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Old 05-14-2013, 02:35 AM   #1591
RedBlackAttack
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook00
The bottom line is that Floyd's camp wants the fight to be @ 147 and Canelo's camp declined. That's cheap as hell. Floyd's a champ @ 154.
Has that been legitimately reported and verified? If so, provide the link.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:38 AM   #1592
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
I never said that.

true. you've said that they are around the same level of "riskiness" in respect to beating Floyd....






I say Floyd should fight him at 154 or don't fight him at all.
I understand that Canelo would have crazy advantages (youth, weight, power,..) but that's what greatness is all about.
I'd be very excited and praise Floyd to the fullest!
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:44 AM   #1593
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by DonD13
I say Floyd should fight him at 154 or don't fight him at all.
I understand that Canelo would have crazy advantages (youth, weight, power,..) but that's what greatness is all about.
I'd be very excited and praise Floyd to the fullest!

I think it would be incredibly ballsy for him to go all the way up to 154 and take the fight, but I also don't think it is something that people should just expect to happen. Floyd has never come into any fight close to the 154-pound limit. Yes, he has fought there a couple times, but there is a big difference between an older DLH and Cotto (who isn't nearly as big as Canelo) and fighting Alvarez there... A guy who is, quite honestly, probably too big to still be fighting at 154 in the first place and will be a full-fledged middleweight before long.

Hell, I could see Canelo being in line to fight Andre Ward down the road.

If Canelo truly is only interested in the fight at 154, I'd be disappointed if the fight couldn't be made... But I'd also understand why Floyd wouldn't want to do it. He's out-sized a lot of times at welter and he could probably easily move down to 140 if he had to. No one could objectively say Floyd is a 154-pounder. He's just not.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 05-14-2013 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:58 AM   #1594
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
I think it would be incredibly ballsy for him to go all the way up to 154 and take the fight, but I also don't think it is something that people should just expect to happen. Floyd has never come into any fight close to the 154-pound limit. Yes, he has fought there a couple times, but there is a big difference between an older DLH and Cotto (who isn't nearly as big as Canelo) and fighting Alvarez there... A guy who is, quite honestly, probably too big to still be fighting at 154 in the first place and will be a full-fledged middleweight before long.

Hell, I could see Canelo being in line to fight Andre Ward down the road.

If Canelo truly is only interested in the fight at 154, I'd be disappointed if the fight couldn't be made... But I'd also understand why Floyd wouldn't want to do it. He's out-sized a lot of times at welter and he could probably easily move down to 140 if he had to. No one could objectively say Floyd is a 154-pounder. He's just not.

I agree.

if he fights at 147 this year, I'd like to see him with Bradley.

(after, if Pacman looks good in his next fight, this one still would sell like crazy. Molina is another fight I would like. At 154 Canelo, Lara, Trout are all fights I'd be interested in.)
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:44 AM   #1595
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
According to... his trainer?

Quote:
I wonder what Floyd Mayweather Sr. would say Floyd is willing to do and who he would fight. I wonder if anyone would take anything he said seriously? You are believing what you want to believe and disregarding the rest.

LMAO! Man, I am posting FACTS here, most of your posts are opinions. You are the one whose disregarding the fact that Canelo was willing to move down to 150 2 yrs ago, you're disregarding the fact that Canelo's trainer confirmed that they are willing to move down to 150 today. Why would a trainer lie about moving down in weight? There's no point.

Quote:
Trainers have a vested interest in having you believe a specific narrative. They're probably the most biased source you can talk to. Things trainers say should always be taken with an enormous grain of salt.

I'm sure if it were Floyd Sr. making the comments, you'd buy into them 100-percent, right?

I'd take a trainers word any day of the week over the media. Media are not the ones who negotiate, the fighter's team is.

Quote:
It doesn't really matter what Canelo wants. He is fighting under GBP and he has a team behind him who makes fights happen or not happen. He is still just 22. They would have very solid reasons for not wanting to make the fight happen.

Unlike the people who despise Floyd, I'm not saying Canelo is personally frightened of fighting Mayweather. That is silly, just like it's silly when people say it on the other side of the equation.

They have million$ of reasons for wanting to make the fight happen.

Quote:
There are a lot of variables that go into making a fight.

Furthermore, you are the pot calling the kettle black. Rafael clearly stated in his article that Canelo doesn't want to fight below 154. You flatly refuse to believe it and, instead, are going all-in on whatever Alvarez's trainer has to say.

Again, when was the last time he heard from team Canelo that they are not willing to fight below 154? He didn't even quote Canelo, no source whatsoever.

Quote:
Funny, because I could easily find a conflicting quote from Mayweather's trainer.

http://www.boxingscene.com/floyd-may...-canelo--65400

So, since you buy into whatever a trainer says, the weight doesn't matter to Floyd, right? Or, is it case sensitive? Do you only believe Canelo's trainers now?

There is a clear conflict in what they're saying.

Did Mayweather Sr. said something about actual negotiations in that article? Because I can't find any. You're a strong believer of opinions I see.

Quote:
As for the article you posted, it has no bearing on current negotiations. When is the last time Mayweather or any other fighter who was considered the biggest PPV draw in the sport (Pacquiao, for instance) had a guaranteed clause for more than the most immediate fight on the table?

I posted that article to show you the reason why team Canelo didn't think Floyd would fight him and not because of what you think and what you feel the reason is.

Quote:
Why would he say it publicly? Legitimate negotiations aren't done through quotes in the press, which is why I'm questioning Alvarez's trainer going to the press this soon in talks.

Fighters, trainers, promoters, etc. will always present one picture to the public at-large and negotiations are completely separate from that behind closed doors. Why is that a difficult concept to understand?

Reporters asks questions all the time. Why wouldn't he say it if it's the truth?

Quote:
I don't believe Canelo's team in what they say to the press any more than I do Floyd's team. I put no stock in what Floyd Sr. or Roger say publicly. It means nothing.

Now, a writer with connections to people on the inside of negotiations reporting on something without bias? Yeah, I'll take that all day, every day. So should you.

Can you guess who their connections are? Yeah, that's right.. people who are actually part of the negotiations you know, like trainers.

The guy who knows >>> the guy who has a connection to the guy who knows.

Quote:
It is hard for me to imagine you just believe everything that comes out of Canelo's camp. If that really is the case, I'm going to assume you feel the same way about Floyd's camp.

Man, believe me, it's even harder for me to imagine that you don't believe what Canelo's trainer has said.

Quote:
If so, I'll contribute a bunch more quotes. It is hard for me to believe you honestly take that stance, though, so I'm not going to waste my time.

Feel free, I love eating denial for breakfast.
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:48 AM   #1596
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook00
The bottom line is that Floyd's camp wants the fight to be @ 147 and Canelo's camp declined. That's cheap as hell. Floyd's a champ @ 154.

Floyd: "I fought Cotto at 154, his most comfortable weight!"
...
Floyd: "If Sergio Martinez can make 150, we can fight."
...
Floyd: "If Canelo can make 147, we can fight. No catchweight."

You see what he did there?
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:52 AM   #1597
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by magic chiongson
it's pointless.. RBA will defend floyd at all cost


anyway floyd is a 154lb champion and should be able to convincingly beat canelo @ 154, while canelo has previosly fought at a catchweight against mathew hatton.

Dude, it's not pointless. I'm having a talk with the resident boxing expert here.
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:56 AM   #1598
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD13
true. you've said that they are around the same level of "riskiness" in respect to beating Floyd....






I say Floyd should fight him at 154 or don't fight him at all.
I understand that Canelo would have crazy advantages (youth, weight, power,..) but that's what greatness is all about.
I'd be very excited and praise Floyd to the fullest!

This is all I want and all that matters, making the fight people actually want to see.
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:16 AM   #1599
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatlezz
Why wouldn't he say it if it's the truth?



