Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-13-2013, 09:24 AM   #1576
DonD13
glew up ☆
 
DonD13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ☂
Posts: 15,662
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Mayweather generally doesn't talk much about upcoming opponents and never really has. With the exception of the nightmare Pacquiao negotiations, his fights usually are put together quickly and behind closed doors with no media haggling.

Schaefer says he is in talks and that all parties want it to happen. And, I don't see why he would be hesitant given the success Trout had against Canelo. Throw in reported disappointing PPV numbers for Floyd...

It makes a lot more sense from Floyd's POV than it does Canelo's, imo. Of course, none of us truly know what is happening at the negotiating table. It's just speculation. I do find it sort of funny that everyone assumes Mayweather is dodging Alvarez and it couldn't be possible that the 22-year-old guy everyone wants to beat him maybe isn't quite ready yet.

It's like guys on the cusp of true stardom in America would have nothing to lose and no reason to fear a fight with Mayweather, universally thought of as the best fighter in the sport... But Mayweather fears everyone.

maybe because Floyd had trouble with Cotto who's a weaker fighter than Trout

If Floyd takes him, it would be a great move imho!

But I doubt that we can agree here on anything since you're one of the very rare people who think Guerrero is a more dangerous fighter than Canelo...
DonD13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 11:53 AM   #1577
SCREWstonRockets
Houston Texan
 
SCREWstonRockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Clutch City 2K9
Posts: 3,828
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
I do find it sort of funny that everyone assumes Mayweather is dodging Alvarez and it couldn't be possible that the 22-year-old guy everyone wants to beat him maybe isn't quite ready yet.


How much more ready does he need to be? This is a win win situation for Canelo, any way you slice it. If he wins, he beats the top guy. If he loses, he loses to the top guy. No shame in that. Just being in the same ring with Floyd can help him became an even bigger star. On name recognition alone (Ortiz in the mainstream, Gurerro no longer unknown). Kinda like how Floyd and Manny became much more popular after fighting Oscar.

You also got to factor in, after what happened with the Floyd Manny fiasco, it's better to get the fight done sooner rather than later. Like you mentioned, Canelo is beatable. If they keep holding off until "he's ready", who says he doesn't lose a fight before this one can happen and ruin everything? Lots of risk involved.

Canelo needs this fight, Floyd does not. Floyd makes money regardless of who he fights (low PPV buys was falsely reported). So if Floyd wants a catch weight, Canelo will have to play by his rules.
SCREWstonRockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 12:26 PM   #1578
PK3434
Good Golly!
 
PK3434's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,628
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCREWstonRockets
How much more ready does he need to be? This is a win win situation for Canelo, any way you slice it. If he wins, he beats the top guy. If he loses, he loses to the top guy. No shame in that. Just being in the same ring with Floyd can help him became an even bigger star. On name recognition alone (Ortiz in the mainstream, Gurerro no longer unknown). Kinda like how Floyd and Manny became much more popular after fighting Oscar.

You also got to factor in, after what happened with the Floyd Manny fiasco, it's better to get the fight done sooner rather than later. Like you mentioned, Canelo is beatable. If they keep holding off until "he's ready", who says he doesn't lose a fight before this one can happen and ruin everything? Lots of risk involved.

Canelo needs this fight, Floyd does not. Floyd makes money regardless of who he fights (low PPV buys was falsely reported). So if Floyd wants a catch weight, Canelo will have to play by his rules.

I think they both need this fight, which is why I believe it will get made...But yes, I think Canelo will have to drop a couple pounds. Floyd is getting boatloads of guaranteed money from Showtime, true...but if he really wants to retire in a couple years hes going to need as much money as he can get..Floyd apparently already spends just a much as he makes if not more...that habit isn't going to die after boxing. this is a possible 2 million ppv selling fight.
PK3434 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 01:00 PM   #1579
Wally450
A Paul Heyman Guy
 
Wally450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,272
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Random question, if I were to buy tickets for a big fight.. say a Mayweather fight next year or sometime, what would the ballpark price be for seats? Most likely the fight would be at the MGM Grand. Anyone know any prices?
Wally450 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 06:17 PM   #1580
Beatlezz
Champ;ipnsikp!
 
Beatlezz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Maimi
Posts: 2,090
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Here's the thing... The article I posted:

Quote:
A. Was written two days ago, not in 2011 like the quote you cited. It was easy for Canelo to say that back then... GBP wasn't prepared to put him in against Mayweather in 2011, so he could basically say whatever he wanted without having to live up to it. Plus, he had just moved up from 147 about a year prior to making that statement. I would hope he could get down to 150 just a year after moving up. Now, we are talking about three years after fighting at 147 and a fight that actually may happen. Things change when it becomes a real negotiation, not just talking randomly to the press.

I agree, and Canelo is willing to drop to 150 right now.

Quote:
B. The article I posted was written by Dan Rafael two days ago. Why would he lie about Canelo not wanting to move down to 150? It isn't like he's pro-Mayweather. Quite the contrary, actually... He's been very critical of Floyd in the past.

Also, he's ESPN's chief boxing analyst and probably the most connected media guy in the sport, just by having that position. I'm not a huge fan of Rafael, but if he's reporting Canelo is adamant about not moving down, there's no reason to believe he's just making it up for sh!ts and giggles. This isn't some obscure blogger, here.

Man, I don't give a damn even if it was Jesus who wrote that article. Jesus is not a member of Canelo's team what the fukk does he know? Now Canelo's trainer Chepo Reynoso, (This isn't some obscure random crackhead trainer here) confirmed that they did propose the idea of having a catch-weight, which Mayweather rejected. Who should I believe here? Fat Dan or the trainer?

http://www.boxingscene.com/canelos-t...-weight--65430

Quote:
I don't think Canelo is ready to fight Mayweather, personally, so I would understand why he may opt for a couple more fights before stepping in against him. I started to get the feeling maybe the Canelo team wasn't wild about this fight this soon pretty much right off the bat when Mayweather won last week.

C'mon man.. Your opinion and feelings =/= TRUTH. Canelo has been wanting to fight Floyd for quite some time now and everyone knows it.

Quote:
The first response out of Canelo's camp when the potential fight was mentioned was that "they didn't think Mayweather or Cotto would fight him next."

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2013/05/...eptember-14th/

Let's not twist things here, this is the reason why they didn't think Floyd would fight him:

Quote:
Canelo Questions Mayweather For Breaking Fight Promise

WBC 154-pound champion Saul "Canelo" Alvarez (41-0-1, 30KOs) questions the true intentions of Floyd Mayweather Jr. (43-0, 26KOs), after the two boxers had a fallout over a verbal agreement related to a potential fall fight.

According to Canelo, the two of them reached a verbal agreement on terms and Mayweather was going to sign a contract to fight Canelo in September. In exchange for his signature, Canelo would appear in the co-feature position to Mayweather's fight with Robert Guerrero on May 4th at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.

Once the card was officially announced, Canelo says Mayweather refused to sign his end of the deal. The Mexican superstar alleges that Mayweather was trying his use his name to boost the pay-per-view numbers, and tickets sales, on Cinco De Mayo weekend.

Canelo withdrew from the show and reached a deal to face WBA champion Austin Trout (26-0, 14KOs) on April 20th at the Alamodome in San Antonio, Texas.

"I said this beforehand, that if Mayweather did not sign [the contract] I would not be fighting on his event. He said he would sign and then it dragged on and later on he refused, and that's why we moved to a new date. I do not need him and I proved it. Now we are very satisfied, we're going to fight with a good opponent and we are going to have a great fight, a great event and that's what counts right now," Canelo said.

http://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-qu...promise--63037

Quote:
Now, a couple days later -- just as it is reported talks are beginning -- and his trainer is saying the negotiations have already taken place and Floyd refused to move up. Wow... it didn't take long for him to go to the press, did it? And this after Rafael point-blank said Alvarez isn't budging from 154?


Meanwhile, Richard Schaefer is presenting a completely different mood on the other side...

http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/inde...eather-al.html

I thought you said "Things change when it becomes a real negotiation." Did you really believe that?

If you have ever made a decision in your life in the blink of an eye, this is something that I expect you to understand. Even life and death decisions can be made in a matter of second.

Did Fat Dan even quoted Canelo? No. He just said it. When was the last time he heard Canelo's team talking about Canelo not wanting to move down in weight? Sure, Canelo may not be willing to fight below 154 at some point in time, but NOW he's willing to, and again it's the only thing that matters.

Quote:
My personal opinion is that Mayweather wants the fight, Showtime DEFINITELY wants the fight and GBP may or may not want the fight this soon (probably not, if I had to guess). It doesn't sound like Team Alvarez wants the fight this soon... And I don't blame them one bit.

I could post a bunch of articles and interviews here about Canelo wanting to fight Floyd but I won't cause you would just twist it.

Quote:
Trout was absolutely Canelo's toughest bout to date, by a longshot. Canelo was out-boxed for much of that fight, I felt, and despite their public face and the outlandish scoring, I'm sure Canelo's team realizes it too. Four months later, they're going to shove the 22-year-old in against Mayweather? When Alvarez is just beginning to breakthrough into the mainstream sports public in America?

I wouldn't do it this soon if I were them. And it sounds as though they'd like to look elsewhere for the time being.

Team Canelo: " We want to fight Mayweather."
...

Team RedBlackAttack: "It doesn't sound like Team Alvarez wants the fight."



Quote:
Canelo's fellow countryman feels the same way, btw...

http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/inde...er_oppone.html

Don't care what Antonio Banderas feels. Many thought Leon Spinks was not ready for Muhammad Ali too.
Beatlezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 07:04 PM   #1581
qrich
King Heno
 
qrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Tucson/520!
Posts: 19,139
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by magic chiongson
not for long..they'll prolly match him up with rigo soon

And I'm fine with that. He's 37, a champ in 3 Divisions (I think its 3?), arguable HOFer. That would be a fight where he would have a shot if he can land a few of his punches. Don't get me wrong, he'll probably be a 8-to-1 underdog, and most likely lose by UD, but if he can get a just a three punch flurry, think he could pull the upset.
qrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 08:44 PM   #1582
SCREWstonRockets
Houston Texan
 
SCREWstonRockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Clutch City 2K9
Posts: 3,828
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally450
Random question, if I were to buy tickets for a big fight.. say a Mayweather fight next year or sometime, what would the ballpark price be for seats? Most likely the fight would be at the MGM Grand. Anyone know any prices?

For common folks, they're unaffordable. I believe lowest ticket for that last fight $100. However, you can wait until the fight is like a week or a few days away and tickets can be had for under retail using sites like seatgeek.
SCREWstonRockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 10:56 PM   #1583
L.Kizzle
ISH's Negro Historian
 
L.Kizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Houston, TX -
Posts: 36,522
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Pascal vs. Bute has been rescheduled for December 7th or January 25th of next year.
L.Kizzle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 01:49 AM   #1584
L.Kizzle
ISH's Negro Historian
 
L.Kizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Houston, TX -
Posts: 36,522
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Guys, Mayweather is gonna fight Canelo ... just not this September.

Mayweather wants him to build his fan base. He's never ever headlined a PPV. He wants it to be as huge as it can be.

The earliest this fight happens is September of next year, but I'm thinkin' May 2015.

By then, Canelo can have fights with Cotto (his first PPV), Lara/Angulo winner and Victor Ortiz. IF he wins out like he's supposed too, he'll be even bigger than he is now.
L.Kizzle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 01:54 AM   #1585
RedBlackAttack
The Paterfamilias
 
RedBlackAttack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The "Q"
Posts: 28,022
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD13
maybe because Floyd had trouble with Cotto who's a weaker fighter than Trout

If Floyd takes him, it would be a great move imho!

But I doubt that we can agree here on anything since you're one of the very rare people who think Guerrero is a more dangerous fighter than Canelo...
I never said that.
RedBlackAttack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:15 AM   #1586
RedBlackAttack
The Paterfamilias
 
RedBlackAttack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The "Q"
Posts: 28,022
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatlezz
I agree, and Canelo is willing to drop to 150 right now.
According to... his trainer?

I wonder what Floyd Mayweather Sr. would say Floyd is willing to do and who he would fight. I wonder if anyone would take anything he said seriously? You are believing what you want to believe and disregarding the rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatlezz
Man, I don't give a damn even if it was Jesus who wrote that article. Jesus is not a member of Canelo's team what the fukk does he know? Now Canelo's trainer Chepo Reynoso, (This isn't some obscure random crackhead trainer here) confirmed that they did propose the idea of having a catch-weight, which Mayweather rejected. Who should I believe here? Fat Dan or the trainer?

Trainers have a vested interest in having you believe a specific narrative. They're probably the most biased source you can talk to. Things trainers say should always be taken with an enormous grain of salt.

I'm sure if it were Floyd Sr. making the comments, you'd buy into them 100-percent, right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatlezz
C'mon man.. Your opinion and feelings =/= TRUTH. Canelo has been wanting to fight Floyd for quite some time now and everyone knows it.
It doesn't really matter what Canelo wants. He is fighting under GBP and he has a team behind him who makes fights happen or not happen. He is still just 22. They would have very solid reasons for not wanting to make the fight happen.

Unlike the people who despise Floyd, I'm not saying Canelo is personally frightened of fighting Mayweather. That is silly, just like it's silly when people say it on the other side of the equation.

There are a lot of variables that go into making a fight.

Furthermore, you are the pot calling the kettle black. Rafael clearly stated in his article that Canelo doesn't want to fight below 154. You flatly refuse to believe it and, instead, are going all-in on whatever Alvarez's trainer has to say.

Funny, because I could easily find a conflicting quote from Mayweather's trainer.

Quote:
I don't see him being a problem for Floyd... The weight doesn't matter [with the fight being at 154].

http://www.boxingscene.com/floyd-may...-canelo--65400

So, since you buy into whatever a trainer says, the weight doesn't matter to Floyd, right? Or, is it case sensitive? Do you only believe Canelo's trainers now?

There is a clear conflict in what they're saying.

As for the article you posted, it has no bearing on current negotiations. When is the last time Mayweather or any other fighter who was considered the biggest PPV draw in the sport (Pacquiao, for instance) had a guaranteed clause for more than the most immediate fight on the table?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatlezz
Did Fat Dan even quoted Canelo? No. He just said it. When was the last time he heard Canelo's team talking about Canelo not wanting to move down in weight? Sure, Canelo may not be willing to fight below 154 at some point in time, but NOW he's willing to, and again it's the only thing that matters.

Why would he say it publicly? Legitimate negotiations aren't done through quotes in the press, which is why I'm questioning Alvarez's trainer going to the press this soon in talks.

Fighters, trainers, promoters, etc. will always present one picture to the public at-large and negotiations are completely separate from that behind closed doors. Why is that a difficult concept to understand?

I don't believe Canelo's team in what they say to the press any more than I do Floyd's team. I put no stock in what Floyd Sr. or Roger say publicly. It means nothing.

Now, a writer with connections to people on the inside of negotiations reporting on something without bias? Yeah, I'll take that all day, every day. So should you.

It is hard for me to imagine you just believe everything that comes out of Canelo's camp. If that really is the case, I'm going to assume you feel the same way about Floyd's camp.

If so, I'll contribute a bunch more quotes. It is hard for me to believe you honestly take that stance, though, so I'm not going to waste my time.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 05-14-2013 at 02:19 AM.
RedBlackAttack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:21 AM   #1587
lefthook00
College star
 
lefthook00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,991
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

The bottom line is that Floyd's camp wants the fight to be @ 147 and Canelo's camp declined. That's cheap as hell. Floyd's a champ @ 154.
lefthook00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:23 AM   #1588
magic chiongson
I post-up midgets
 
magic chiongson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South
Posts: 4,068
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

it's pointless.. RBA will defend floyd at all cost


anyway floyd is a 154lb champion and should be able to convincingly beat canelo @ 154, while canelo has previosly fought at a catchweight against mathew hatton.
magic chiongson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:29 AM   #1589
RedBlackAttack
The Paterfamilias
 
RedBlackAttack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The "Q"
Posts: 28,022
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCREWstonRockets
How much more ready does he need to be? This is a win win situation for Canelo, any way you slice it. If he wins, he beats the top guy. If he loses, he loses to the top guy.
I would say he has quite a bit to lose. Canelo is on the verge of breaking through into the American mainstream. He can be that kind of action fighter that people love. He is objectively handsome, has charisma, punches pretty hard (which people love), is beloved by his fellow countrymen, seems well spoken, etc.

He is really a perfect foil for Mayweather's evil persona, maybe even moreso than Pacquiao was, assuming he can continue to improve his English.

The risk in fighting Mayweather this soon is taking all that potential for true popular culture stardom in the US (and everything that comes along with it) and throwing your chips in very early in a fighter's career.

Depending on how the fight goes, that potential could be completely wiped away. He could also KO Mayweather and become an immediate hero, but to act like there is no risk for Canelo... That's crazy.

Like it or not, fighters are viewed completely differently -- especially in this country -- when they are soundly beaten, regardless of age/experience. Canelo is one of the biggest sports stars in Mexico, but the average American has no clue who he is (probably would confuse him with Blake Griffin).

That could change from now and a few fights from now. He could also become just one of the Ws on Mayweather's record, to the general sports fan in this country.

You're right... He has nothing to lose if he is content with his current level of stardom. I see opportunity for more, though, if his career is managed correctly.
RedBlackAttack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:33 AM   #1590
RedBlackAttack
The Paterfamilias
 
RedBlackAttack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The "Q"
Posts: 28,022
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by magic chiongson
it's pointless.. RBA will defend floyd at all cost
Not true. If Floyd truly stops this fight from happening and that is legitimately reported, I will call him out for it.

Fact is, there is a large group of people who believe Floyd is scared of his own shadow and it's silly. Their first reaction is always, "he's scared." This is another case of that, just a couple days into talks starting and before any actual news has been reported about the negotiations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magic chiongson
anyway floyd is a 154lb champion and should be able to convincingly beat canelo @ 154, while canelo has previosly fought at a catchweight against mathew hatton.

I do think Floyd would beat him at 154 and I'm not a fan of catchweights. If I had my druthers, the fight would either take place at 147 or 154. Unfortunately, we now live in an age where catchweights are common (Pacquiao was the catchweight king).

I just think it's funny, once again, that the narrative is already being spun before anyone has any clue what is happening in negotiations.

I mean, do you think Rafael is lying? Do you buy everything that comes out of a trainer's mouth regarding his own fighter?

It's silly.
RedBlackAttack is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:14 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy