Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-14-2011, 05:28 PM   #31
RedBlackAttack
The Paterfamilias
 
RedBlackAttack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The "Q"
Posts: 28,051
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCREWstonRockets
Why is Sergio Martinez not a bigger star? He has all the star qualities, the look, exciting fighting style, KO power. It's a shame he has yet to have one PPV fight. And were talking about a Top 5 fighter in the world.

These promoters need to get off their asses and stop letting HBO promote their fighters. Sergio should be fighting more than once or twice per year. No reason why he shouldn't have a bigger name and bigger following. Bob Arum gets a lot of negativity but he and even GBP would know how to promote Sergio and make him a star.

Its not even just Sergio. But guys like Paul Williams and Berto, both Americans with fan freindly styles, who get HBO fights all the time but still relatively unknown to everyone besides diehards. To top it off, these promoters come out of no where to cash out and expect Top Rank or GBP to give their fighters, their biggest paydays ever. If the promoters would actually do their job and build up their fighter's name, they wouldn't have problems getting big money fights with top dogs like TR and GBP.
I made a similar point about Andre Ward about a month ago...

He has all of the tangible things that general sports fans usually look for in their 'golden boy' fighters -- aside from style -- and yet he is almost completely unknown outside of hardcore boxing circles...

Gold Medalist - check
World Champion - check
Undefeated - check
American - check
Likeable - check

...throw in the fact that he has beaten (dominated) top tier talent recently and it is mind-boggling that he isn't more well known. Usually, the Gold Medal alone will make a fighter who turns professional one of the stars of the sport. He hasn't just gone pro, he has dominated some of the best in the world... And no one seems to care.

I realize that he doesn't have the tailor-made style for a huge draw, but there have been plenty of defensive-minded Olympic champions that became huge names.

I'm pretty much at a total loss as to the lack of promotion that Ward gets. Sergio Martinez is a certified star in comparison to Ward. The question is, do we blame Dan Goossen or is it just that the public hasn't embraced him for whatever reason? I feel like his accomplishments should be out there a little more than they currently are.
RedBlackAttack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2011, 05:47 PM   #32
DonD13
glew up ☆
 
DonD13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ☂
Posts: 15,734
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
I made a similar point about Andre Ward about a month ago...

He has all of the tangible things that general sports fans usually look for in their 'golden boy' fighters -- aside from style -- and yet he is almost completely unknown outside of hardcore boxing circles...

Gold Medalist - check
World Champion - check
Undefeated - check
American - check
Likeable - check

...throw in the fact that he has beaten (dominated) top tier talent recently and it is mind-boggling that he isn't more well known. Usually, the Gold Medal alone will make a fighter who turns professional one of the stars of the sport. He hasn't just gone pro, he has dominated some of the best in the world... And no one seems to care.

I realize that he doesn't have the tailor-made style for a huge draw, but there have been plenty of defensive-minded Olympic champions that became huge names.

I'm pretty much at a total loss as to the lack of promotion that Ward gets. Sergio Martinez is a certified star in comparison to Ward. The question is, do we blame Dan Goossen or is it just that the public hasn't embraced him for whatever reason? I feel like his accomplishments should be out there a little more than they currently are.

I like him a lot but the people don't care too much about amateur careers, his fights are not THAT exciting and as a person he might be too nice, too boring. People like controversial figures.
But I think when he wins the super 6, he might become well known because he is an undefeated american.
It's not the same story because Martinez had 51 fights and is coming to the end of his career while Ward still has time to get that fame and big money.
DonD13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2011, 05:53 PM   #33
RedBlackAttack
The Paterfamilias
 
RedBlackAttack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The "Q"
Posts: 28,051
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD13
I like him a lot but the people don't care too much about amateur careers, his fights are not THAT exciting and as a person he might be too nice, too boring. People like controversial figures.
But I think when he wins the super 6, he might become well known because he is an undefeated american.
It's not the same story because Martinez had 51 fights and is coming to the end of his career while Ward still has time to get that fame and big money.
Well... Martinez wasn't much of a name -- even in hardcore boxing circles -- until he lost that majority decision to Paul Williams, which was just four fights ago for him. He was a really, really late bloomer and he didn't get his professional career started until his mid-20s.

Maybe that is why the general public is late catching on?

Americans may not care about amateur boxing, but they do care greatly about the Olympics. The list of American Gold Medalists is one of the most prestigious in all of sports. For some reason, Ward didn't get that bump.
RedBlackAttack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2011, 06:00 PM   #34
lefthook00
College star
 
lefthook00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,992
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Martinez started late, I don't know why he's not a bigger star. He is also fighting out of Oxnard, CA, there are some good camps there. If he would have beaten Margarito and Cotto, I think he would be more popular now, like how Margarito is.

As for Ward, he is not a KO artist. He is not on HBO. He is not a crazy sh*t talker. He hasn't had a crazy memorable fight. Same reason why Dawson isn't bigger, but replace "not on HBO" with "weaker competition" for Dawson.
lefthook00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2011, 06:11 PM   #35
DonD13
glew up ☆
 
DonD13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ☂
Posts: 15,734
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Well... Martinez wasn't much of a name -- even in hardcore boxing circles -- until he lost that majority decision to Paul Williams, which was just four fights ago for him. He was a really, really late bloomer and he didn't get his professional career started until his mid-20s.

Maybe that is why the general public is late catching on?

Americans may not care about amateur boxing, but they do care greatly about the Olympics. The list of American Gold Medalists is one of the most prestigious in all of sports. For some reason, Ward didn't get that bump.

yeah true. I know him since he was robbed in the Cintron fight.
and yes, the general public is late catching on. But fighters themself can help with that. There are many examples. Look at Haye. People getting excited about his fights even though he fought boring fights on the lowest level possible (like 40 years old Ruiz/Harrison).
Yeah the promotors are not really good but the fighters themself have to create excitement. Even the Klitschkos can promote themself and making good money and people don't consider their style as exciting.

As for the olympics: Ok, didn't know that. But it explains why so many americans thought that Solis had a shot against Vitali lol
DonD13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2011, 05:28 AM   #36
lefthook00
College star
 
lefthook00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,992
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjEl_FgAw5g

Haye Klitschko "FACE OFF" with Max Kellerman!!!!!!!!
lefthook00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2011, 08:32 AM   #37
IcanzIIravor
NBA lottery pick
 
IcanzIIravor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I walk the earth Kung Fu style
Posts: 5,816
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD13
ASCII checkbox questions. Fill it out.

-----------------

Floyd Mayweather vs. Manny Pacquiao 2012, who would win?
[ x] Money
[ ] Manny

Who will win on July 2?
[ ] Wladimir Klitschko (points)
[x ] Wladimir Klitschko (stoppage)
[ ] David Haye (points)
[ ] David Haye (stoppage)

Victor Ortiz vs. Floyd Mayweather
[x ] Mayweather (points)
[ ] Mayweather (stoppage)
[ ] Vicious Vic (points)
[ ] Vicious Vic (stoppage)

Andre Ward vs. Carl Froch, who will win?
[ ] Froch (points)
[ ] Froch (stoppage)
[x ] Ward (points)
[ ] Ward (stoppage)

Amir Kahn vs. Zab Judah
[ ] Kahn (points)
[ ] Kahn (stoppage)
[ ] Zab (points)
[x ] Zab (stoppage)

Saul Alvarez vs. Ryan Rhodes, who will win?
[ ] Alvarez (points)
[x ] Alvarez (stoppage)
[ ] Rhodes (points)
[ ] Rhodes (stoppage)

Vitali Klitschko vs. Tomasz Adamek, who will win?
[ ] Dr. Ironfist (points)
[x ] Dr. Ironfist (stoppage)
[ ] Adamek (points)
[ ] Adamek (stoppage)

Manny Pacquiao vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, who will win?
[x ] Pacman (points)
[ ] Pacman (stoppage)
[ ] Dinamita (points)
[ ] Dinamita (stoppage)

Sergio Martinez vs. TBA, who will win?
[x ] Martinez all the way
[ ] TBA
[ ] lolwut

-----------------

IcanzIIravor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 11:37 AM   #38
Lebron23
Most Valuable Player
 
Lebron23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: LeBronville
Posts: 45,911
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

I am very impressed with the Performance of Alvarez and Bronner in the last weekend. They are finally starting to showcase their boxing skills againts top 10 rank opponents in their respective Divisions.
Lebron23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 01:10 PM   #39
Tarik One
NBA rookie of the year
 
Tarik One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,713
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

I've seen Alvarez maybe 5 or more times now and he is definitely getting better each time he fights.


Shame Rhodes couldn't hang in there, thought he gave it his all, I don't remember him trying to hold on once. Shame he couldn't get more punches off.


You can't forget just how young that kid is, people will go on about his record, but he is moving up levels quickly now and fighting people at least with enough heart to make him work.


I don't want to jump on the band wagon, but this kid is gonna be great.
Tarik One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 02:30 PM   #40
DonD13
glew up ☆
 
DonD13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ☂
Posts: 15,734
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor

Good luck!
Specially with Zab lol
nah, I'm not counting him out but I don't think he can handle Kahn's speed, size, reach, workrate...

Common guys fill out your cards!!

at the end of the year the winner gets a e-high-five or something
DonD13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 01:22 PM   #41
SCREWstonRockets
Houston Texan
 
SCREWstonRockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Clutch City 2K9
Posts: 3,828
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
I made a similar point about Andre Ward about a month ago...

He has all of the tangible things that general sports fans usually look for in their 'golden boy' fighters -- aside from style -- and yet he is almost completely unknown outside of hardcore boxing circles...

Gold Medalist - check
World Champion - check
Undefeated - check
American - check
Likeable - check

...throw in the fact that he has beaten (dominated) top tier talent recently and it is mind-boggling that he isn't more well known. Usually, the Gold Medal alone will make a fighter who turns professional one of the stars of the sport. He hasn't just gone pro, he has dominated some of the best in the world... And no one seems to care.

I realize that he doesn't have the tailor-made style for a huge draw, but there have been plenty of defensive-minded Olympic champions that became huge names.

I'm pretty much at a total loss as to the lack of promotion that Ward gets. Sergio Martinez is a certified star in comparison to Ward. The question is, do we blame Dan Goossen or is it just that the public hasn't embraced him for whatever reason? I feel like his accomplishments should be out there a little more than they currently are.
I disagree to a certain extent about Ward. I don't think he's entertaining enough to be a star. He doesn't have a fan friendly style. It seems as if he just wants to do just enough to win. We haven't seen him take chances. His fights aren't exactly crowd pleasing and his last fight against Abe was a snooze fest. Besides boxing purist, he isn't wowing many out there. He isn't the type of fighter that we will see in many Fight of the Year matches.

To become a star in boxing, I believe you have to bring some sort of entertainment to the ring. Some drama, something compelling in his matches. So far, Ward doesn't bring much of that. Sure, he has great resume, but that can only get you so far. When you lack excitement in the ring, it'll have to come from elsewhere. Unfortunately, his down to earth, soft spoken personality works against him in this area.

At the end of the day, boxing is an entertainment business. If you're not entertaining the masses, then you're ceiling isn't very high. To be fair, I don't think we've seen him in the ring with somebody that can push him to the limits and force him to take chances and do more than just get the W.
SCREWstonRockets is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 01:35 PM   #42
dwight20-20
future footer
 
dwight20-20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,903
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

I'm going to box my friend this summer. I am stronger and 10 inches taller but he might have speed on me. Neither of us have ever boxed before. Advice?
dwight20-20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2011, 08:29 PM   #43
AirTupac
Mitch Kupcake
 
AirTupac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,060
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Felix

Great comeback. Like a champ.
AirTupac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2011, 08:45 PM   #44
IcanzIIravor
NBA lottery pick
 
IcanzIIravor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I walk the earth Kung Fu style
Posts: 5,816
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD13
Good luck!
Specially with Zab lol
nah, I'm not counting him out but I don't think he can handle Kahn's speed, size, reach, workrate...

Common guys fill out your cards!!

at the end of the year the winner gets a e-high-five or something

Ha ha, I don't know why exactly, but I've always been a bit of a fan of Zab. Guy has so much talent it is sad he has been a mental midget when it comes to his super fights.
IcanzIIravor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2011, 09:40 PM   #45
Reef
College star
 
Reef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,960
Default Re: All Purpose Boxing Discussion Thread

Alexander vs. Matthyse tonight. Solid fight. Matthyse is dangerous. If Devon can hang with him, it should put him right back in the mix.
Reef is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:34 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy