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Old 05-18-2011, 07:21 PM   #61
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

LMFAO if Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker get drafted 4th
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:27 PM   #62
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

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Originally Posted by 8BeastlyXOIAD
LMFAO if Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker get drafted 4th

You do realize Brandon Knight is a top 5 pick in a lot of mocks and there's a decent chance the Jazz take him at #3, don't you?
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:28 PM   #63
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

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You do realize there's a VERY good chance Brandon Knight goes 3rd to the Jazz, don't you?

Goes to show you how bad this draft is
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:29 PM   #64
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

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Originally Posted by KG215
You do realize there's a VERY good chance Brandon Knight goes 3rd to the Jazz, don't you?

Not white. Utah is gonna trade down to get Jimmer.
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:32 PM   #65
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

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Originally Posted by noob cake
Not white. Utah is gonna trade down to get Jimmer.

Why? They've already got the #12 and #3 pick. They don't need to trade down to get Jimmer. If they want him then he'll probably be there at #12.

I think Alec Burks is a very good fit for them at SG if he's there at #12. At #3 they can either go with Brandon Knight or, shop Millsap or Jefferson, and take Kanter.
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:36 PM   #66
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

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Originally Posted by KG215
I don't either.

There are reasons why Derrick Williams isn't the consensus #1 overall pick and Kyrie Irving is.

1. Some people seem to believe Williams is an NBA SF and only a SF. He's not. In fact, the one thing that may hurt his NBA is that he's such a tweener, that it may time a few years for Williams to develop the necessary skills to legitimately define his NBA position. He's got some NBA SF skills but I'm not sure he's a good enough or fluid enough with his ball-handling to create his own shot off the bounce against other NBA SF's.

2. I do not think Kyrie Irving is the second coming of Chris Paul or even a future top 5 NBA point guard. However, there are not many weaknesses to his game. Irving is a legit 6'1" or 6'2" which is good size for an NBA PG, he can score from all three levels on the floor, and he's a good playmaker. Some Cleveland and NBA fans seem to believe that Baron Davis and Ramon Sessions are their future at the PG position. Davis is already 32 years old and you've already seen what Ramon Sessions is going to be as far as his ceiling as an NBA PG. In terms of overall status and impact, Irving may top out at what a prime Baron Davis was 5-7 years ago. And, who knows, Irving may peak as a multiple all-star top 3-5 PG for a few years.

3. Back to Derrick Williams. I do think Williams has the highest ceiling in this draft class but that's not necessarily saying a whole lot. Like I've already said, Williams is an elite level athlete with a good perimeter jumper. He's very explosive to the rim. Some of the dunks I saw him pull-off at Arizona were reminiscent of what you see Amare Stoudemire and Blake Griffin pull-off in the NBA. I'm not saying he'll be as good as either one of those players but the tools are there. He's smaller than both and, just going by the eye-ball test, he doesn't appear to have great length to make up for his 6'7" or 6'8" frame if he is indeed an NBA PF.

In the end, though, I wouldn't call it a terrible or even a bad pick if Cleveland went with Derrick Williams. I just think Kyrie Irving is a better fit for Cleveland and they very well could get an Enes Kanter at #4. Kanter doesn't have necessarily have the ceiling of Derrick Williams but I think he does have the potential to develop into a very good 3rd option on a playoff caliber team.
Agreed on all points.

I'm actually a big fan of Williams' game, but I think he has much more impact at PF than he does SF. He has a huge wingspan and can really gobble up rebounds when he is around the rim. I know that he is only 6-foot-8 and that people are obsessed with measurables, but Williams' current game is best suited for the 4.

All of that said, our best asset is a power forward (JJ Hickson). If there is one spot on the roster that we really don't need to address, it is PF. Hickson is young and he showed himself to be a solid NBA player in the second half of last season with potential to be a cornerstone player.

So, if Williams was drafted by the Cavs, he would have to pretty much revamp his game to fit into the SF position. Now, he seems like a great athlete and he has a nice shot, so maybe he does eventually develop the handle and control to become a guy who can create from the perimeter, but the question then becomes...

If the two best players in this draft seem to be Williams and Irving, why would the Cavs take the guy who is currently at his best at the position JJ Hickson plays and it may take a few years for him to adjust to a position he has never played over the other top guy, who actually plays a position that we need?

Throw on top of all that... Byron Scott is our head coach. He has proven, over the years, that his teams perform best when he is able to acquire a young point guard prospect who can be taught his system right off of the bat. Irving gives the opportunity to Scott to have 'his guy' running the show and to implement his offense on a young team.

Irving just makes sense. Like I said, if we want Williams in addition to Irving, we can probably get him without giving up a ton being that we have the No. 4 pick and Minnesota doesn't have a place for Williams.

Doing something like that makes more sense to me than taking Williams No. 1.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 05-18-2011 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:36 PM   #67
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

Cavs need a big for the future. In the top 5, you draft a big... big... big.

Next year, get a wing.
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:42 PM   #68
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Agreed on all points.

I'm actually a big fan of Williams' game, but I think he has much more impact at PF than he does SF. He has a huge wingspan and can really gobble up rebounds when he is around the rim. I know that he is only 6-foot-8 and that people are obsessed with measurables, but Williams' current game is best suited for the 4.

All of that said, our best asset is a power forward (JJ Hickson). If there is one spot on the roster that we really don't need to address, it is PF. Hickson is young and he showed himself to be a solid NBA player in the second half of last season with potential to be a cornerstone player.

