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Old 02-19-2014, 02:29 AM   #3076
DonDadda59
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Getting a fight with DLH was like hitting the lottery for both Mayweather and Pacquiao. It sent both guys into the sports stratosphere and anyone with half a brain could see the benefit of those fights being made. I purposely said AFTER the DLH/Cotto fights, because that's when Pacquiao ascended to the point where he could headline million-buy PPV events. It took those fights to do it.

As for DuBoef being involved, that's one of Arum's many publicity stunts during those negotiations in an attempt to control the narrative. Like I said, Arum was never going to allow that fight to happen because Pacquiao was his golden goose and he wanted 100-percent of the profits from his fights kept in-house. That's what I said at the time and nothing that has happened in the interim has proven otherwise.

Pacquiao was a money machine for Arum and making a fight with Mayweather not only risked taking a big bite out of Pacquiao's appeal if Floyd beat him, but more importantly, he wasn't going to get all of the promotional profits. Yeah, it would have been a huge payday for him regardless of what happened, but was splitting that purse in half going to make him more than netting all of the proceeds by having him fight a long line of Top Rank guys?

Yeah, that's nice and all but the facts show that Arum matched Pacquiao against the owner of Golden Boy in late 2008 (which was a risk people forget, Manny had never fought past 135 and was a 2-1 betting underdog). Then in early 2009 he fought another GBP fighter. So you claiming that Arum wouldn't leave the stable a few months later when the fight was being discussed is just ridiculous.

Certain people were led to believe that Olympic Style testing was the only reason Floyd and his people wanted nothing to do with the fight ( ). Now we're being told it can't possibly happen with Arum being involved? So doesn't that mean that the whole testing nonsense was just a big ruse? Or a duck in common parlance?

Tell me what I'm missing here...

Quote:
As for Mayweather's options... they still exist precisely because he's so good at selling fights. He can get the public's interest in a guy that may, on the outset, seem like someone the public would have no interest in. A 24/7 series with Mayweather/Malignaggi would make a fight sell. Danny Garcia and his crazy dad would be set up for Mayweather to sell and he's a viable opponent with GBP. If Maidana beats Broner again, Mayweather could make it sell.

You're looking at it from strictly a boxing matchup standpoint, but not factoring in Mayweather's ability to sell a fight and get people interested, whether they want him to be viciously KOed (as you do) or if they like him.

That's what Pacquiao doesn't have. His PPV status is based on him brutalizing opponents with speed and power and looking unbeatable. He isn't going to sell a fight in the press. That's why seeing him splayed on the canvas was such a devastating blow to his "brand."

He's going to need to take tougher fights, too, and I'd say his options are even less appealing than Mayweather's.

No one is going to shell out money unless they are convinced he has a chance of losing. No one in the public sees either washed up Khan or Maidana as that. It will be the same as the Guerrero fight, especially now that there's a hold up/limited promotion.

Mayweather-Malignaggi would be the biggest joke ever. The 24/7s would be good entertainment but no one in their right mind would pay to watch that pillow fight

Manny at least has the Bradley rematch, and if he wins (again) then Marquez 5 will probably be next. Both guys are more highly regarded in the rankings and well known in the public than anyone Floyd has waiting in the wings.

If he stepped out of his comfort zone and took on a real challenge ala Cotto and accepted GGG's challenge then that would be different.
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:02 AM   #3077
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
Apparently the hold up with Floyd announcing his next opponent is due to a failed double PPV event that didn't get off the ground. Showtime was gonna do a double with Floyd/Khan headlining at the MGM Grand and Broner/Maidana II headlining at the Barclays Center all on the same night.

What's the hold up? Is it because they are going with Floyd/Maidana instead? If so, I wonder if they could just do the same thing but make it Floyd/Maidana and Khan/Broner.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:07 PM   #3078
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
What?

There is a virtual cold war between promotional companies in boxing right now. Arum basically only allows his marquee fighters to go against other Top Rank options. This isn't a secret or speculation. It's fact. Look at Pacquiao's list of opponents since he really hit the big-time in terms of popularity (which was after the DLH/Cotto fights).

They've all been other Top Rank fighters. Hell, he's even forced guys who weren't with Top Rank before the Pac negotiations started to switch over to Arum before the fight would even be discussed.


I think you're looking at the situation as if promoters are a minor player who just takes care of the behind the scenes stuff. Truth is, promoters control the sport. They always have to a certain degree, but it is really bad at the moment, with fighters/networks choosing sides and not crossing those lines. There are hundreds of millions of dollars on the line, here. This is huge business with some major players.

Arum was never going to allow a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight to happen. Maybe there were people on Mayweather's side who felt the same way and also didn't want it to come off... But there's no doubt in my mind Arum was always going to find a way out of making that happen, unless Mayweather jumped back over to Top Rank which had no chance of happening since Floyd/Bob hate each other and Floyd has his own promotional company. I've been saying it since the first negotiations for this things went to sh!t and only in the last couple years have others come around to that obvious conclusion.

Denying the politics of boxing as a major obstacle to making ALL big fights -- let alone the biggest in the history of the sport -- is like denying water is wet. And, when it comes to Top Rank/Golden Boy/Mayweather Promotions, there has never been more political opposition than right now.

The other thing is, Pacquiao doesn't have any leverage at this point. For the fight to happen, he'd have to really swallow his pride, maybe even take a flat fee for the fight, get Arum out of the way and out from under the Top Rank umbrella. All that time off after being knocked unconscious has taken Pac off of center stage. At this point, if he's going to continue fighting, he needs Mayweather a hell of a lot more than Mayweather needs him.
How many fighters outside of GBP has Floyd fought?
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:12 PM   #3079
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Promotional crap has been preventing fights for a long time.

Don King and Bob Arum worked together once in a blue moon. 1990 for Tyson-Tillman/Foreman-Rodriguez, 1999 for DLH-Trinidad, 2006 for Mayweather-Judah.

That's not to say the fighters don't deserve blame too (I've never believed either Floyd or Manny has really cared that much about facing the other), but promoters have been giving us the middle finger for years due to their greed and ego.

Last edited by Stringer Bell : 02-19-2014 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:22 PM   #3080
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iron Fist
How many fighters outside of GBP has Floyd fought?

Cotto was a free agent, like Mayweather, but he signed with GBP in 2012 to face Mayweather and then Trout. I think he's back to working on a fight-by-fight basis like Mayweather is.

Other than that, I think the last one was Baldomir, in November 2006, the fight before Floyd faced Oscar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PistonsFan#21
its true though isn't it? everyone is calling out Floyd because they know its gonna be their biggest paycheck ever win or lose. You even got guys like Andre Ward and Bernard Hopkins asking Floyd to meet up at 160lbs to make a fight happen. Its just getting ridiculous lol

I don't really pay attention to all this "calling out" crap. Of course people want the big payday. If they don't get it, well at least they get some publicity by saying they want to face the big name.

People make a big thing out of Aaron Pryor calling out Sugar Ray Leonard and crashing his press conference.

Guess what happened when Ray offered Pryor a career high payday? Pryor said "more money!"

Last edited by Stringer Bell : 02-19-2014 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:57 PM   #3081
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Certain people were led to believe that Olympic Style testing was the only reason Floyd and his people wanted nothing to do with the fight ( ). Now we're being told it can't possibly happen with Arum being involved? So doesn't that mean that the whole testing nonsense was just a big ruse? Or a duck in common parlance?

Tell me what I'm missing here...
What you're missing is this (imo)... Olympic style drug testing was not the issue. It was a convenient way for Arum to put the kabash on the negotiations. It was always going to be something with Arum involved. He wasn't going to let the fight happen.

Floyd's team tossed him out a softball to walk away from the negotiations and Arum smacked it out of the park. He immediately went to the press and left the table. If it wasn't the testing, it was going to be something else.

Keep in mind reports were that Floyd had already agreed to glove size and a $10 million fine for any pound over the weight limit. Had Mayweather argued on any of those points, Arum would have walked away. Had he not brought up drug testing, Arum would have found some other reason.

The fight was never going to happen under Arum's watch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
No one is going to shell out money unless they are convinced he has a chance of losing. No one in the public sees either washed up Khan or Maidana as that. It will be the same as the Guerrero fight, especially now that there's a hold up/limited promotion.

Mayweather-Malignaggi would be the biggest joke ever. The 24/7s would be good entertainment but no one in their right mind would pay to watch that pillow fight

Manny at least has the Bradley rematch, and if he wins (again) then Marquez 5 will probably be next. Both guys are more highly regarded in the rankings and well known in the public than anyone Floyd has waiting in the wings.

If he stepped out of his comfort zone and took on a real challenge ala Cotto and accepted GGG's challenge then that would be different.
Khan could be sold as an international event. That would sell just on the US/England angle alone, the same way Hatton drew a ton of attention.

Hatton wasn't exactly a household name when Mayweather fought him. His undefeated record helped, but Khan would be better at selling a fight and Khan has some pretty highlights which, if cut the right way, could make him look like a beast.

I don't like that fight, btw. For me, it is a total mismatch. But, from a money standpoint, I think it would probably do OK.

Garcia needs maybe another impressive primetime fight with heavy publicity over a name fighter and he would sell as a potential threat to Mayweather, regardless of whether he actually is or not.

Bringing up GGG is just silly. Golovkin is a solid middleweight. Why not throw him in against Ward while we're at it? It would be a fascinating fight and I'd love to see it, but it is not feasible because they fight in two entirely different weight classes. Floyd was really stretching it by fighting two former welterweights at 154 (Cotto/DLH) and was REALLY pushing it by fighting Canelo at 152.

Even if GGG could dehydrate himself and come down to 154, he's not a junior middleweight... And Floyd's walking around weight is probably under the WW limit.

GGG and Ward need to fight. That's what he should be focused on, not on chasing a welterweight. Also, don't rule out a Bradley-Mayweather fight depending on what happens in April.

Bradley had no problem hopping over to Top Rank to make that fight happen. I seriously doubt he'll have a problem hopping out of bed with them when his contract is up. Yes, he had to re-sign with Arum to get the Pacquiao fight, but I doubt that contract is any longer than a year... which could make him a potential opponent for Floyd down the road a bit.

There are always options when you have the drawing power of Mayweather.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 02-19-2014 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 02-19-2014, 05:12 PM   #3082
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iron Fist
How many fighters outside of GBP has Floyd fought?
The difference is that Floyd doesn't fight for GBP. They co-promote most of Floyd's fights because they have a large stable of fighters, but they're not dictating to Mayweather who he fights and when.

Meanwhile, Arum has Pacquiao under contract and, any time you ask Pacquiao or Roach about his next fight, they tell you to talk to Bob Arum. GBP doesn't have the power over Mayweather to put the brakes on a potential fight. Arum does have that power over Pacquiao and Manny seemingly gives it to him willingly.

Back in 2011, Pacquiao's own strength coach and assistant trainer at the time confirmed everything I'm saying, here, and I had suspected it was the case long before this came out:

Quote:
MANILA, Philippines – Manny Pacquiao’s conditioning coach Alex Ariza took a swing at boxing promoter Bob Arum for allegedly preventing the fight between the Filipino boxing icon and archrival Floyd Mayweather Jr. from happening.

Ariza claimed that Arum only wanted Pacquiao to fight Top Rank’s boxers so that Top Rank will get all the profits.

“It’s clear as to why the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight has never happened. It's always about what's best for Bob and his agenda… Whoever Manny fights, he has to fight in-house,” Ariza told Fighthype.com’s Ben Thompson.

Ariza claimed that another reason why Arum is opposing a Mayweather fight because of his hatred towards the unbeaten boxer and his handlers.

Ariza said Arum does not want Mayweather to make a dime out of Pacquiao.

“Arum hates Floyd Mayweather, can't stand him, he doesn't want to see him make a dollar, can't stand Golden Boy, doesn't want to do business with them,” he said.

He said he sent his adviser, Michael Koncz, to talk to Arum about the superfight.

However, Ariza claimed that Koncz is in cahoots with the boxing promoter.

“I know that Michael Koncz says that he's having a meeting with Bob to negotiate the Mayweather fight. They're having a meeting on how to make sure that this fight doesn't happen. That's what their meeting is about,” said Ariza.

Ariza said he and boxing coach Freddie Roach have been actively pursuing the Mayweather fight because it will be good for Pacquiao.

He said putting Pacquiao in another rematch against Juan Manuel Marquez is bad strategy.

“If Manny wants to fight Floyd and if he fights Floyd, and hypothetically loses to Floyd, the Marquez fight is still there,” explained Ariza.

“If Manny fights Marquez and he loses to Marquez, the Floyd fight is gone,” he added.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/11...yweather-fight

...and, low and behold, look what happened. Literally exactly as Ariza predicted.

Like I said, maybe there are people within Mayweather's group that didn't want the fight either, for whatever reason. But, Arum definitely didn't want it. Still doesn't.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 02-19-2014 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:13 PM   #3083
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
As for Mayweather's options... they still exist precisely because he's so good at selling fights. He can get the public's interest in a guy that may, on the outset, seem like someone the public would have no interest in. A 24/7 series with Mayweather/Malignaggi would make a fight sell. Danny Garcia and his crazy dad would be set up for Mayweather to sell and he's a viable opponent with GBP. If Maidana beats Broner again, Mayweather could make it sell.

You're looking at it from strictly a boxing matchup standpoint, but not factoring in Mayweather's ability to sell a fight and get people interested, whether they want him to be viciously KOed (as you do) or if they like him.


I'm not going to get into y'all's Pacman-Mayweather argument for the 500th time that yall have every 6 months but c'mon, you seriously can't be pushing a Mayweather-Malignaggi fight. I'm sure even the biggest Floyd D rider would be against that fight. Are we at the point where the Pre-fight promotional BS is the main selling point to a fight? .

Fact is, both these guys are running out of worthy opponents. Floyd has done enough to where he could just retire at the top. Khan/Maidana/Malignaggi do nothing for him.

I also think its funny that Bob Arum gets burned alive for in-house fights that every promoter does. Even though they're doing Cotto-Martinez and soon Garcia-Gamboa. Oh yeah, let's not forget they did Chavez-Martinez, a fight that people said Arum would never ever do. And more recently, Tapia-Kirkland. But ok, Bob only does in house fights.

Why does Golden boy get a pass? They're just as much in house as anyone. Hell, they went all Showtime only even before HBO gave them the boot. I don't get the hypocrisy between the two. I like the matchups they have put together but just like top rank or anybody else, they've put out some BS fights as well.

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Old 02-20-2014, 01:31 PM   #3084
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by SCREWstonRockets
I'm not going to get into y'all's Pacman-Mayweather argument for the 500th time that yall have every 6 months but c'mon, you seriously can't be pushing a Mayweather-Malignaggi fight. I'm sure even the biggest Floyd D rider would be against that fight. Are we at the point where the Pre-fight promotional BS is the main selling point to a fight? .

Fact is, both these guys are running out of worthy opponents. Floyd has done enough to where he could just retire at the top. Khan/Maidana/Malignaggi do nothing for him.

I also think its funny that Bob Arum gets burned alive for in-house fights that every promoter does. Even though they're doing Cotto-Martinez and soon Garcia-Gamboa. Oh yeah, let's not forget they did Chavez-Martinez, a fight that people said Arum would never ever do. And more recently, Tapia-Kirkland. But ok, Bob only does in house fights.

Why does Golden boy get a pass? They're just as much in house as anyone. Hell, they went all Showtime only even before HBO gave them the boot. I don't get the hypocrisy between the two. I like the matchups they have put together but just like top rank or anybody else, they've put out some BS fights as well.

Buh buh buh... Bob Arum's the devil

As you pointed out- other promoters (Top Rank's #2 money maker Cotto just announced he's fighting Lou Dibella's biggest star Martinez) don't seem to have too much issue matching up their top fighters with one another. Golden Boy on the other hand epitomizes the in house strategy... to the point that the head of Show sports is their former lawyer. They're the worst of the worst. It got so bad that HBO cut ties with them last year:

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id...hip-golden-boy

^That was in-house Bob's fault too I suppose.
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:42 PM   #3085
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

After Floyd retires, Showtime's developing reputation as a boxing network will plummet again. Their young talent won't be enough to keep them afloat. Say what you want about HBO and their biased announcers, but they are the best when it comes to promoting fights. Floyd and Canelo had to go on a multiple city tour just to sell tickets/PPV buys for Christ's sake. They wouldn't have had to go through that with HBO.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:22 PM   #3086
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
I'm sayin... These dudes will believe whatever nonsense comes out of Floyd's mouth. How many years did these suckers believe that the only reason Floyd wouldn't fight was because of 'da test'? But now it turns out he was never going to fight anyway because Bob Arum being Manny's promoter somehow makes it impossible?

Truth is, as I've been saying since goddamn 2009 ... Floyd and his people (especially his father/trainer who has never made it a secret) don't like the matchup. And when Floyd doesn't like a matchup, he won't fight a guy, simple as that. Doesn't matter how much money is on the table or how much the public wants it. Both he and Margarito were with Top Rank when Bob offered him a then record purse for the fight. Floyd turned it down. Tony even confronted him face to face about it.

Still no dice. Was Bob to blame then too?

I agree the Goal Post seems to be moving every time.

First the 2 week Drug Test

2nd the OST Drug Test

3rd is 60-40 I am the PPV king

4th is Leave your promotion

5th We fight under my promotion.

This would be a cycle of never ending excuses.

The funny thing is the reward far outweigh the risks.

I smell fear here.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:47 PM   #3087
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

In-House Bob just officially announced he's matching his second biggest star with Lou DiBella's biggest draw:

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id...leweight-title

Cotto is a G. Huge risk, even with an inactive Maravilla (who has looked terrible his last few fights). Should be electric in the Garden. Gonna try to score some tickets
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:05 PM   #3088
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Dan Rafeal just tweeted he thinks Floyd Mayweather is going to announce his opponent sometime momentarily.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:16 PM   #3089
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

It is Maidana
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:30 PM   #3090
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Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Adrien Broner is pissed. He wanted that rematch to prove he could beat Maidana. When Mayweather kills him, it will mess up Broner even worse. Which in turn, will set up Mayweather-Broner next year (if Broner starts to win his matches.)

Also, lol at Amir Khan. Dude though he had a match since late last year. Has been bragging about fighting Mayweather for some time, only yo have it go to Marcos Maidana (which Khan beat some years back.)
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