Yeah... Why? Of course, that's assuming it's the unabashed truth in the first place, which you prefer to assume (I don't... for stuff coming from EITHER side).

It isn't as though a fighter or a fighter's team or a fighter's trainer would have a reason to project a positive picture of their own guy or anything, right? This is the crux of your argument and it makes no sense.

Meanwhile, let me ask you the same question about a guy with no vested interest in how either guy looks to the public... Why would Rafael say Canelo had no desire to fight below 154 if it wasn't true? Using your own logic, why? What's his reason?

Btw, you can edit posts, you know?
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:54 AM   #1600
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack


Yeah... Why? Of course, that's assuming it's the unabashed truth in the first place, which you prefer to assume (I don't... for stuff coming from EITHER side).

It isn't as though a fighter or a fighter's team or a fighter's trainer would have a reason to project a positive picture of their own guy or anything, right? This is the crux of your argument and it makes no sense.

There is no point in lying about weight negotiations. Zero. Mayweather could easily dismiss that article anyway if it's false.

Quote:
Meanwhile, let me ask you the same question about a guy with no vested interest in how either guy looks to the public... Why would Rafael say Canelo had no desire to fight below 154 if it wasn't true? Using your own logic, why? What's his reason?

Btw, you can edit posts, you know?

Maybe if you would stop ignoring all the legitimate points that I've posted you would realize that I already had my say about this. Dig a little deeper Mr. Boxing Expert.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:20 PM   #1601
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
I think it would be incredibly ballsy for him to go all the way up to 154 and take the fight, but I also don't think it is something that people should just expect to happen. Floyd has never come into any fight close to the 154-pound limit. Yes, he has fought there a couple times, but there is a big difference between an older DLH and Cotto (who isn't nearly as big as Canelo) and fighting Alvarez there... A guy who is, quite honestly, probably too big to still be fighting at 154 in the first place and will be a full-fledged middleweight before long.

Hell, I could see Canelo being in line to fight Andre Ward down the road.

If Canelo truly is only interested in the fight at 154, I'd be disappointed if the fight couldn't be made... But I'd also understand why Floyd wouldn't want to do it. He's out-sized a lot of times at welter and he could probably easily move down to 140 if he had to. No one could objectively say Floyd is a 154-pounder. He's just not.

Only problem I have with this is that you've been saying Canelo would pretty much be easy work for Floyd, hes not ready and its not a risky fight. So with a Canelo fight that could be fairly easy and doesn't bring much risk, what's wrong with a fight at 154?
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:59 PM   #1602
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

in the end if Canelo wants Mayweather why should Mayweather have to go up? I mean I can see both sides. Canelo is natural 154er or 160er and why should he go down. But if he wants to make a lot of money sometimes rewards outweighs risk
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:37 PM   #1603
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by SCREWstonRockets
Only problem I have with this is that you've been saying Canelo would pretty much be easy work for Floyd, hes not ready and its not a risky fight. So with a Canelo fight that could be fairly easy and doesn't bring much risk, what's wrong with a fight at 154?
That's my personal opinion, but I could understand why a guy who has just grown into welterweight wouldn't want to step in against a guy weighing 170 pounds the night of the fight. There does come a point where mere size can overcome skill.

JCC Jr. is nowhere near the boxer of Sergio Martinez and, even at his advanced age, he really should have shut Chavez completely out... And he did for 10 rounds. Eventually, though, the massive size difference took its toll.

And this differential would have the potential to be even wider than that. Don't get it twisted... I want to see the fight happen, even if it is at 154. I do think Floyd would win regardless and that would be one hell of a challenge, just in the size and age differences alone (not to mention Canelo being a good fighter).

I'm not saying I don't want the fight to happen... Just that it shouldn't be expected if the only option is 154. I'm pretty sure Mayweather's camp couldn't care less what my personal opinion on the fight is (nor should they).
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:53 PM   #1604
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:54 AM   #1605
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