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Old 05-16-2011, 03:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave
Why should Jordan be singled out with that though? You act like Bird, Magic, Barkley, Shaq, Kobe, Wilt, etc. would be any different.

Because the article is about MJ .

Seriously some people see MJ as a saint/idol/role model for young people. I matters of determination, will to win and never giving up he should be the ultimate role model for basketball players. but personally and socially? no way.

Magic should be a model for not spending all your money in cars/homes and women to be broke before u r 40, but for good and clever investments.

And btw their are many former/current nba players who do a lot for their community (also money wise) but since hey are not MJ, the don't get the attention he would have had if he he had done f***ing thing.
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Old 05-16-2011, 03:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

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Originally Posted by chocolatethunder
Yeah cause Ali cared so much that he decided to make his name on Joe Frazier's back calling him a gorilla. Really was a hell of a guy. The greatest for sure as far as boxing is concerned but a loud mouthed jerk otherwise.

Yeah not to mention that Joe was one of the people who helped Ali out during his ban from boxing by giving him money and publicly supporting Ali during that time. Ali totally screwed him over and played up so many racial stereotypes against Frazier.

Ali also totally cut off Malcolm X for criticizing the Nation of Islam. Little known story, but Jordan (among others) quietly gave Spike Lee a good amount of money to make his Malcolm X movie once he couldn't get financing from the studio to make it.

Last edited by Soundwave : 05-16-2011 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 03:33 PM   #18
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Jordan is a *****, always has been.
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Old 05-16-2011, 03:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

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Originally Posted by jb220
Jordan is a *****, always has been.

A lot of people would say the same about Ali. And Bird. And Magic. And Shaq. And Kobe.

While we're at it.
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Old 05-16-2011, 03:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave
What Ali did was great but he was also kind of forced into that role because of the times and circumstances.

Not everyone has to be some kind of social activist. Jordan played basketball and played hard basically every night of his career.

He wasn't a media creation, he worked hard on his game and became the best at what he did ... no marketing firm could create that ... and we know they've tried with other players.

If someone wants to raise social/political issues, great, but Jordan also came into the pro sports world at a very different time from Ali. The civil rights movement was over. The Vietnam war was over. Hell the cold war was over. The Gulf War of 1991 was a 6-month skirmish.

How many social causes did Larry Bird champion? *crickets*. Does he get a pass because he's white? Magic didn't do anything either until he got HIV and was forced to be a figure head for that, and that certainly wasn't by choice.

Dixie Chicks >> Michael Jordan ... not even close

2003–05: Political controversy

During the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, the Dixie Chicks performed in concert in London on March 10, 2003, at the Shepherd's Bush Empire theatre in England. This concert kicked off their Top of the World Tour. During the introduction to their song "Travelin' Soldier", Natalie Maines, who along with Robison and Maguire was also a native of Texas, said:

“ Just so you know, we’re on the good side with y’all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we’re ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas. ”
—Natalie Maines,



fu*k Michael (money-whore) Jordan
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Old 05-16-2011, 03:38 PM   #21
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winwin
Dixie Chicks >> Michael Jordan ... not even close

2003–05: Political controversy

During the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, the Dixie Chicks performed in concert in London on March 10, 2003, at the Shepherd's Bush Empire theatre in England. This concert kicked off their Top of the World Tour. During the introduction to their song "Travelin' Soldier", Natalie Maines, who along with Robison and Maguire was also a native of Texas, said:

“ Just so you know, we’re on the good side with y’all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we’re ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas. ”
—Natalie Maines,



fu*k Michael (money-whore) Jordan



OK, gotta love the Dixie Chicks.

BTW, I don't recall Michael Jordan ever calling another black athlete a gorilla or mocking them in racist terms. Before you give Ali the crown for being some kind of saint, maybe you should realize he had his flaws also.

Find me one star athlete that plays any sport for free. Jordan was simply better at making money because people responded more to his style of play than other players. Hate on him for that, but that's getting to the point of just hating for hating sake.

Last edited by Soundwave : 05-16-2011 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 04:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Deconstructing Jordan:

http://www.providencephoenix.com/arc.../01/21/MJ.html
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Old 05-16-2011, 04:10 PM   #23
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

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Originally Posted by Ne 1

Jordan was never popular for his personality as a speaker or whatever. Even Magic had more "charisma" in that sense.

Jordan's "personality" was his style of play. The way he played the game (above the rim specifically) was what captivated a lot of people. That's why people compared his style of play to ballet and stuff like that, even people who didn't give a crap about basketball enjoyed the highlight reel aspect of his game.

That's what made him a pop culture icon, women who didn't care about basketball would watch, he was referenced on Seinfeld, etc. And soon he became so dominant that he was simply became associated with excellence in any field (ie: the "he/she is the Michael Jordan of _______").

He didn't need to be a "loud mouth" like Ali was. His game did all the talking that was necessary, he expressed his personality through his game.

Last edited by Soundwave : 05-16-2011 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 04:33 PM   #24
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave


OK, gotta love the Dixie Chicks.

BTW, I don't recall Michael Jordan ever calling another black athlete a gorilla or mocking them in racist terms. Before you give Ali the crown for being some kind of saint, maybe you should realize he had his flaws also.

Find me one star athlete that plays any sport for free. Jordan was simply better at making money because people responded more to his style of play than other players. Hate on him for that, but that's getting to the point of just hating for hating sake.

Ali said it

"I said a lot of things in the heat of the moment that I shouldn't have said," Ali said in an interview published in the New York Times. "Called [Frazier] names I shouldn't have called him. I apologize for that. I'm sorry. It was all meant to promote the fight."


when Ali lost his titles, his money, his name and banned for three and a half years of his PRIME and kept his soul ...
do you know who is the first to help him financialy?

it was Frazier

-------
and about ( Jordan was simply better at making money )

do you know who liberated the earning potential of black sporsmen?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUHIAE0se80

watch part 11 .. 0:100 mark

and if you want The Greatest inspiration in the history of sport ..
watch all 11 parts
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Old 05-16-2011, 04:40 PM   #25
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winwin
Ali said it

"I said a lot of things in the heat of the moment that I shouldn't have said," Ali said in an interview published in the New York Times. "Called [Frazier] names I shouldn't have called him. I apologize for that. I'm sorry. It was all meant to promote the fight."


when Ali lost his titles, his money, his name and banned for three and a half years of his PRIME and kept his soul ...
do you know who is the first to help him financialy?

it was Frazier

-------
and about ( Jordan was simply better at making money )

do you know who liberated the earning potential of black sporsmen?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUHIAE0se80

watch part 11 .. 0:100 mark

and if you want The Greatest inspiration in the history of sport ..
watch all 11 parts

Jordan has thanked people like Jackie Robinson, you'd be stupid to think he's not aware of them.

Not his responsibility to be a politician though. He's a basketball player.

The real thing is Jordan fulfilled all the necessary tenants required of him:

1.) Be a gracious winner. Jordan cried with his father after winning the title, I think people appreciated seeing that.

2.) Don't be a showboat, don't act like you are better than what you are.

3.) Be a gracious loser (see: Jordan would shake the hands of all the Pistons when he lost, whereas the Pistons bailed when the tables were turned, except for Dumars who said he was going to shake Jordan's hand because he had shook theirs in defeat years before).

4.) Do what you want off the court as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. This is why by and large 99% of the general public didn't give a crap about his gambling. It was his money, if he wanted to blow it on gold plated easter eggs, people didn't care about that.

5.) Back up the hype with performance. Never was there an athlete as hyped as Jordan, but really never was there one that delivered on cue as much as Jordan did. When the going got tough, Jordan got going.

6.) Don't get involved in stupid/petty disputes with teammates/coaches/etc. Jordan had his issues with Jerry Krause but never let it overshadow the game.

7.) Be kind/charitable to kids. For the most part Jordan was well known to give good amounts of money and time to underprivileged kids in Chicago. He just didn't shout about it from the rooftops.

8.) Stay away from steroids and PEDs.

9.) The general public isn't stupid, we know athletes/rock stars/movie stars sleep around. Hell, pretty much all of us would do the same in their position. Just don't let it get to Tiger Woods or Magic Johnson levels of recklessness or get caught in a rape case or something embarrassing like that.

That's it. You don't need to be a religious/political/social icon. You don't have to be perfect off the court either, no one really gives a sh-t about that honestly as long as you're not killing people or selling drugs or something crazy.

Also it's easy for Ali to say sorry now. Frazier still is not over it, just saying sorry doesn't wipe away the things Ali did. He also left Malcolm X out to dry without even taking a phone call from the guy.

Last edited by Soundwave : 05-16-2011 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 04:59 PM   #26
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Ali was more of an asshole than a rebel really.
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Old 05-16-2011, 06:02 PM   #27
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

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Originally Posted by LJJ
Ali was more of an asshole than a rebel really.

and Jordan showed you can be an asshole and a product of corporations at the same time
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Old 05-16-2011, 06:22 PM   #28
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Greatest athlete ever, miles ahead of Ali:

King Pele Jordan.



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Old 05-16-2011, 06:54 PM   #29
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave
Jordan was never popular for his personality as a speaker or whatever. Even Magic had more "charisma" in that sense.

Jordan's "personality" was his style of play. The way he played the game (above the rim specifically) was what captivated a lot of people. That's why people compared his style of play to ballet and stuff like that, even people who didn't give a crap about basketball enjoyed the highlight reel aspect of his game.

That's what made him a pop culture icon, women who didn't care about basketball would watch, he was referenced on Seinfeld, etc. And soon he became so dominant that he was simply became associated with excellence in any field (ie: the "he/she is the Michael Jordan of _______").

He didn't need to be a "loud mouth" like Ali was. His game did all the talking that was necessary, he expressed his personality through his game.


Pretty much why I appreciated MJ. It was the game itself, and what he did with it that was special. You can see how he evolved from a ballhog to a team player during each phase of his career.

I break his career up as.

80s Highlight Player
Early 90s Plug in the hole player
Late 90s ultimate team player (there's no way his teammates hated him, yet still manage to rattle off 72 wins).
00s was basically him seeing if he could keep up the "Faster, Stronger, Healthier" generation.

I'm glad he didn't bother getting wrapped up in politics and all that other bullsh!t. That's simply not his expertise and he knew it.


If Ali was around today, Fans would be whining about how he "talked too much, should just shut up and box" etc. like they do Lebron. And Lebron's not even scratching the surface of Ali's sh!t talking abilities.
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Old 05-16-2011, 07:11 PM   #30
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevaeh

I'm glad he didn't bother getting wrapped up in politics and all that other bullsh!t. That's simply not his expertise and he knew it.


If Ali was around today, Fans would be whining about how he "talked too much, should just shut up and box" etc. like they do Lebron. And Lebron's not even scratching the surface of Ali's sh!t talking abilities.

There is something to be said I guess for just shutting up and playing the game.

A lot of people don't want to hear your POV on abortion, politics, the Middle East, oil prices, race relationships, etc. etc.

The guy who paid $200+ of his pay cheque to get his kids tickets to see you play ... they just want to see you play basketball.

And in that respect Jordan always brought it. I remember even when the Bulls would play the lowly Raptors or Grizzlies, Jordan would insist on playing hard and giving the fans their money's worth because he knew those people didn't get many chances to see the Bulls.
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