So, if Williams was drafted by the Cavs, he would have to pretty much revamp his game to fit into the SF position. Now, he seems like a great athlete and he has a nice shot, so maybe he does eventually develop the handle and control to become a guy who can create from the perimeter, but the question then becomes...

If the two best players in this draft seem to be Williams and Irving, why would the Cavs take the guy who is currently at his best at the position JJ Hickson plays and it may take a few years for him to adjust to a position he has never played over the other top guy, who actually plays a position that we need?

Throw on top of all that... Byron Scott is our head coach. He has proven, over the years, that his teams perform best when he is able to acquire a young point guard prospect who can be taught his system right off of the bat. Irving gives the opportunity to Scott to have 'his guy' running the show and to implement his offense on a young team.

Irving just makes sense. Like I said, if we want Williams in addition to Irving, we can probably get him without giving up a ton being that we have the No. 4 pick and Minnesota doesn't have a place for Williams.

Doing something like that makes more sense to me than taking Williams No. 1.


All of that is basically my exact thinking as well, but we seem to be in the minority for some reason.

Last edited by KG215 : 05-18-2011 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:42 PM   #69
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

Neither is special, so who cares ...

Feel bad for Cleveland

They got another #1 pick and a #4 pick in the weakest draft since 2001.
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:45 PM   #70
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleezeBelieve
Cavs need a big for the future. In the top 5, you draft a big... big... big.

Next year, get a wing.

Your boy Valanciunas may not even be able to come to the NBA for several years and, besides, if you're going to take a PF or C in the top 5 of the draft there are two better options: Derrick Williams and Enes Kanter.
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:52 PM   #71
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG215
All of that is basically my exact thinking as well, but we seem to be in the minority for some reason.
I don't think we are in the minority. I've been listening to Cleveland sports radio all day and everyone is pretty much assuming that it is a foregone conclusion... Irving is the pick. Most of the discussion has been about the No. 4 pick.

They even had Chris Grant (Cavs GM) on and, although he didn't tip his hat one way or the other, if you read between the lines, you can see where they are going.

We can discuss why Irving should be the pick or, for those that think Williams would be a better fit, they can chime in with their opinions.

But, at the end of the day, rest assured... Irving is the pick.
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Old 05-18-2011, 08:00 PM   #72
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Swoosh
Neither is special, so who cares ...

Feel bad for Cleveland

They got another #1 pick and a #4 pick in the weakest draft since 2001.
I don't even need someone 'special,' as you term it. I want to solidify the PG position, which Irving will do. The draft is a crap-shoot, anyway. Once in a while, a guy like LeBron or Rose will come along and you will be pretty sure that they are going to be superstars, but you can't rely on that to re-shape your franchise.

You do it through addressing each position with young talent. Irving is young and talented... Plus, I really like the interviews that I've seen with him. He isn't a braggart and he seems to have a good head on his shoulders.

I could see him and Byron Scott forming a pretty nice player/coach relationship in helping the Cavs get back to relevancy.

Outside of that, this 'weak' draft stuff is simple speculation. We just watched a guy last night turn in one of the great offensive performances in playoff history and he was a member of what was considered a 'weak' draft after the first four picks (1998). There was no hype surrounding him and some people questioned the pick at No. 9...

None of us know exactly how good any of these guys are going to be.

I"ll give you another example... When the Cavs turned in their best draft in franchise history (no, it wasn't 2003), that was also considered an extremely weak draft that teams were trying to trade out of (1986). As a result of the idea that the draft was 'weak,' we were able to acquire extra picks...

In that single draft, we got Brad Daugherty, Ron Harper, and Mark Price. The franchise was literally rebuilt in that one 'weak' draft.


Any way you look at it, last night was a good night to be a Cavs' fan.... And there will be all-star caliber players in this draft, just like there are in every draft. It is our front office's job to find those guys and make the right picks.
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Old 05-18-2011, 08:01 PM   #73
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG215
Your boy Valanciunas may not even be able to come to the NBA for several years and, besides, if you're going to take a PF or C in the top 5 of the draft there are two better options: Derrick Williams and Enes Kanter.
Agreed.

If we don't get Irving and Williams, I will be happy with Irving and Kanter.

Kyrie Irving/Baron Davis/Ramon Sessions
Anthony Parker(?)/Manny Harris/Alonzo Gee
Antawn Jamison/Christian Eyenga
JJ Hickson/Samardo Samuels (a lot of people are forgetting how good Samuels was last year)
Anderson Varejao/Enes Kanter/Semih Erden

That is not a bad roster... And it is filled with young talent. No one is saying that this is going to be an immediate championship contender, but you don't rebuild in one year... This is a process and I like the pieces that a Irving/Kanter combo would give us on the roster.

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Old 05-18-2011, 08:01 PM   #74
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG215
Your boy Valanciunas may not even be able to come to the NBA for several years and, besides, if you're going to take a PF or C in the top 5 of the draft there are two better options: Derrick Williams and Enes Kanter.
Kanter is a 6-9ish Center who can't jump and has limited agility.

Do you people understand what wins in this league??? Not undersized power forwards and centers. You need length and mobility on the front line.
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Old 05-18-2011, 08:03 PM   #75
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Default Re: Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Agreed.

If we don't get Irving and Williams, I will be happy with Irving and Kanter.
Dude you're not winning championships with a 6'10 Center who plays below the rim.

Sh*t is so frustrating. Many of you have no idea what you're talking about.
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