Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-17-2011, 01:03 PM   #16
alwaysunny
in Brooklyn
 
alwaysunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,858
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlip
Most informed posts that I have read on this subject suggest that Wilt would obviously have won more titles, (i.e. 4-7) but his style of play and intangibles would not have meshed as well with the remaining Celtics as Russell's did preventing them from winning 11 titles as they did. Also, based upon research and Wilt's own comments I somewhat doubt if players such as K.C. Jones and Frank Ramsey would have made the Hall of Fame given that they were never even all stars during their careers. This is what Wilt had to say in an interview about this very question:

[i]"What I respected about Bill, more than anything else, was that he basically played me in a manner that I think the game of basketball should be played. He knew he couldn't out physical me and he never tried. He would try to steal the ball, he would use his quickness, he would use his agility, he would use the things that he had going for him to play wonderfully strong defense with the help from his team. No other player ever played me that way. That team wasn't so great until he got there. Once he got there, he was the piece that they were looking for. A lot of people have said to me, "Wilt, what if you had that team? Boy, you would never have lost!" Not true. If I was on their team, I would be taking away from some of what the other guys were doing. Everybody had a role on that team. (Tom) Heinsohn wouldn't be getting the same number of shots, nor would (Bill) Sharman, nor would (Bob) Cousy because I'd be shooting the ball a whole lot more. Bill Russell gave them just what they needed. I would've given them a little bit more in certain things, which I think would have made the team not as good. I've always believed that he made that team exactly what it was supposed to be. And you couldn't get any better."[/I]

http://www.nba.com/history/chamberlain_50.html
You gotta give Wilt credit for giving Russell props, but honestly there's no question the Celtics would've won more rings with Wilt instead of Russell. Take Pierce and LeBron for example. You can make the same argument that with LeBron on Celtics it may take away the team chemistry, but because LeBron is a far better player than Pierce the talent level will outweigh the team chemistry thus making them the better overall team (not to mention LeBron's superior defense which would make the Celtics even BETTER defensive team).
alwaysunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 01:14 PM   #17
KevinNYC
Toronto Mayor Rob Ford
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,596
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysunny
You gotta give Wilt credit for giving Russell props, but honestly there's no question the Celtics would've won more rings with Wilt instead of Russell. Take Pierce and LeBron for example. You can make the same argument that with LeBron on Celtics it may take away the team chemistry, but because LeBron is a far better player than Pierce the talent level will outweigh the team chemistry thus making them the better overall team (not to mention LeBron's superior defense which would make the Celtics even BETTER defensive team).

Is Russell still in the league in this scenario? Is Russell playing on Chamberlain's teams? You are aware that Russell won 11 out of 13 rings? Or to put it another way. Russell won 85% of all possible rings during his career. With Wilt they would have won 12 or 13?
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 01:17 PM   #18
alwaysunny
in Brooklyn
 
alwaysunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,858
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
Is Russell still in the league in this scenario? Is Russell playing on Chamberlain's teams? You are aware that Russell won 11 out of 13 rings? Or to put it another way. Russell won 85% of all possible rings during his career. With Wilt they would have won 12 or 13?
I think they would have won all 13 years
alwaysunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 01:18 PM   #19
Hittin_Shots
National High School Star
 
Hittin_Shots's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,454
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

What Wilt said sounds like the way Russell played on that team allowed his team member to shine more, therefore how can your HoF argument hold water if they were allowed to play to a HoF level because there was noone taking that away from them as Wilt said he probably would have?
Hittin_Shots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 01:20 PM   #20
KevinNYC
Toronto Mayor Rob Ford
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,596
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysunny
I think they would have won all 13 years

I think this scenario assumes that you could have a 13 year straight period where Wilt's teammates would want to

A. Play with Wilt
B. Go all out for Wilt.

I don't think Wilt ever had a stretch like that while Russell did. This is why the players voted Russell MVP over Wilt several times.
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 01:26 PM   #21
Dragonyeuw
Local High School Star
 
Dragonyeuw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,593
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Wilt would have provided all of the rebounding shot-blocking than Russell provided, in addition to the gigantic upgrade on offense. The dynamics of the team would have changed, but I wouldn't doubt Wilt winning around the same number of rings.
Dragonyeuw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 01:32 PM   #22
alwaysunny
in Brooklyn
 
alwaysunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,858
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
I think this scenario assumes that you could have a 13 year straight period where Wilt's teammates would want to

A. Play with Wilt
B. Go all out for Wilt.

I don't think Wilt ever had a stretch like that while Russell did. This is why the players voted Russell MVP over Wilt several times.
What do you mean by "go all out"? As in letting Wilt be a one-man show or demanding a trade?

