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Old 06-14-2011, 12:07 AM   #16
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

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Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
And guess what, to you're last point? Tim Duncan? Shell of his former self. Shaq? Retired. There are very few great perimeter offensive big men left in this game and that's why in large part a guy like Dirk has a supreme advantage over any team in the league. The Heat for example didn't have to worry about guarding a big man with as much offensive versatility as Dirk in the first, second, or third round nor would they have to worry about that against 90% of the teams in the league. So a guy like Bargnani is actually a rare breed, no matter whether you hate him or not. Put the right pieces around him, and you might have something special. I specifically remember Bosh/Bargnani together giving a lot of teams problems.

the difference is dirk is automatic from mid range

bargnani's go to move is what? who knows

reminds me of that SAS rant on kwame about having a move to go to when you need a bucket
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:15 AM   #17
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

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Originally Posted by Skywalker
the difference is dirk is automatic from mid range

bargnani's go to move is what? who knows

reminds me of that SAS rant on kwame about having a move to go to when you need a bucket
Are you really comparing Bargnani to Kwame Brown?
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Old 06-14-2011, 08:32 AM   #18
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

The body control that Dirk has to shoot off-balance is far beyond Andrea's potential. Bargnani will keep improving but he will never be nearly as good as Dirk.

That said, Dallas had very good teams, but they didn't win a title until they put Tyson Chandler besides Dirk. And Marion as SF helped too.
Stop bringing all those mediocre PFs, put a true defensive center besides Andrea and you'll have a serious basketball team in Toronto.
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Old 06-14-2011, 09:05 AM   #19
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

This isn't a Dirk vs. Bargnani thread. But the point is you put Chandler, Marion (Butler before he got injured), Stevenson and J-Kidd around Bargnani and suddenly people would be singing his praises about how much he improved too, even though as Dirk, he'd still be the same player but with better defensive and rebounding guys around him.
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Old 06-14-2011, 09:27 AM   #20
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

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Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
Are you really comparing Bargnani to Kwame Brown?

no but good comparison both horrendous franchise crippling 1st overall pick busts
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Old 06-14-2011, 09:43 AM   #21
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

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no but good comparison both horrendous franchise crippling 1st overall pick busts
Bargnani is not a bust. Only an idiot who hates him would say that.
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:08 AM   #22
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

So a perimeter, offfensive-oriented Euro big who is one of the top 20 players of all time has broken the mold and won a championship, yet as you admit Bargnani isn't even close to his level. How then does this have any relevance to what the Raptors should do?

It's like saying a slashing wing like Wade won a title so we should definitely build around Derozan, even though the two aren't comparable. Makes...no...sense.
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

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So a perimeter, offfensive-oriented Euro big who is one of the top 20 players of all time has broken the mold and won a championship, yet as you admit Bargnani isn't even close to his level. How then does this have any relevance to what the Raptors should do?

It's like saying a slashing wing like Wade won a title so we should definitely build around Derozan, even though the two aren't comparable. Makes...no...sense.
No, not "as I admit" that's what everyone else is saying, I just haven't said anything about that because I don't want to turn it into another Bargnani vs. Dirk debate. His game isn't on-par with Dirk, I know that much. But it's not as far off as people are making it out to be. Offensively, Dirk is in a world of his own. He's IMO a top 3 offensive player in the league every year. BUT his individual D is bad, as we saw whenever he got matched up with Chris Bosh. And his rebounding is still below average. Point being that Mark Cuban worked on getting the right complement of players to compensate for his weaknesses. Put Dirk on a team where he's starting alongside Calderon, Derozan, Amir Johnson, and Sonny Weems and suddenly people would go from calling him a "once in a generation player" to calling him a great offensive player but a soft, weak choker who couldn't grab a rebound to save his life. It has relevance because Bargnani (as I think has been proven) has an advantage on the offensive end over just about every Center in the league. A lot of them have called him a tough cover. So, if you put a real Center next to him along with a SF who can rebound and play D, we're looking at a completely different team than what we've seen over the past few years.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:41 PM   #24
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

So wait a second. Lemme see if I got this straight.

Some random dude said that he does not think a team can win building around Dirk. He ends up being wrong. So you decide that an entire thread should be created to point out that this guy was wrong about whether a team can win being built around Dirk?

Really? Should we create a new thread any time someone is wrong about something just to point it out?
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

Would Bargnani play better and look better on the Mavericks? Yes.

Is he as good as Dirk? No.

Does it matter? No.

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Old 06-14-2011, 04:52 PM   #26
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

Q is like the GOBB of this forum. The guy that people are scared to call out or disagree with, a guy who thinks he's always right, and can't admit when he's got it wrong. The dude has been saying for YEARS that the formula for a championship is great perimeter players and defensive bigs. I pointed out that Dirk just broke the mold and proved that theory wrong.

So whats the point? I'll let you know if you didn't pick up on it. Bargnani is a unique player, a rare breed. There's almost no Center in the league that can guard him one on one. Even Joakim Noah raved about how he's a tough cover, that's undeniable. So if you put some good defensive and rebounding players around him, you would see the success of this team rise exponentially.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:16 PM   #27
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

He's still right that its the most successful combo. The only real examples of that not being the case is this years Mavericks and the Pistons team a few years ago.

I can't speak for Q but I'm sure he never thought it was impossible, just improbable.

But you are right about Bargnani being a different player if he had the right people surrounding him. I don't think he'd be able to lead a team still, but that's obviously left up for debate/a wait and see scenario. We won't know until/unless he's put in that situation.
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

Dirk has evolved from a few years ago. He also can rebound and can shoot in the clutch. He drives even. He's not your conventional PF but he does all the normal PF can do plus more.
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:57 PM   #29
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

Comparing Nowitski to Bargnani is comparing champagne to cat's piss.
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:59 PM   #30
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Default Re: Dirk just took away Q's MAIN selling point in all his arguments...

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Comparing Nowitski to Bargnani is comparing champagne to cat's piss.

To me, they both smell the same hahaha
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