they take another. There is never enough to eat, their shoes fall to pieces from the marching, their clothes are torn and rotting, and half of them are shitting in their breeches from drinking bad water.

“If they want new boots or a warmer cloak or maybe a rusted iron halfhelm, they need to take them from a corpse, and before long they are stealing from the living too, from the smallfolk whose lands they’re fighting in, men very like the men they used to be. They slaughter their sheep and steal their chickens, and from there it’s just a short step to carrying off their daughters too. And one day they look around and realize all their friends and kin are gone, that they are fighting beside strangers beneath a banner that they hardly recognize.

They don’t know where they are or how to get back home and the lord they’re fighting for does not know their names, yet here he comes, shouting for them to form up, to make a line with their spears and scythes and sharpened hoes, to stand their ground. And the knights come down on them, faceless men clad all in steel, and the iron thunder of their charge seems to fill the world…
“And the man breaks.
“He turns and runs, or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain, or steals away in the black of night, and he finds someplace to hide. All thought of home is gone by then, and kings and lords and gods mean less to him than a haunch of spoiled meat that will let him live another day, or a skin of bad wine that might drown his fear for a few hours. The broken man lives from day to day, from meal to meal, more beast than man. Lady Brienne is not wrong. In times like these, the traveler must beware of broken men, and fear them…but he should pity them as well.”
When Meribald was finished a profound silence fell upon their little band. Brienne could hear the wind rustling through a clump of pussywillows, and farther off the faint cry of a loon. She could hear Dog panting softly as he loped along beside the septon and his donkey, tongue lolling from his mouth. The quiet stretched and stretched, until finally she said, “How old were you when they marched you off to war?”

“Why, no older than your boy,” Meribald replied. “Too young for such, in truth, but my brothers were all going, and I would not be left behind. Willam said I could be his squire, though Will was no knight, only a potboy armed with a kitchen knife he’d stolen from the inn. He died upon the Stepstones, and never struck a blow. It was fever did for him, and for my brother Robin. Owen died from a mace that split his head apart, and his friend Jon Pox was hanged for rape.”
“The War of the Ninepenny Kings?” asked Hyle Hunt.

“So they called it, though I never saw a king, nor earned a penny. It was a war, though. That it was.”


Elite fighting force right there.....

And I what world is a camp follower forming up lines and being ridden down by knights?

He was a 10 year old(Pod is 10 in the books) on the front lines with others holding garden tools and sticks.

The real soldiers are not real fighters.

Its knights and farmboys. The books make that very clear.

If there is any ignorance here its you forgetting 20 or 30 examples of people in their wars explaining this.

Bottom line...the actual battle commander of the west...one of the most accomplished military leaders in their worlds history...his thoughts on fighting the dothraki?

Hide. The guy who would actually be GIVING THE COMMANDS says.....hide.

And your boy mormont made it clear as well that Robert would be a fool to face them in an open field. Adding that even if he were stupid enough his advisers ned stark being one of them would know better than to attempt to fight them.

the commanders of both sides give them the edge.

That's really all that matters. The real world is not the world in question.

Last edited by Kblaze8855 : 05-01-2014 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:25 PM   #5097
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Being infantry does not make you inferior or shitty Swiss pikemen were the most elite force in the late medieval Europe (you know, that era on which Westeros militaries are based on) and those guys could not ride a horse when their life depended on it. Pikemen with archery support are a perfect counter to a cavalry, especially light cavalry with no armor

10 years old boy is about as far away from your average soldier as Gregor Clegane, Meribald hardly speaks for everyone. Again I have given the descriptions of the armies of the WOT5K, all of them are vastly different from Meribald and all of them mention trained and equipped men fighting in learned formations.

I shall rather believe the descriptions of armies we are given in the text by people like Tyrion over a random idiot who went into the war with kitchen spoon as a 10 years old

And again, Robert has not seen a Dothraki in his life. He knows nothing of them.

The real world is not in question, but the logic and common sense are. If you have no armor and your horse has no armor and you ride into a pike wall with volleys of arrows raining upon you, you are dead in every single world.

Last edited by Trollsmasher : 05-01-2014 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:35 PM   #5098
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Trollsmasher and Kblaze: Although your dedication to the mythology is admirable, perhaps your current argument would be better continued in the ASOIAF thread. This is a thread about the HBO show.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:39 PM   #5099
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
Trollsmasher and Kblaze: Although your dedication to the mythology is admirable, perhaps your current argument would be better continued in the ASOIAF thread. This is a thread about the HBO show.
Nah, I am done with it. I said what I wanted to say. But this is relevant to the show too I would say and I don't think we spoilered anything or did we?

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Old 05-01-2014, 12:45 PM   #5100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollsmasher
Nah, I am done with it. I said what I wanted to say. But this is relevant to the show too I would and I don't think we spoilered anything or did we?


No, it's just getting a bit tedious. Thanks.
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