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Old 07-29-2011, 09:25 PM   #1051
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

about the deaths in this series: (spoilers for books 3-5 don't read this unless you have finished the latest book)

unless GRRM shows a body through a first person character's POV, (ned's head, tywin's funeral, etc etc) we can't assume a character is actually dead just because a different character says they are. he often sets it up as if a character is about to die but they end up showing up later alive and well. hell, even people who are definitely killed come back (zombie Cate).

davos, the hound, bran and rickon, brienne, theon...they all are thought to have been killed at one point or another but as of book 5 they are back. davos's death was faked, brienne survived her hanging somehow, theon is being tortured.

this brings me to Jon's death. I don't think he's really dead. I think too many people have figured out Jon's true parentage so GRRM is throwing us a curve. I still think Jon is Rhaegar's and Lyssa's son, despite the story that lord gave. I also think Jon survived the Nightwatch's betrayal. he got stabbed 4 times and then his POV fades to black, he could just be unconscious. remember, the wildlings heavily outnumber the Crows during this fight, they could have quickly won the battle and and saved Jon's life.

If however, Jon DID die I still don't think that's the last of him. Mellisiandria (sp?) is right there and she should be able to bring him back. She is by far the most powerful of the red priests we have seen so far.
Anyways, that's my take on the event that will probably piss off most fans. GRRM has 2 very plausible ways to get around what he did to that character.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:29 PM   #1052
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezznor
about the deaths in this series: (spoilers for books 3-5 don't read this unless you have finished the latest book)

unless GRRM shows a body through a first person character's POV, (ned's head, tywin's funeral, etc etc) we can't assume a character is actually dead just because a different character says they are. he often sets it up as if a character is about to die but they end up showing up later alive and well. hell, even people who are definitely killed come back (zombie Cate).

davos, the hound, bran and rickon, brienne, theon...they all are thought to have been killed at one point or another but as of book 5 they are back. davos's death was faked, brienne survived her hanging somehow, theon is being tortured.

this brings me to Jon's death. I don't think he's really dead. I think too many people have figured out Jon's true parentage so GRRM is throwing us a curve. I still think Jon is Rhaegar's and Lyssa's son, despite the story that lord gave. I also think Jon survived the Nightwatch's betrayal. he got stabbed 4 times and then his POV fades to black, he could just be unconscious. remember, the wildlings heavily outnumber the Crows during this fight, they could have quickly won the battle and and saved Jon's life.

If however, Jon DID die I still don't think that's the last of him. Mellisiandria (sp?) is right there and she should be able to bring him back. She is by far the most powerful of the red priests we have seen so far.
Anyways, that's my take on the event that will probably piss off most fans. GRRM has 2 very plausible ways to get around what he did to that character.


We'll find out when the next book arrives 10 years from now.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:32 PM   #1053
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bano114
Possible book 8? I thought he was only doing 7 and that was the end of it?
plan is to finishthe series at 7 but GRRM admitted that he has put so many pieces in play that it may have to go longer. after finishing book 5 i can see where he's coming from. winter is just about here but there is still a whole lot to be settled in westeros and the free cities before they can even think about facing the full force of the Others.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:51 PM   #1054
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

at this point, there is absolutely no incentive in entering this thread unless you actually want spoilers or have read up on the series
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:58 PM   #1055
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezznor
plan is to finishthe series at 7 but GRRM admitted that he has put so many pieces in play that it may have to go longer. after finishing book 5 i can see where he's coming from. winter is just about here but there is still a whole lot to be settled in westeros and the free cities before they can even think about facing the full force of the Others.

I'm convinced he was bitten by Robert Jordan and short of a miracle will die before he finishes the series.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:04 PM   #1056
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
I'm convinced he was bitten by Robert Jordan and short of a miracle will die before he finishes the series.
he sure as hell better have the rest of the story mapped out like Jordan did.


I don't mind the new writer at all, he doesn't drone on over minutia like Jordan tended to.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:17 PM   #1057
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezznor
he sure as hell better have the rest of the story mapped out like Jordan did.


I don't mind the new writer at all, he doesn't drone on over minutia like Jordan tended to.

True.

It seems to me Jordan was a bit overly obsessive with WOT to the point he got bogged down in a lot of useless details while it is clear Martin, or a part of him can't decide what direction he is going with the story after killing off a lot of characters that would be key characters in a typical tale. Hopefully he has the last few books mapped out and with the focus on the show he actually sticks to finishing the series and not doing so many side projects.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:21 PM   #1058
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
True.

It seems to me Jordan was a bit overly obsessive with WOT to the point he got bogged down in a lot of useless details while it is clear Martin, or a part of him can't decide what direction he is going with the story after killing off a lot of characters that would be key characters in a typical tale. Hopefully he has the last few books mapped out and with the focus on the show he actually sticks to finishing the series and not doing so many side projects.
yeah i'm hoping HBO gives im added incentive to finish the damn thing already. we don't need any more conan stories or short stories.

at least Jordan knew he was going to die so he was prepared. i hope grrm doesn't get hit by a car or something
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:16 PM   #1059
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezznor
about the deaths in this series: (spoilers for books 3-5 don't read this unless you have finished the latest book)

Tywin + Catelyn = Robb?
Spoilers for Book 5 in white:
Martin is losing his grasp on the plot a bit, he is falling into RJ's trap and I dont want my A Dream Spring credited by Scott Baker! My earlier post:


It was a bitch to read when it came to Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Quentyn and even Arya's chapters. When reading them I felt like I was reading the same chapters all over again. I never thought I would ever find Jon, Tyrion or Arya's chapters ever boring or repetitive...
Dany was either mooning over Daario or acting like a bitch, her transformation back to the girl she was in AGOT and ACOK only made her previous development to a queen the more ridiculous. Jon's chapters were all about saving wildlings and Bowen Marsh's scowls. Tyrion kept being passed around from captivity to another one. Quentyn's plot line was useless as bulltits.Theon, Davos, Bran and Griff saved ADWD from becoming a disaster though.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:10 AM   #1060
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
I don't think they fully explain it until later. The small folk are telling stories of Renly's ghost being on the battlefield, but it's mostly not believed, I think mainly stated by Cersei and Tyrion. But there is an explanation for it ... I just don't think it comes until much much later. Late in book 3 I think it is.

So now I have just finished Jaime's first chapter and would like to change my guesses to either Brienne or Jaime
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Old 07-31-2011, 02:50 AM   #1061
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Why would cate do that, and it seems to all have blown up in her face.. a mothers madness?!?!
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Old 07-31-2011, 12:56 PM   #1062
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Hero
So now I have just finished Jaime's first chapter and would like to change my guesses to either Brienne or Jaime


You were closer the first time.

Here, if you want (I don't feel it's that big of a deal.):

It was Loras' brother Garlan. Like I said, you had your guess right. You knew it was a flower based on his adoration of Renly (probably more enforced by the gay scene in the show, which really seems a stretch in the text, but for me I can't get the implication out of my head, and I read Loras and Renly like that all the time).
Anyway, it was Loras' brother, Garlan, who I don't believe you've been introduced to yet. But it's only because Loras was too small to fit in Renly's signature green armor with the Stag Antlered helm. So Garlan did it.
He tells the story to Jamie later on.
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Old 07-31-2011, 12:58 PM   #1063
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Hero
Why would cate do that, and it seems to all have blown up in her face.. a mothers madness?!?!


What're you talking about?

Dig the crowned stag avatar by the way.
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Old 07-31-2011, 01:08 PM   #1064
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
What're you talking about?

Dig the crowned stag avatar by the way.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about Catelyn freeing Jamie with Brienne.
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Old 07-31-2011, 02:04 PM   #1065
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Default Re: A Game of Thrones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bano114
I'm pretty sure he's talking about Catelyn having sex with the Imp.


Ah ... that makes sense.
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