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Old 07-09-2013, 06:40 PM   #2116
Tarik One
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgine
Yeah I would agree that Bowe made a big mistake dodging Lewis.
And it's also the reason why Riddick threw his championship belt (WBC I think) in the trashcan. Can't find the footage though
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:18 PM   #2117
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by lefthook00
Yeah I think Ike & Tua set a heavyweight punch record for that fight. Tua had some extreme endurance for a guy that big, almost suspiciously extreme.

I would have loved to see both Tua and Ike vs. Tyson.

Oops, meant to say that Ike seemed to have suspicious endurance for a guy that big.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:06 AM   #2118
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Tarik One
And it's also the reason why Riddick threw his championship belt (WBC I think) in the trashcan. Can't find the footage though
Well no one can say he didn't try very hard dodging Lewis.

Big big mistake.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:53 AM   #2119
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

I like how Lennox used to call him Riddickulous Bowe.

Or when Lewis thought Holyfield was ducking him he called him Evader Holyfield
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:12 AM   #2120
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

People really think Bowe doged Lennox?? WBC, promoters and politics had alot too with that and other fights not taking place.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:30 AM   #2121
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwade305
People really think Bowe doged Lennox?? WBC, promoters and politics had alot too with that and other fights not taking place.
I think so. I also believe Bowe would beat Lennox at the time.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:29 AM   #2122
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash88
LOL. He would occasionally throw a series of jabs to keep Tua at bay and then the two would start trading blows. Hardly indicative of someone being able to "box from the outside."

Besides, your argument of Ibeabuchi being able to box stemmed from the Byrd fight, which doesn't really make much sense either.
His jab was frequently snapping Tua's head back in that fight. Anyone acting as though that jab didn't make a major difference in that fight either hasn't seen it or hasn't seen it lately. It wasn't just a throwaway jab like you normally see in boxing with brawlers. It was a tight, solid jab that was making an impact. He just wasn't completely committed to it the way he should have been. Not only was the jab landing consistently all night, but he was working off that jab quite a bit, often turning it over for a really nice left hook from the outside.

I'm just going to randomly click through the fight and point out a couple of exhibits. It started literally right from the opening bell.

Check out these fluid combinations from the outside off of the jab ---> 7:55 - 8:45

Exhibit Two (14:48 - 15:51)

Exhibit Three (1:05 - 1:18)

Exhibit Four (3:57 - 4:15)


Those are just a few examples from scrolling through the first handful of rounds. Not sure how you can watch that and deduce that Ibeabuchi was not a skilled boxer from the outside.

As for Byrd, he was damn hard to hit cleanly from the outside. His MO was bouncing around from distance, making guys miss and occasionally scoring points with relatively light counter shots. He was great at making big guys look sloppy, which Ike did at times.

In that fight, he did try to use his jab quite a bit, but Byrd avoided it well. He instead went to more right leads from outside with success.

14:18

Ike did most of his biggest damage from the inside, but that was still being set up by good movement on the outside. He wasn't just rushing in. He also showed excellent boxing technique in his combinations and accuracy on the inside against a guy who was very hard to hit.

18:14 to the end of the round

Again, setting the right hand up behind the jab...

21:04


With most guys, they leave you a career where you definitively say what his strengths and weaknesses were. The whole thing with Ibeabuchi is trying to mete out moments in really the two fights that meant anything before his career ended and one of those only went five rounds. It's tricky and you can fall into a mythological "what could have been" scenario. However, I don't think there's any denying the guy's boxing skill, both inside and out.

The biggest issues I see when I re-watch his fights is a lack of discipline to those traits which would have made him much more difficult to beat. Despite his ability on the outside, he seemed to want to fight on the inside.

One thing I know for sure... I liked watching him fight and I tend to lean more towards boxers than brawlers. He liked working behind the jab, threw clean/crisp combinations, worked from different angles/levels to keep opponents off balance, kept his right hand at his chin for punches coming back and had a wide array of effective punches in his arsenal. I think he was a lot more versatile than you're giving him credit for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook00
Oops, meant to say that Ike seemed to have suspicious endurance for a guy that big.

Yeah. lol

One of the amazing things is it was said prior to the Byrd fight that Ibeabuchi basically refused to spar in preparation. He didn't like sparring, apparently. He was either on something or a complete freak of nature... maybe both.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 07-10-2013 at 02:55 AM.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:53 AM   #2123
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgine
I think so. I also believe Bowe would beat Lennox at the time.
Depends on when you're talking about. Bowe's peak has to be one of the shortest in boxing history. From 1990-94, it would have been a very interesting fight. I would still have favored Lewis, but Bowe was damn good and Lewis' chin was always the wildcard. Riddick hit hard too.

Funny, everyone thought Holyfield was the one that should have retired after the last Bowe fight, but he went on to some pretty big wins later on. Turned out Bowe was the one worse for wear.

Man... what a fun time in the HW division though. These guys today? Blah.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:27 AM   #2124
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Depends on when you're talking about. Bowe's peak has to be one of the shortest in boxing history. From 1990-94, it would have been a very interesting fight. I would still have favored Lewis, but Bowe was damn good and Lewis' chin was always the wildcard. Riddick hit hard too.

Funny, everyone thought Holyfield was the one that should have retired after the last Bowe fight, but he went on to some pretty big wins later on. Turned out Bowe was the one worse for wear.

Man... what a fun time in the HW division though. These guys today? Blah.
Of course I'm talking about the time when Bowe refused to face Lewis.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:52 AM   #2125
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Those are just a few examples from scrolling through the first handful of rounds. Not sure how you can watch that and deduce that Ibeabuchi was not a skilled boxer from the outside.
I've seen the fight. And you didn't really need to go through the fight and pick out parts where Ike was using his jab well -- you're just reaffirming my point. He had moments in the fight where he was keeping Tua at bay -- that doesn't mean he's a skilled outside boxer. Especially since it's David Tua who he's outboxing.

You're cherrypicking a few moments from one fight and then claiming that it's evidence that a fighter is able to box effectively from the outside. I personally disagree with that assessment.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:54 AM   #2126
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgine
Of course I'm talking about the time when Bowe refused to face Lewis.
So that was, what? '94?

There are differing account on exactly how things transpired. Here's a pretty interesting read on the topic... Long though.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=296041
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:42 AM   #2127
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

On the Lennox Lewis all time ranking thing and where he stands against other greats, I think he would be favored going into most if not all fights. His combination of size fluidity power and skill is pretty much unmatched.

That being said he would have been in danger of being caught by anyone which is why he has losses to a guy like rock.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:52 AM   #2128
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Talking Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
On the Lennox Lewis all time ranking thing and where he stands against other greats, I think he would be favored going into most if not all fights. His combination of size fluidity power and skill is pretty much unmatched.

That being said he would have been in danger of being caught by anyone which is why he has losses to a guy like rock.
Put him in the 70s, Lennox would pull off an incredible string of wins against the likes of Frazier, Norton, Ernie Shavers, Larry Holmes, only to get knocked out in the 3rd round by.........Chuck fu***n Wepner.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:57 AM   #2129
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Golota was an OK fighter who happened to catch the right guy at the right time, but still couldn't win because he was so stupid/insane.


How can you say that? Golota was an extremely athletic and skilled heavyweight. His psych ruined just about all of that. He was far from OK though...dude fought mike tyson, riddick bowe, lennox lewis, etc. He'd wipe the floor with any OK boxer

Last edited by kNicKz : 07-10-2013 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:59 AM   #2130
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack

Man... what a fun time in the HW division though. These guys today? Blah.
Do you think the Lewis/Bowe SUPER heavyweights was the beginning(long term) of the end in the Heavyweight division as we know though?

The past few dominant heavyweight champs are these skilled but very huge almost methodical giants that the casual fan find ,well uninspiring.


Not saying that these Supers are not indestructible (Lewis & Klitscho brothers have proven they are beatable) but the supremely active /fit/classic 205/215 lb Heavy seem to be at a disadvantage.

1)With these Super Heavy prospects like Fury, Wider,etc....is it even possible to imagine champs the size of Joe Louis, Mike Tyson,etc...dominating again?Or is just a coincidence that the last 3 dominate fighters were SUPER heavies & I am making too much of fighters huge sizes?


2)Did doing away with the championship rds in 80's take away a little advantage as far as stamina/endurance that smaller fighters can take into later rounds? Fighters don't have to worry about 15 rounds anymore & old school endurance is lacking?

Or
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