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Old 06-13-2011, 07:03 PM   #31
Solid Snake
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Unhappy Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Swoosh
I mean its obvious he can't do what he did physically as early as last year.

But that's what I don't get. 26 ... no major injuries. No major injuries to load sustaining joints or ligaments IE knees, ankle, feet, etc.

So what's really the problem?

It's not even like he has a TON of basketball on his body.

He went home really early last year.

He went home early in 2009.

He went home really early in 2008.

This year he had help with the scoaring load in Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade. So what is really the issue?

You guys are looking at his tape from 2007 (which he was fantastic, I got to witness it live as it happened ... still remember being in the pizza / bar when it was taking place and people were going ape sh1t)

He looked at that moment destined for greatness. Hell he did the next year too when he dropped 45 in a duel with Pierce in game 7.

But this fall from grace is staggering. He simply can't blow by people anymore. Look how he blew past Tayshaun Prince in that youtube clip. As I've said before look at clips of him dominating in last year's playoffs off the dribble. He's lost ALL that explosiveness. And with no excuse for injuries, what's really the problem? Is it a mental block? Or could it be that this kid really was on some kind of steroids?

I mean I remember a game just last season where he went up for an alley oop against the Blazers, and his whole upper body was almost above the rim.


Overweight

/thread.
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:04 PM   #32
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

Wow back when LeBron was the most athletic player in the game
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Swoosh
It's not even like he has a TON of basketball on his body.

Actually, the kind of mileage LeBron has for his age is simply unprecedented. By the end of last season, a 25 year-old LeBron had played 25197 minutes. He also has 4 stints with Team USA. For comparison's sake, Kobe by 25 had 23829 minutes. MJ 11048. LeBron has played more basketball by his age than any player in NBA history. That said, I don't think his current shell of a body has anything to do with mileage, because he looked great as ever last season. You don't lose that all that within a few months. Not unless you got injured or fell out of shape. So....

Quote:
And with no excuse for injuries, what's really the problem? Is it a mental block? Or could it be that this kid really was on some kind of steroids?

LeBron's problem has to be weight. He's noticeably bigger than last season(I'm looking at 10+ pounds) and that has to be it. Which is why somebody has to convince him to lose weight this offseason. His Top 5 days are over otherwise.
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:10 PM   #34
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

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Originally Posted by wpdougie2180
Not trying to make an excuses for Lebron but people said the same thing about Dr. J losing athleticism at 26 too with no major injuries . Look it up

Whaa? Dr. J was 26 in 76-77 and everything I've seen of him from that season shows him doing ridiculous stuff.
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Old 06-13-2011, 08:02 PM   #35
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

Lebron isn't nearly that explosive right now, he needs to drop about 10-15 pounds.
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Old 06-13-2011, 08:35 PM   #36
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

It didn't look like his play in the Mavericks series (especially toward the end) had anything to do with declining skills or mileage or weight, although I do agree that he isn't the player that he once was.

He looked simply overwhelmed. They had an interesting conversation on First-And-10 today about expectations and how James seems to have his most difficult time (at least in recent years) in huge games where he is expected to win.

In that Pistons series posted in the OP, everyone expected the Cavs to lose... I remember A LOT of people on here predicting a sweep. There is a freedom that comes with the lack of expectations. You can play poorly and say, "Hey... No one expected us to win anyways."

It is arguable that the Heat were underdogs against both the Celtics and Bulls in the previous two rounds, given previous history and regular season performances. Against the Mavs, it was the opposite.

The same thing happened last year... The Celtics were supposed to be done and the Cavs were supposed to steamroll them.

When teams that are very good like the 2010 Celtics and 2011 Mavs begin to fight back and show that they are going to keep coming, James seemed to wilt under the pressure of expectation. I remember the look on his face in Game 4 of the Boston series last year... And, I saw it return against the Mavs this year.

I chalked it up to him being overwhelmed by the impending free agency last year and the fact that he may have had one foot out of the door already. Seeing it happen again, here, makes me think that he has a serious mental block in situations such as this.

Sure, it doesn't help that his athleticism has quite clearly declined, but I really don't think that was the main cause of his shocking disappearance.

Oh, btw... He even experienced a little of this in high school. In his junior year, SVSM was ranked No. 1 in the country heading into the state title game. He had a similar disappearance late in that one and they were upset... Nearly the same thing happened his senior year in the state championship, but Drew Joyce Jr. hit a bunch of 3s to avoid another shocker.

Expectations seem to f#ck with his mind on the absolute biggest stage.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 06-13-2011 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:09 PM   #37
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
In that Pistons series posted in the OP, everyone expected the Cavs to lose... I remember A LOT of people on here predicting a sweep.

In '06 yeah definitely. But not in '07. In '06 we took the Pistons to 7 games and we were maybe one rebound away from upsetting them. So it's not like nobody expected them to win or even be competitive a year later ...
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:10 PM   #38
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
I chalked it up to him being overwhelmed by the impending free agency last year and the fact that he may have had one foot out of the door already. Seeing it happen again, here, makes me think that he has a serious mental block in situations such as this.
Well then that is the classic sign of a front runner. A bully. You hit him back in the mouth, and he doesn't know what to do with himself. Seriously ... same psychology.

I mean it happened in his 10 points to close out the Celtics. Wade kept it close all game, thus giving him the confidence and freedom to do whatever.

He played terrible in game 1 v.s. the Bulls. LeBron notoriously doesn't show heart in fighting back when someone gains the upper hand on him.

Game 2 v.s. Bulls, Haslem's play which kept the Heat close gave LeBron the confidence to go out and hit those shots without too much pressure.

Same goes for game 5 when it was Wade's 3 pointer and the foul which sparked the Heat. THEN LeBron started making his shots.

Where is such a talented player's ability to enforce his WILL on an opponent and in a game where they have to fight from behind?

He simply doesn't do it.

He's a heartless front runner. A bully. When the chips are down, he disappears.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:11 PM   #39
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Swoosh
Well then that is the classic sign of a front runner. A bully. You hit him back in the mouth, and he doesn't know what to do with himself. Seriously ... same psychology.

I mean it happened in his 10 points to close out the Celtics. Wade kept it close all game, thus giving him the confidence and freedom to do whatever.

He played terrible in game 1 v.s. the Bulls. LeBron notoriously doesn't show heart in fighting back when someone gains the upper hand on him.

Game 2 v.s. Bulls, Haslem's play which kept the Heat close gave LeBron the confidence to go out and hit those shots without too much pressure.

Same goes for game 5 when it was Wade's 3 pointer and the foul which sparked the Heat. THEN LeBron started making his shots.

Where is such a talented player's ability to enforce his WILL on an opponent and in a game where they have to fight from behind?

He simply doesn't do it.

He's a heartless front runner. A bully. When the chips are down, he disappears.
this this this
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:15 PM   #40
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

It was weird how he wasn't able to penetrate like he used to. In the past, even when he didn't have a step on the defender, he still kept going and bulldozed his way to the rim. Now he gives up and turns away when the help defender comes while he's slashing, or he tries to use finesse instead of strength to shake the help defender, and he ends up losing the ball/getting stripped/or passing the ball out.

Anyways, if he loses a little weight he'll be fine. Reincarnate his body like how Kobe did a few years back when he dieted back down close to 200lbs. Hopefully LeBron will do this preemptively, as opposed to doing it after he actually gets injured.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:15 PM   #41
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolBBall
I'm actually starting to think it might be the latter. Maybe he's weaned himself off them this year after speculation started regarding his steroid use? Not sure how much steroids would affect explosive movement (e.g., acceleration and leaping), though.
It's absolutely possible. Rashard Lewis getting caught in the off season, Derrick Rose's comments on PEDs in the NBA. Maybe the league is trying to negotiate extensive testing for HGH and PEDs into the new bargaining agreement, and he's gearing up for it by weaning himself off the juice.

But seriously, I now have hard time believing weight played such an ample role in his MASSIVE decline in athleticism in just a few calander months. He's not THAT much bigger than he was last season. This wasn't a steady decline, this was almost night and day difference. Kid doesn't finish at the rim even close to how he used to ... and as we said he is only 26.

But steroids also impact recovering from injuries, etc. I've never seen LeBron ice himself as much as he has this year. I even saw a video on it. LeBron was icing his knees, and ankles right after practice. Wade starts joking around about his age, and how much older he actually is, etc. And LeBron is 3 - 4 years younger than Wade.

It just doesn't make sense.

Last edited by Samurai Swoosh : 06-13-2011 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:15 PM   #42
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

I miss that LeBron. The fame, the increasing pressure to win a title, added weight, and perhaps some wear/tear have taken that guy away.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:18 PM   #43
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU

This is poetry. Compare this to the last week and tell me he hasn't psyched himself out.

this must be joke

are you kidding me

step back for second and notice the shots he was hitting

every phucking shot was going in


there 50 vidoes like that where guy just has everything going in

hell look at vince carter drop 50 against sixers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_ma-03aeIE


or iverson vs lakers in finals etc
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:26 PM   #44
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolBBall
I'm actually starting to think it might be the latter. Maybe he's weaned himself off them this year after speculation started regarding his steroid use? Not sure how much steroids would affect explosive movement (e.g., acceleration and leaping), though.
its a shame we never got to see mj piss in a cup and its results, cuz that dude had as much athleticism as lebron has... ok he was a lot leaner, maybe he was just a freak
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:37 PM   #45
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Default Re: Watch this and tell me Lebron played as hard as he could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
It didn't look like his play in the Mavericks series (especially toward the end) had anything to do with declining skills or mileage or weight

I'd say his PASSIVENESS had nothing to do with his body, but I do believe we would've seen a significantly more productive player had this been Cleveland-LeBron. Just the ability to break guys down 1-on-1 and get in the paint is HUGE. You make a few layups & free throws and your entire thought process changes. That's something he just didn't have this season.

Quote:
It is arguable that the Heat were underdogs against both the Celtics and Bulls in the previous two rounds, given previous history and regular season performances.

Except majority picked Miami to win both series'.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011...s/celtics-heat
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011...ams/heat-bulls

They were heavy favorites against Chicago in particular. Almost no one with the exception of a few hardcore Miami-haters in the media picked Chicago to win the ECF. So LeBron had a ton of pressure going into this series. Miami even lost Game 1, so there was plenty of adversity too, yet LeBron still ended up playing his best series of the playoffs, and was at his most productive in the clutch. All 4 of Miami's victories in this series featured LeBron taking the game over late. Where's the player who supposedly shrinks under the weight of expectations?

So I can't buy that talk at all. For one, it's not like Miami didn't have RIDICULOUS expectations all damn season. They were the most scrutinized team in NBA history, and LeBron the most scrutinized individual player in NBA history. Didn't stop him from finishing #1 in PER. Didn't stop Miami from finishing with the 3rd best record in the league. They dealt with all 3 of their Easter Conference opponents in 5 games while being FAVORED in ALL of them. LeBron came up big in the clutch time and again too, so what suddenly changed in the NBA Finals? It's not like Miami suddenly became favorites in the Finals after being the under-dog all season, because they were favored to win the prior 3 series' too. So to pretend LeBron becomes ODD when he's favored to win just doesn't have any history backing it. These are the following series' in LeBron's career where he was favored to win:

2007 vs. Wizards(4-0) & Nets(4-2)
2008 vs. Wizards(4-2)
2009 vs. Pistons(4-0), Hawks(4-0) & Magic(2-4)
2010 vs. Bulls(4-1) & Celtics(2-4, was perfectly normal besides Game 5)
2011 vs. 76ers(4-1), Celtics(4-1), Bull(4-1)s & Mavericks(2-4)

In which of the following series' was he passive and just weird overall? Only 1. I know we differ about the Celtics series last year, but I have seen those games multiple times and with the exception of Game 5(where he didn't compete in the first half at all), LeBron was as involved and aggressive as ever in that series. 2011 Finals is the only series of his career where he was just weird. There wasn't a single game where he tried to have a BIG night or be the best player on the court. Just seemed content being one-of-the-guys, and that's simply NOT consistent for a player who's 1) most productive player in regular season since '03 2) most productive player in postseason since '03 3) most productive late-game player since '03. Why the hell would this player suddenly get stage-fright to the point where he even stops TRYING to play well? Just doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Sure, it doesn't help that his athleticism has quite clearly declined, but I really don't think that was the main cause of his shocking disappearance.

I agree with this. His old body would've certainly helped, but his passiveness in the Finals had nothing to do with that shortcoming. He simply CHOSE to play the way he did. What's sad is Cleveland-LeBron wasn't even required for Miami to beat Dallas. Just a regular All Star would've done the trick, but only GOD knows what was going through LeBron's mind as he played hot potato with the ball all series.

Last edited by Indian guy : 06-13-2011 at 09:43 PM.
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