Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-22-2011, 02:39 PM   #1
LilBTheBasedGod
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Can the human declaration of fact be 100% fool proof? (know that there is a difference between a law and a 'fact'.)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 03:28 PM   #2
Take Your Lumps
Banned
 
Take Your Lumps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,739
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Let's get our definitions straight before we go any further...our public schools do a horrendous job explaining this shit to kids.

The closest to absolute "truth" or "proof" in science are facts -- which are just observations that can't be disputed.

A scientific law simply describes an observation. Newton's Law of Gravity, for example, could be used to predict what will happen when you drop an object but it won't tell you why.

Scientific theories are developed to give us answers to "why" and "how".

The meanings and definitions of "proof" can vary widely depending on the scientific discipline.
Take Your Lumps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 03:29 PM   #3
shlver
코비=GOAT
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,255
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBTheBasedGod
Can the human declaration of fact be 100% fool proof? (know that there is a difference between a law and a 'fact'.)
What does this even mean? A scientific law and scientific fact are very similar in definition.
shlver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 04:10 PM   #4
LilBTheBasedGod
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Take Your Lumps
The closest to absolute "truth" or "proof" in science are facts -- which are just observations that can't be disputed.

But if they are not 100% known as absolute truth or proof, shouldn't they be able to be disputed? Sounds like propaganda to me, "Lets tell them these non facts and present them as indisputable facts."
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 04:17 PM   #5
Jailblazers7
will-to-bigness
 
Jailblazers7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 20,777
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

edit - off topic and shouldn't have made the post

Last edited by Jailblazers7 : 04-26-2011 at 04:47 PM.
Jailblazers7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 04:28 PM   #6
Godzuki
NBA Superstar
 
Godzuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,279
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBTheBasedGod
But if they are not 100% known as absolute truth or proof, shouldn't they be able to be disputed? Sounds like propaganda to me, "Lets tell them these non facts and present them as indisputable facts."


I believe they are open to be disputed because nothing is 100% definitive but things as we currently know as scientific facts have to be disproven first. In other words disprove Einsteins General Relativity theory, considering how much of everything we know abides by it. Until we find something that disproves it completely then its a universal law that works. Basically you can't ever say 100% anything realistically, but its so far above and beyond proven in every case thus far, it would be very difficult for you to prove it doesn't work.

and if this is supposed to be some disguised religion vs science thread, religion isn't even in the same ballpark of realistic or proven. its like comparing matrix or Pokemon to black hawk down, and deciding which could be more real.

Last edited by Godzuki : 04-26-2011 at 04:31 PM.
Godzuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 05:11 PM   #7
LilBTheBasedGod
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzuki
I believe they are open to be disputed because nothing is 100% definitive but things as we currently know as scientific facts have to be disproven first. In other words disprove Einsteins General Relativity theory, considering how much of everything we know abides by it. Until we find something that disproves it completely then its a universal law that works. Basically you can't ever say 100% anything realistically, but its so far above and beyond proven in every case thus far, it would be very difficult for you to prove it doesn't work.

and if this is supposed to be some disguised religion vs science thread, religion isn't even in the same ballpark of realistic or proven. its like comparing matrix or Pokemon to black hawk down, and deciding which could be more real.

Like I said in another thread, the radiometric age of the earth in 2000 was 1 billion years old. Now the radiometric age of the earth is 4.5 billion years old. In 2000 it was proclaimed as fact, but now is false, and the age of the earth now is proclaimed as fact to be determined as false, but why proclaim a bunch of bullcrap that can be determined as false? If it has the possibility as being proven incorrectly, why proclaim it as fact? Is it really a fact? What makes it any different than religion? Some bullcrap studies that humans think are valid? Not likely. Religion and science are in the same ballpark. One relies their fact on human observations, and the other relies their fact on God observations. In theory, which one is more valid? Then it requires you ask the question, whether you believe in God or not.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 05:24 PM   #8
RidonKs
rank sentamentalist
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: goodbyecruelworld
Posts: 16,955
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
edit - off topic and shouldn't have made the post
booooo. implies that this doofus' half baked thoughts constitute an actual topic.
RidonKs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 05:30 PM   #9
Jailblazers7
will-to-bigness
 
Jailblazers7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 20,777
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
booooo. implies that this doofus' half baked thoughts constitute an actual topic.

It wasn't anything worth while. It was just basically me insulting religion so I thought it would be better to delete it.
Jailblazers7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 05:36 PM   #10
Godzuki
NBA Superstar
 
Godzuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,279
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBTheBasedGod
Like I said in another thread, the radiometric age of the earth in 2000 was 1 billion years old. Now the radiometric age of the earth is 4.5 billion years old. In 2000 it was proclaimed as fact, but now is false, and the age of the earth now is proclaimed as fact to be determined as false, but why proclaim a bunch of bullcrap that can be determined as false? If it has the possibility as being proven incorrectly, why proclaim it as fact? Is it really a fact? What makes it any different than religion? Some bullcrap studies that humans think are valid? Not likely. Religion and science are in the same ballpark. One relies their fact on human observations, and the other relies their fact on God observations. In theory, which one is more valid? Then it requires you ask the question, whether you believe in God or not.


God Observation is completely made up tho. Who has ever observed God? Even remotely? even a tiny bit? in terms of something we can even come close to taking as factual or applicable?

To pretend to compare that to scientific observation which we use for inventions, scientific calculations, etc. is ridiculous.

I mean you're not even taking into account degree of accuracy. Like Newtons Law of Gravity was refined by Einsteins theory of Relativity.

Seriously what has God actually helped us create? All of our technology today is based on Science, and we still have people who keep trying to act like it parallels religion from a credibility perspective

What exactly has religion done for us over the thousands of years since its inception vs Science? You'd have to be retarded not to see where we're at today vs thousands of years ago thanks to science. If anything religion has tried to hold us back from improving ourselves.

Last edited by Godzuki : 04-26-2011 at 05:40 PM.
Godzuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 05:41 PM   #11
LilBTheBasedGod
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzuki
God Observation is completely made up tho. Who has ever observed God? Even remotely? even a tiny bit? in terms of something we can even come close to taking as factual or applicable?

To pretend to compare that to scientific observation which we use for inventions, scientific calculations, etc. is ridiculous.

I mean you're not even taking into account degree of accuracy. Like Newtons Law of Gravity was refined by Einsteins theory of Relativity.

Seriously what has God actually helped us create? All of our technology today is based on Science, and we still have people who keep trying to act like it parallels religion from a credibility perspective

What exactly has religion done for us over the thousands of years since its inception vs Science? You'd have to be retarded not to see where we're at today vs thousands of years ago thanks to science. If anything religion has tried to hold us back from improving ourselves.

Belief in the supernatural, dimensia, outerspace, etc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 05:51 PM   #12
RaininThrees
Meats Don't Clash
 
RaininThrees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,061
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBTheBasedGod
But if they are not 100% known as absolute truth or proof, shouldn't they be able to be disputed? Sounds like propaganda to me, "Lets tell them these non facts and present them as indisputable facts."

You're missing something there - check out the rest of Lumps' sentence.

He said:

Quote:
The closest to absolute "truth" or "proof" in science are facts -- which are just observations that can't be disputed.

There are some things in this world which are indisputable, like Gravity. Its there, there's no disputing its existence. The existence of light is a fact. That our planet revolves around our sun is fact. Like any theory, with new information ideas can be refined and changed entirely. That does not change the existence of the fact.

Science attempts to explain WHY these things exist/happen, and uses theories and scientific law to do so. Do not lump theories and scientific law in with facts.

Lumps did a very good job defining the differences in the words.
RaininThrees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 05:54 PM   #13
LilBTheBasedGod
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
You're missing something there - check out the rest of Lumps' sentence.

He said:



There are some things in this world which are indisputable, like Gravity. Its there, there's no disputing its existence. The existence of light is a fact. That our planet revolves around our sun is fact. Like any theory, with new information ideas can be refined and changed entirely. That does not change the existence of the fact.

Science attempts to explain WHY these things exist/happen, and uses theories and scientific law to do so. Do not lump theories and scientific law in with facts.

Lumps did a very good job defining the differences in the words.

I read it, thats why I asked that. If you read my OP, you would have understood that I said that there is a difference between law and facts. Gravity and light are laws, and they are indisputable.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 05:55 PM   #14
Hulk Hogan
Banned
 
Hulk Hogan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,510
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Scientific theories or facts gets changed every year. So no, its not beyond the confines of fallacy. If you base your life on today's uncertain scientific findings.
You will have a price to pay in the life after.

Maybe 20 years from now, Science will find indisputable proof of afterlife?
But by then It would too late for you already. You trusted science and lost your freewill to choose your own path but let science dictate your walk.
Hulk Hogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 06:00 PM   #15
RaininThrees
Meats Don't Clash
 
RaininThrees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,061
Default Re: Is science beyond the confines of fallacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBTheBasedGod
I read it, thats why I asked that. If you read my OP, you would have understood that I said that there is a difference between law and facts. Gravity and light are laws, and they are indisputable.

OK... so maybe your question is wrong then, or I'm totally misunderstanding what you're getting at.

If you're in agreement that facts are indisputable (and again - Newton's Law of Gravity is much different than the existence of gravity, and how light reflects and refracts is much different than the observation that it does so), then perhaps what you're meaning to say is that well held beliefs about how the world works - Laws and Theories - cannot be above error?

Because I agree there entirely.
RaininThrees is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:


Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:58 AM.




NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook


















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy