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Old 05-16-2011, 08:28 PM   #31
SinJackal
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

I'm not sure why so many people here are acting like Ali was the greatest boxer ever. "The greatest of all time" is a self-proclaimed title that he gave HIMSELF, that basically stuck to him as a nicname. Now people are confusing his self-proclaimed arrogant nicname as reality.

George Foreman destroyed boxers that Ali struggled with (For example, he smashed Frazier in 2 rounds, knocking his ass to the ground 6 times before he couldn't get up anymore. Yes, 6 knockdowns in less than 2 rounds. Frazier was not the only guy he demolished either). Ali also avoided fighting Foreman a second time because he was afraid of his greatest accomplishment of defeating Foreman to be exposed as the fluke victory that it was.

Ali's total fight record is not that impressive. Especially compared to Foreman's. How about Sugar Ray Robinson? Give me Sugar Ray over Ali any day. And yes, I rhymed that on purpose.

Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano were better boxers imo too. Sugar Ray Leonard arguably. Paquiao can be argued as better too. Ali never dominated like Paquiao is. And this is against much bigger dudes for him too.


Ali is arguably just as much of a brand name hero as Jordan. Wtf did Ali do? Shit, even if you watch his documentraries and movies about him, he's a douchebag and barely did anything but run his mouth and act like an arrogant fool.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jb220
Jordan is a *****, always has been.

Ali was the bigger douchebag, to be fair here. Jordan's a bigger douche than most people think, but we all know Ali was a HUGE douchebag.


Quote:
Originally Posted by moaz
It is not the issue here.
Ali went to jail and lost his title because he refused to go to war. If MJ had ever been threatened by something like that he would have written kill the f***ng VietCong on on side, and F**k Ali on the other side of his next Nike Shoes.

If you read between the lines, Ali is being celebrated for being a coward, afraid of dying in a war. Seriously, if he went to jail for something else, like for refusing to not practice the religion in public or some shit, I could see it being celebrated. But he avoided going to war. . .I have a difficult time believing he just didn't want to risk his life. You know, since he was such a fresh convert to that religion. Seems a little too convienient to me. Like it was an excuse for him, wanting to be different and to stand out. And avoid war.

I don't buy into that heroicly went to jail shit. Ali was so self-absorbed, there's no way I can believe he did that for anyone but himself.

Before anyone even bothers to debate this, Ali joined that religion in 1964, convieniently when the United States began testing citizens for draft qualifications. Ali failed the writing and spelling tests (perhaps intentionally), then two years later when the qualifications were revised, he refused to go to war, claiming his religion as the reason.

That shit wasn't heroic. He didn't want to go to war. He was a coward, and it's fairly obvious if you look at the timing of everything surrounding that. Now, I'm not saying that's the sole reason he converted, but he clearly used that as an excuse to dodge the draft.

And I'm sure Jordan wouldn't have pussed out either, I agree. We would've won that war if MJ went. MJ leads any team to victory! sarcasm
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:32 PM   #32
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinJackal

Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano were better boxers imo too. Sugar Ray Leonard arguably. Paquiao can be argued as better too. Ali never dominated like Paquiao is. And this is against much bigger dudes for him too.

Not disagreeing with this, but everytime someone brings up Rocky Marciano I always think of Eddie Murphy in Coming to America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVaYL_71CGk
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:40 PM   #33
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave
Not disagreeing with this, but everytime someone brings up Rocky Marciano I always think of Eddie Murphy in Coming to America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVaYL_71CGk

Great movie. Funny scene too. :P

But yeah. . .Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano are both better than Ali imo. Even though a lot don't agree with me on this, I think George Foreman was better too. He lost to Ali, but Ali wouldn't fight him a second time. And Foreman emphatically smashed many boxers that Ali had a lot of problems with. Not to mention Foreman ended up with a better record, came back at 40-50 years old and was still putting dudes in the dirt as an out of shape fat guy. Of right, he won the world title at 45 and remained champion until he lost a decision to lose it shortly before turning 49.

Ali: 56-5, 37 KOs.

Foreman: 76-5, 68 KOs. (3 losses came at 42+ years old)

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Old 05-16-2011, 08:40 PM   #34
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Great article people worship the Jumpman sign like it was a crucifix.
Jordan was not political what so ever and did not have to fight through racial barriers like Ali did. Jordan's success is a product of what Ali and other athletes like Jim Brown and Bill Russell have done in the past.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:43 PM   #35
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Ali was the bigger douchebag, to be fair here. Jordan's a bigger douche than most people think, but we all know Ali was a HUGE douchebag.

What Ali did to Fraizer was f@cked up but where else was he seen as a douche?
Jordan was a horrible team mate. Take a look at the guys hall of fame speech for crying out loud. He talked smacked to his own kids. Name one thing Jordan has done for African Americans that is on the level of anything that Ali did? Don't be ignorant.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:45 PM   #36
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtySanchez
Great article people worship the Jumpman sign like it was a crucifix.
Jordan was not political what so ever and did not have to fight through racial barriers like Ali did. Jordan's success is a product of what Ali and other athletes like Jim Brown and Bill Russell have done in the past.

Yeah ... and?

It's great that Jim Brown and Bill Russell did what they did, but it's called PROGRESS, and that's the reason why Jordan/Magic/Shaq/Kobe/etc. don't have to go through that and that's a good thing.

They shouldn't be knocked for their success because they live a more progressive time.

You're also friggin retarded if you think Michael Jordan and his family living in the south in the 60s and 70s didn't experience their share of racism either.

Bill Russell/Jim Brown/Muhammad Ali did not give Michael Jordan his work ethic or desire or talent or creativity either.

Last edited by Soundwave : 05-16-2011 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:52 PM   #37
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

SMH@ sin jackal

How is Ali not the greatest? He fought in the toughest era of the heavyweight division, he beat the greatest fighters ever and was the greatest trashtalker in sports. And lets not forget he missed a couple years of his prime because of the ban he received. He absolutely destroyed Foreman with perhaps the greatest tactic in boxing of all time while being past his prime. Foreman himself said he almost killed himself and was in a deep depression after that fight. He almost blinded Frazier in Manilla. Maybe he's not the best pure boxer but as a sporter he is the greatest. And please do not compare welterweight/light heavyweight Sugar Ray to heavyweight Ali. They barely fought in the same division.

Shit put him and Mike in the ring he still takes it to 12 rounds and knocks his arrogant ass out.

He has beaten:

Sonny Liston TWICE
Lamar Clark
Floyd Patterson TWICE
Joe Frazier TWICE
George Foreman
Ken Norton TWICE
Oscar Bonavena
Jerry Quarry TWICE
Henry Cooper TWICE

And Ali in his prime would have beaten Foreman without the rope-a-dope

Last edited by brownmamba00 : 05-16-2011 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:56 PM   #38
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtySanchez
What Ali did to Fraizer was f@cked up but where else was he seen as a douche?
Jordan was a horrible team mate. Take a look at the guys hall of fame speech for crying out loud. He talked smacked to his own kids. Name one thing Jordan has done for African Americans that is on the level of anything that Ali did? Don't be ignorant.

Ali was basically the black equivelent to those stupid racist white power movements. Forgive me for not getting too choked up about it. The guy was a black separatist. And not the "noble" kind.

Quit trying to make him out to be Martin Luther King. He's not even close. Almost everything he did was douchey. He was racist, attacked other blacks for not being racist (like Joe), and bemoaned american soceity while oh yeah, making a bunch of money being a celeb. The guy was a massive hypocrite. Not only that, but he was a sore loser. Remember when he lost to Frazier? He claimed the white man judges robbed him of the match. Yeah, the "white man" gave a black guy a match because they're racist. Right. . . Sore loser, douchebag, hypocrite, racist. That's Muhammed Ali. You guys are acting like he's a saint and the only bad thing he did was that shit in the Joe Frazier documentary. Please. . .if you really think that's the only thing Ali ever did wrong, I'm not going to educate you on his life history by breaking down all of his douchebaggery. That shit would take all day.

I also never claimed Jordan did anything for african americans. He's just a sports figure who was a great basketball player and made himself a lot of money through endorsements. I'm just saying Ali didn't do nearly as much as some of you think he did. Muhammed Ali's story gets so embellished now, it's almost puke-inducing.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:57 PM   #39
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownmamba00
SMH@ sin jackal

How is Ali not the greatest? He fought in the toughest era of the heavyweight division, he beat the greatest fighters ever and was the greatest trashtalker in sports. And lets not forget he missed a couple years of his prime because of the ban he received. He absolutely destroyed Foreman with perhaps the greatest tactic in boxing of all time while being past his prime. Foreman himself said he almost killed himself and was in a deep depression after that fight. He almost blinded Frazier in Manilla. Maybe he's not the best pure boxer but as a sporter he is the greatest. And please do not compare welterweight Sugar Ray to heavyweight Ali.

Shit put him and Mike in the ring he still takes it to 12 rounds and knocks his arrogant ass out.

He has beaten:

Sonny Liston TWICE
Lamar Clark
Floyd Patterson TWICE
Joe Frazier TWICE
George Foreman
Ken Norton TWICE
Oscar Bonavena
Jerry Quarry TWICE
Henry Cooper TWICE


To be fair, Joe Frazier completely handled Ali in their first meeting. Dominated him. Then Ali beat him two times in the final two years of Frazier's career, and only after Foreman had destroyed Frazier.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:59 PM   #40
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtySanchez
Great article people worship the Jumpman sign like it was a crucifix.
Jordan was not political what so ever and did not have to fight through racial barriers like Ali did. Jordan's success is a product of what Ali and other athletes like Jim Brown and Bill Russell have done in the past.

That could be said about every other athlete that got a shoe deal, not just Jordan. How about Magic with Converse, Worthy with New Balance, Penny Hardaway, Shaq, Pippen, Barkley, Grant Hill etc. Why is Jordan always singled out for being a product pitchman?

Because Jordan can dunk and do fade aways he should run for political office? That's just retarded. If that's the case I want Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Rose and Dirk to tell me how they plan to balance America's Budget and strengthen our economy.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:03 PM   #41
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

People also love celebrities/athletes when they back political positions they agree with ... until they back a position that is something they don't agree with then hoooo boy .... it's "shut up! I'm not paying to hear about your politics!!"

Last edited by Soundwave : 05-16-2011 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:10 PM   #42
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
To be fair, Joe Frazier completely handled Ali in their first meeting. Dominated him. Then Ali beat him two times in the final two years of Frazier's career, and only after Foreman had destroyed Frazier.
Yeah but still 2>1. The second one was the least relevant imo The third game was the most important because they really really hated each other at that point and wanted to prove who was the best boxer. dammit that was such a brutal game
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:23 PM   #43
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
To be fair, Joe Frazier completely handled Ali in their first meeting. Dominated him. Then Ali beat him two times in the final two years of Frazier's career, and only after Foreman had destroyed Frazier.

To be fair, Ali had been reinstated less than 6months before that fight after the layoff yet he still went 15 rounds with Joe Frazier at his peak. And while Frazier won the fight, he didn't completely handle Ali in that fight. Frazier's took so much damage in the fight (both eyes were nearly shut and his forehead was swollen with lumps) that, after the fight, there were rumors that he had died. He ended up spending a significant amount of time in the hospital after the fight. It was a relatively close. (Frazier won a unanimous decision. 2 judges didn't see it as a blowout: Judge Artie Aidala scored the bout 9-6, and referee Arthur Mercante scored it 8-6-1.) but Frazier was the better boxer that night. But being that he was able to battle prime Frazier to that extent and giving out some punishment less than 6 months after a 4 year layoff is a testament to Ali's skill.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:53 PM   #44
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave
9.) The general public isn't stupid, we know athletes/rock stars/movie stars sleep around. Hell, pretty much all of us would do the same in their position.

Speak for yourself.

I love how people always presume that everyone else would act as they would in a given situation.
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Old 05-16-2011, 10:03 PM   #45
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herschel4heisman
To be fair, Ali had been reinstated less than 6months before that fight after the layoff yet he still went 15 rounds with Joe Frazier at his peak. And while Frazier won the fight, he didn't completely handle Ali in that fight. Frazier's took so much damage in the fight (both eyes were nearly shut and his forehead was swollen with lumps) that, after the fight, there were rumors that he had died. He ended up spending a significant amount of time in the hospital after the fight. It was a relatively close. (Frazier won a unanimous decision. 2 judges didn't see it as a blowout: Judge Artie Aidala scored the bout 9-6, and referee Arthur Mercante scored it 8-6-1.) but Frazier was the better boxer that night. But being that he was able to battle prime Frazier to that extent and giving out some punishment less than 6 months after a 4 year layoff is a testament to Ali's skill.

50 posts in 5 years?

you need to post more .. ISH needs you
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