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Old 05-18-2011, 03:26 AM   #211
DMAVS41
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomaspynchon
Just as an aside--imagine if Lefraud James did what Dirk tonight. We'd hear comparisons to Jordan nonstop.

Probably, but we don't have to do that.

Dirk is what he is. He's not top ten good of all time. He's probably not top 15 good of all time. After that though? I think its becoming very debatable with or without a title.

His level of play has been pretty damn amazing for 11 straight years now. He's accomplished so much.

I'm just really happy for him that he's finally getting the credit. Hearing Jackson and Van Gundy agree that he's top 25 or so all time was so cool.

No need to over-rate Dirk and compare him to Larry bird after 1 great game so far in this series or something.

Much like Wade, at some point people will wake up and realize just how great Dirk has been going on 11 years now.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:28 AM   #212
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomaspynchon
Durant had the game of his life and Mavs won despite Kidd/Chandler/marion playing like shit.

That was not the game of Duran'ts life. It was a very good game, but he can do that again in this series for sure.

I worry about two things:

1. Keeping Durant/Westbrook off the ft line
2. How the Mavs perform if Dirk is off for a couple games or is hard doubled
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:29 AM   #213
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

That was some performance by dirk, I hope Mavs win the ring he deserves it.
Great player.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:29 AM   #214
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
That was not the game of Duran'ts life. It was a very good game, but he can do that again in this series for sure.

I worry about two things:

1. Keeping Durant/Westbrook off the ft line
2. How the Mavs perform if Dirk is off for a couple games or is hard doubled

It was the absolute game of Durant's life. 18 FTs on the road, at least 6 bail out calls...don't expect that nonsense in Game Two.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:31 AM   #215
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomaspynchon
It was the absolute game of Durant's life. 18 FTs on the road, at least 6 bail out calls...don't expect that nonsense in Game Two.

I'm not going to go against your amazing predictions, but that was not the game of Durant's life.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:31 AM   #216
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
I'm obviously a huge Dirk homer, but I really don't see more than about 20 players all time I think are better. And to be honest, a few of those guys like KG/Barkley/Malone/Robinson/Baylor are all very debatable.
I hear you, but at the same time let's not get too caught up in the moment right now. Remember all the things people were saying about Kobe after his great WCF last year? I think we should wait until this season is over at least before we start re-ranking him all time. It's just weird how in one year, he went from being considered being worse than Pau by a lot of people here (including you I think) to now being debatable with those PFs you listed.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:36 AM   #217
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

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Originally Posted by chazzy
I hear you, but at the same time let's not get too caught up in the moment right now. Remember all the things people were saying about Kobe after his great WCF last year? I think we should wait until this season is over at least before we start re-ranking him all time. It's just weird how in one year, he went from being considered being worse than Pau by a lot of people here (including you I think) to now being comparable to those PFs you listed.

I have never put Pau on Dirk's level all time. Never.

I have Dirk in my top 25 right now. Had him there before the playoffs actually.

I'm not re-ranking him at all. He's already proven to be in that tier. Its going to take a few more years at an elite level to move up.

My point is that a lot of the things people hate on Dirk for are very much true with that 15 to 30 range of players all time. Stockton/Barkley/Malone/Baylor never won anything.

At some point people will wake up and realize just how good Dirk has actually been and how he's raised his game in the playoffs repeatedly.

11 straight years of over 50 wins and 26/11/3 for his career in the playoffs. Played with ONLY 1 PLAYER IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER TO MAKE AN ALL NBA TEAM. Thats it. Steve Nash. Only player Dirk ever played with to do that.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:37 AM   #218
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
I'm not going to go against your amazing predictions, but that was not the game of Durant's life.

It was THE game of his life. No way in hell does he get 18 FTS in Game Two, especially of the nature he received.

he may score 40 again this series but it will take him at least 25 shots to get there.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:39 AM   #219
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
I have never put Pau on Dirk's level all time. Never.

I have Dirk in my top 25 right now. Had him there before the playoffs actually.

I'm not re-ranking him at all. He's already proven to be in that tier. Its going to take a few more years at an elite level to move up.

My point is that a lot of the things people hate on Dirk for are very much true with that 15 to 30 range of players all time. Stockton/Barkley/Malone/Baylor never won anything.

At some point people will wake up and realize just how good Dirk has actually been and how he's raised his game in the playoffs repeatedly.

11 straight years of over 50 wins and 26/11/3 for his career in the playoffs. Played with ONLY 1 PLAYER IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER TO MAKE AN ALL NBA TEAM. Thats it. Steve Nash. Only player Dirk ever played with to do that.
RE: Pau - Not all time, I meant as players.. I think you had him above Dirk last year.

But yeah.. the length of his prime is impressive as hell and he hasn't shown any obvious signs of slowing down this season. With how skilled he is at that size, he's going to be effective for a long time. Having that kind of longevity to go along with more potentially deep playing runs for the next couple years really helps his all time ranking. I was referring more to comparing him to DRob/KG/Barkley in terms of actual play.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:44 AM   #220
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

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Originally Posted by chazzy
RE: Pau - Not all time, I meant as players.. I think you had him above Dirk last year.

But yeah.. the length of his prime is impressive as hell and he hasn't shown any obvious signs of slowing down this season. With how skilled he is at that size, he's going to be effective for a long time. Having that kind of longevity to go along with more potentially deep playing runs for the next couple years really helps his all time ranking. I was referring more to comparing him to DRob/KG/Barkley in terms of actual play.

Pau in the playoffs last year definitely deserved consideration over Dirk for best PF. Pau was great in the playoffs. I think he put up like 20/11/4 and played solid defense and was super clutch. I have no problem with someone taking Gasol last over Dirk. For sure.

Just not even close all time though.

About drob/kg/barkely......well. I rank them over Dirk, but to be perfectly honest, I don't think they were much better players. They did some different things of course. Robinson and KG were great defenders and Barkley was just a beast on the boards. But Dirk's ability to close games and carry a team offensively late is also very important. And while Dirk's peak isn't as good as those guys, his longevity might ultimately trump that.

But again. I have all of those guys over Dirk now and will for the next few years even if Dirk wins a title this year. Its going to take a lot to move Dirk up. He's just definitely in that tier as a player.
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:50 AM   #221
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

Mavs are up 1-0.

No more no less.
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Old 05-18-2011, 05:57 AM   #222
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

well, if i were an OKC fan, i wouldn't be panicking. there's a couple different things they can try with dirk.

- they have to bump him to get him off rhythm. hopefully the refs allow more physicality as the series goes on. OKC just has to get dirk from getting deep post position. from 12-15 feet, the guy is just too lethal. he's playing at an elite level right now.

- secondly, they can try fronting dirk. when they do this, perk has to watch what's going on so he can slide over for help if there's a lob. other than that, dirk is just gonna keep getting his. he's too good to not score but you can make it more difficult for him. OR you can have westbrook apply more pressure on kidd to make the pass more difficult. take something away. dirk getting the ball in rhythm in his favorite spots will kill OKC

- durant will score plenty too. i think this will come down to bench play and westbrook playing in a well controlled manner. westbrook seems to get impatient if a play doesn't develop right away. i'm not sure how much blame brooks gets for that but he should work the pick n' roll with harden as a 2nd option.

- maynor didn't have a very good game but i still think brooks should go to him earlier. 15-20 mins sounds about right.

i look forward to at least some of these adjustments. this dallas team is definitely a complete team though. dirk makes you pay when you double off a 3 point shooter. barea collapses the paint and then you either give up a lay up or a kick out for a 3. i'll repeat what i said earlier, this is a jack of trade type of team. they are good in many areas. OKC will have to beat dallas because dallas isn't going to beat themselves.
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Old 05-18-2011, 05:59 AM   #223
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

3 players with 18+ FT attempts? Kinda glad I elected to sleep instead of watch this game.

But damn, Dirk's stat line is INSANE. Just think about it. He shot the ball 39 times in an NBA playoff game, and only missed 3 of those shots. Granted, 24 were free throws, but GOT DAYUM. That's still absolutely absurd.
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Old 05-18-2011, 06:21 AM   #224
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

This has to be one of the most underrated performances ever. Yeah, people are kissing his ass, but had this been Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Rose, Durant, or any other media darling this would be in every goddamn paper, on every goddamn website, talked about in every goddamn TV show/game show/slide show/blah blah blah blah blah...

92%. 92 ****ing percent. That's ridiculous.
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Old 05-18-2011, 06:23 AM   #225
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki 12-of-15, 24-of-24 FT for 48 points in Thunder-Mavericks WCF Game 1!

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Originally Posted by LA_Showtime
This has to be one of the most underrated performances ever. Yeah, people are kissing his ass, but had this been Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Rose, Durant, or any other media darling this would be in every goddamn paper, on every goddamn website, talked about in every goddamn TV show/game show/slide show/blah blah blah blah blah...

True, but Dirk fans are used to it. It will never change. Probably wouldn't even change if Dirk won a title this year.

On ISH alone there was more hate for Dirk than praise. Numerous threads made by Kobe stans and Thunder fans bitching about free throws....which is priceless because the Thunder actually shot 7 more free throws and durant and westbrook combined to shoot 37 free throws....1 more than the entire mavs team.

No matter what Dirk does, he'll never get the same kind of credit. Is what it is.
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