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Old 12-18-2006, 02:41 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
This is the problem. The league didnt have an image problem back then when that happened. Bird and Dr J werent percieved like Carmelo Anthony is percieved today. Thats the problem here. Guys now are being considered "thugs" for fighting, brawls (cant defend the malace at the palace) when before they werent. Charles Oakley is considered an "enforcer" and some fans sigh and wish the Detroit Bad Boys style of player still existed today. But they were never considered thugs to my knowledge. "Bad Boys" was about as far as it went.

Times have changed and so has the leagues image. Thats why Lebrom all smiles James is being promoted. Thats why the golden boy Kobe Bryant was being promoted as the face of the league. All about image.

Football is going thru the same changes. You cant touch the QB nowadays. Back then? You could bodyslam the QB. Back then guys were getting speared with the crown of thier helemts. A lot of stuff went on back then that has been eliminated and/or lessened today. You get in trouble for celebrating but back then Deion Sanders had videos in the endzone...all he was missing was his backup dancers. Now? 15yd penalty, fine, warnings.

So what happened back then happened back then and no longer has any relation to today. So you cant continue to look back and point to this and that and compare to today. Sern has spoke on this so I'm basically relaying his points so to speak here. Some things i dont agree with, others i do. But most importantly i acknowledge what he attempting to do. NFL is doing the same as well. Wont say i side with it but i understand, i get it. Not many do because they still are lookin at the photo with Dr J choking Bird and then lookin at Melo sucker punching someone and getting 15gms.

I understand the rationale of many things that happen in this world. But I dont have to agree with them. My first post was venting some heat, but I am really annoyed by those suspensions. And I feel rightfully so.
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Old 12-18-2006, 02:42 PM   #32
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If Artest or AI had done it instead of Melo, how many days do you think they would have got?
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Old 12-18-2006, 02:42 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvenile
I understand the rationale of many things that happen in this world. But I dont have to agree with them. My first post was venting some heat. I am really annoyed by those suspensions. And I feel rightfully so.

You're not alone.
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Old 12-18-2006, 02:45 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jerm
Hockey players fight all the time, I don't see people throwing 15 game suspensions around.
They're also admired for their fights by their fans while basketball players are criticized and called thugs.

Stern believes, and I agree, that basketball players because of their visibility have to be held to higher standards
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Old 12-18-2006, 02:52 PM   #35
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while theses suspensions arent too crazy....im a lil disapointed by the carmelo one....I think it might get reduced to 10 to 12 games after arbitration....what he did was wrong and the nba doesnt need cheap shots(see kermit washington) but 5 games more than everyone else seems a lil too much

Also Im dissapointed by the Jared Jeffries one he should have got 6 to 8 for choking and also acting crazy

and with Isiah...the league messed up on that one....they are trying to clean up the image and clearly ordering a hard foul and talking trash with players is not doing that
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Old 12-18-2006, 02:52 PM   #36
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I agree with Stern. It really sucks for the teams, but suspending players isn't going to hurt the league much, if at all. However, suspending players can dramatically help the league if the image can be helped (always remember the almighty dollar of the NBA). So Stern would rather over-penalize rather than risk under-penalizing. Rightly so. Stern can protect his interests as is fitting.

Doesn't everyone see that Stern has been changing the NBA into a league where you must use your head before you do stupid stuff?

The NBA does not need fights (contrary to some opinions). If players can't control themselves, then let them go play hockey or basketball with their friends (who probably wouldn't be friends for long if they kept getting into fights).

15 games? I think that's just a slap on the wrist.
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Old 12-18-2006, 02:53 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JalenRawley
Yeah, 'cause what we need is 30 threads of this on the front page, as usual.

This could have been merged with the other topic i created.
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Old 12-18-2006, 02:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yobore
They're also admired for their fights by their fans while basketball players are criticized and called thugs.

Stern believes, and I agree, that basketball players because of their visibility have to be held to higher standards

Weird isn't it?...Especially when you take into account that both players often fight for the same reasons. Excessive and unneccessary contact.
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Charles Oakley is considered an "enforcer" and some fans sigh and wish the Detroit Bad Boys style of player still existed today. But they were never considered thugs to my knowledge. "Bad Boys" was about as far as it went.

Well, I definitely have a Chicago slant with things, as it's where I've grown up. Here in Chicago the Bad Boys were definitely looked upon as thugs. With the "Jordan Rules" and Rodman slamming Pippen into a the backboard support, Chicago media definitely portrayed the Pistons as the team to hate.

Bill Laimbeer was definitely a thug, and pretty much everyone who played with him would agree with that assessment. He would play you physical and try to get you mad, which took you out of your game. Rick Mahorn was another guy who would just pound you to a pulp, and before he was on the Pistons, he was on the Bullets with another bruiser named Jeff Ruland.

Later, in the second Three-Peat, we used to have to deal with a bruiser by the name of Frank Brickowski. Sounds like the name of the center on the bad guys' team from some awful Saturday morning basketball movie starring the retards from "You Got Served". But ol' Brick would beat the piss out of anyone who came into the lane, and George Karl loved throwing him in just to get a rise out of Dennis Rodman and try and get him ejected.

Charles Oakley was mentioned, Jerome Kersey is another. These days, Danny Fortson's still around, so is Dale Davis, and possibly a couple others. It seems like for a while there, the refs were targetting big guys who played physical. Guys like Fortson would get five whistles on five successive plays, no matter what they did. The new brand of enforcers comes smaller, maybe because they're less obvious.. Bruce Bowen, Raja Bell, Ruben Patterson, Reggie Evans.. and only Reggie for his scrotal scrum tactics.

But the NBA definitely has seen a decline of the enforcer for a while now. I guess if you're a big enough marketing success (*cough* Shaq *cough*) you get a free pass ;)
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:14 PM   #40
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I think Stern went really lenient with the suspensions. Considering all the image-cleanup things he's done lately, I'm surprised that 15 games was the max here. I think Robinson should have gotten at least 20 for the tackle and Melo 20 for the punch. Jeffries got lucky with only 4 games because he went after somebody, I probably would have given him 10 games for it.
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:16 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Timmeh
I think Robinson should have gotten at least 20 for the tackle and Melo 20 for the punch.
That's a fourth of the season. You REALLY think they should have been suspended for that long?
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yobore
They're also admired for their fights by their fans while basketball players are criticized and called thugs.

Stern believes, and I agree, that basketball players because of their visibility have to be held to higher standards
Really this is why the subplot is beyond the actually length of the suspension but the interpretation and expectation of those suspensions.

While you can applaud Stern for his quick and "stern" punishment, in retrospect to the fines and suspension other major sports for similar offenses, was it fair or practical? In basebal would you get suspended 15% of the season based on a bench player sucker-punching another player during a bench clearing brawl? Ditto for hockey. That's why I believe Stern is putting his neck out on this one.

Plus with the growing upswell about the leagues' front offices having a lack of perspective and connection with it's very players (who are mostly African-American) that help generate it's revenue...these suspensions will get more of the treatment versus one of from the media. And if that's indeed the case, expect Stern to come out the loser here in the court of public opinion.
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:18 PM   #43
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Carmelo better fight it. Jermaine only had to serve a 15-game suspension and he punched a fan...
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:19 PM   #44
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i hate arbitration.

i kinda hope stern gets any player back who fights there suspension. maybe disallow anyone from baltimore to play outside of maryland and washington d.c.
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:24 PM   #45
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this is great, Pau comes back, then Melo gets suspended, which means the Grizz have a chance to make a move on a playoff spot!
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