As for MVP we all know it usually goes to the player with best records. One of Russell's MVP years he wasn't even in All-NBA first team. That makes no sense.
alwaysunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 01:44 PM   #23
KevinNYC
Toronto Mayor Rob Ford
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,596
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonyeuw
Wilt would have provided all of the rebounding shot-blocking than Russell provided, in addition to the gigantic upgrade on offense. The dynamics of the team would have changed, but I wouldn't doubt Wilt winning around the same number of rings.

However, as Wilt recognized himself, that upgrade would have disrupted the offense, so it's there are pluses and minuses not just pluses.
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 01:55 PM   #24
KevinNYC
Toronto Mayor Rob Ford
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,596
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysunny
What do you mean by "go all out"? As in letting Wilt be a one-man show or demanding a trade?

As for MVP we all know it usually goes to the player with best records. One of Russell's MVP years he wasn't even in All-NBA first team. That makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense if understand that Valuable doesn't necessarily mean best. So the players voter Russell MVP and the writers voted Wilt 1st team all NBA (I believe this was the case.)

What I meant by going all-out is that Russell teammates valued him tremendously and knew he did everything he could to win, so they in turn, tried to play as hard as they could so they wouldn't be the one who let Russell down. Because they depended so much on Russell covering for them defensively. I saw Tommy Heinsohn say this in an interview.


Found the interview. ESPN SportCentury . Go 5 mins in. Right before "Havilcek steals the ball!" Russell screwed up the inbounds pass. Listen to not only what Heinsohn says, but the admiration and respect in his voice. That's something the stats can never reflect.
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 01:58 PM   #25
KevinNYC
Toronto Mayor Rob Ford
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,596
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

It's kind of funny because right after they talk about how much his teammates loved him, they talk about how difficult he was with the press.
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 02:15 PM   #26
Dragonyeuw
Local High School Star
 
Dragonyeuw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,593
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
However, as Wilt recognized himself, that upgrade would have disrupted the offense, so it's there are pluses and minuses not just pluses.

Yes but I'll assume the team would have figured out and made the necessary adjustments. The Celtics were built around what Russell brought to the table, swap him with Wilt and they'd have accommodated what he brought to the table instead.
Dragonyeuw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 02:49 PM   #27
KevinNYC
Toronto Mayor Rob Ford
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,596
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonyeuw
Yes but I'll assume the team would have figured out and made the necessary adjustments. The Celtics were built around what Russell brought to the table, swap him with Wilt and they'd have accommodated what he brought to the table instead.

Perhaps.

But Auerbach went after Russell because he recognized that Russell already HAD what it took to win before he came to the Celtics. His mindset already matched Auerbach's that winning as team was more important than individual achievements. Chamberlain, as even his supporters acknowledge, had some growing up to do before he became a great teammate. If you check out that NBA Basketballography - Bill Russell link that was just posted on the forum, Russell's "need to win" was described as neurotic. Chamberlain used to say his life was richer than Russell's for this reason.

There's a good chance that Auerbach and Wilt would been fighting from day 1.
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 04:38 PM   #28
ThaRegul8r
National High School Star
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,143
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
It's kind of funny because right after they talk about how much his teammates loved him, they talk about how difficult he was with the press.

He only cared about the team.
ThaRegul8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 05:30 PM   #29
Dragonyeuw
Local High School Star
 
Dragonyeuw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,593
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
Perhaps.

But Auerbach went after Russell because he recognized that Russell already HAD what it took to win before he came to the Celtics. His mindset already matched Auerbach's that winning as team was more important than individual achievements. Chamberlain, as even his supporters acknowledge, had some growing up to do before he became a great teammate. If you check out that NBA Basketballography - Bill Russell link that was just posted on the forum, Russell's "need to win" was described as neurotic. Chamberlain used to say his life was richer than Russell's for this reason.

There's a good chance that Auerbach and Wilt would been fighting from day 1.

There's also the possibility that Red 'may' have gotten Wilt to adopt more of a team approach as opposed to Wilt putting up 50 points and 25 rebounds, maybe. It's all just speculation at the end.
Dragonyeuw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2011, 07:14 PM   #30
Crown&Coke
Stay Strong Droth
 
Crown&Coke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: LAnd of the Lost
Posts: 3,769
Default Re: What if Wilt played for the Celtics?

his numbers would take a dip, drastically.

Do you realize how many of those women he got because he played in Philly and LA??? He aint getting those numbers in Boston. And that my friend, is the only number Wilt cared about
Crown&Coke is online now   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:10 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy